Apex-i S-AFC NEO
05-05-07, 05:45 PM
#1
Apex-i S-AFC NEO
I have a 97 SC300 5speed and I have just purchased a Boostlogic Stage 1 NA-T kit. I am looking into using an Apex-i S-AFC NEO for my fuel control, but what else would I need for proper tuning of the kit? I know that a full stand alone like the AEM EMS would be ideal, but that is not realistic for me right now. Keep in mind that my initial power goals are modest and I am not looking into doing the headgasket and upping the boost until later. I have done a lot of searching and it seems that everyone has a little different setup and some see certain parts as essential while others see some parts as extra. I've seen people use boost timing products, map ecu's, wide band products, obdII foolers, and a variety of other products. I guess I'm asking if I install the turbo kit and the afc neo will that be enough to get a good and clean tune for a street application daily driver? Thanks in advance.
05-06-07, 02:09 AM
#3
Thanks $C300 I'll look closer into the comparisons between the two. Anyone else have any other helpful advise especially concerning what I'll need in addition to the fuel controller to get a good tune on the BL stage 1 kit? I am hoping to get it all installed and tuned in the next couple weeks. Thanks....
05-06-07, 02:57 AM
#4
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Thanks $C300 I'll look closer into the comparisons between the two. Anyone else have any other helpful advise especially concerning what I'll need in addition to the fuel controller to get a good tune on the BL stage 1 kit? I am hoping to get it all installed and tuned in the next couple weeks. Thanks....
You really should consider larger injectors .
Most that go with the SAFC go with 440cc injectors , and LS MAF. You should also get a wideband for monitoring A/F and tuning .
05-06-07, 05:14 AM
#5
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Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just japan, but no one tunes with a safc. Seeing how the maps are small, control is very limted, and it's fuel ONLY (not timing, injector pulses, etc) I've used a Safc and even set them up for friends, but this is on stock turbo, stock injector cars. I could be wrong, but the piggyback fuel system was meant to squeeze out a tad more power off of stock settings, not tune a NA to a turbo...
05-06-07, 07:53 AM
#6
Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just japan, but no one tunes with a safc. Seeing how the maps are small, control is very limted, and it's fuel ONLY (not timing, injector pulses, etc) I've used a Safc and even set them up for friends, but this is on stock turbo, stock injector cars. I could be wrong, but the piggyback fuel system was meant to squeeze out a tad more power off of stock settings, not tune a NA to a turbo...
the nice thing about toyota and lexus' for the most part is that they don't care if there is air being pressurized... they use a similar setup to stock turbo'd mitsubishi's, and all they really care about is air flow, and how much fuel to add for the additional airflow... as far as timing is concerned, they don't control it, but, the stock ECU sees additional airflow and pulls timing to compensate - until a certain airflow limit is reached, the stock ecu doesn't really care, it just follows its map...
05-06-07, 09:35 AM
#7
I will be having a shop install the kit due tothe fact that I don't have the space or time to do it myself. I thought about going with injectors initially as well, but after some reading I was under the impression that it wasn't necessary until later because even if there is more air flow (needing more fuel) the SAFC tune would compensate with a higher pressure of fuel funning through the stock injectors to get the same result as changing the injectors out. Am I wrong in my thinking? One more thing, would the addition of a wideband benefit my tuning by being able to closely watch the A/F during SAFC tuning?
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05-06-07, 09:54 AM
#8
I will be having a shop install the kit due tothe fact that I don't have the space or time to do it myself. I thought about going with injectors initially as well, but after some reading I was under the impression that it wasn't necessary until later because even if there is more air flow (needing more fuel) the SAFC tune would compensate with a higher pressure of fuel funning through the stock injectors to get the same result as changing the injectors out. Am I wrong in my thinking? One more thing, would the addition of a wideband benefit my tuning by being able to closely watch the A/F during SAFC tuning?
all an AFC does is fool the factory ECU into thinking there is more or less airflow than there really is...
if you want it leaner, it tells the ecu there is less air going into the engine than there really is, so the ecu takes some fuel out of the equation by reducing the injector pulse width (the amount of time the injector is open)
05-06-07, 11:19 AM
#9
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SAFC's can cause timing advance WITHOUT you even knowing it. If you use bigger injectors w/SAFC, you will be pulling airflow out. Airflow tables in the stock ecu are setup so that when you pull airflow out, you're actually ADVANCING the timing. Now that's not to say I'm anti-SAFC. Not at all. I've made over 600whp with one, and it was totally reliable, but there are still certain things to look out for.
05-06-07, 11:30 AM
#10
SAFC's can cause timing advance WITHOUT you even knowing it. If you use bigger injectors w/SAFC, you will be pulling airflow out. Airflow tables in the stock ecu are setup so that when you pull airflow out, you're actually ADVANCING the timing. Now that's not to say I'm anti-SAFC. Not at all. I've made over 600whp with one, and it was totally reliable, but there are still certain things to look out for.
just something to keep in mind...
I am definitely pro- (AEM, E-manage, etc), but, like you, the AFC definitely works too...
05-06-07, 06:04 PM
#12
SAFC's can cause timing advance WITHOUT you even knowing it. If you use bigger injectors w/SAFC, you will be pulling airflow out. Airflow tables in the stock ecu are setup so that when you pull airflow out, you're actually ADVANCING the timing. Now that's not to say I'm anti-SAFC. Not at all. I've made over 600whp with one, and it was totally reliable, but there are still certain things to look out for.
Thank you to everyone who added to the thread.
05-06-07, 06:13 PM
#13
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I will be having a shop install the kit due tothe fact that I don't have the space or time to do it myself. I thought about going with injectors initially as well, but after some reading I was under the impression that it wasn't necessary until later because even if there is more air flow (needing more fuel) the SAFC tune would compensate with a higher pressure of fuel funning through the stock injectors to get the same result as changing the injectors out. Am I wrong in my thinking? One more thing, would the addition of a wideband benefit my tuning by being able to closely watch the A/F during SAFC tuning?
Ive heard only positive feedback on the BL kit ... But what is the expected power level of the BL stage 1 ? I was thinking about 350 @ low boost? The injectors are not 100% necessary if you have pretty conservative power goals. And keep boost level low. But your definately gonna come close to maxing out those stock injectors @ 350.
Injectors are definately recommended . And a must if you go any higher than 325-350HP really.
If you can only do/afford 1 thing. I would say a wideband is a must regardless .
Otherwise how will you know how much fuel to +/- ? And without 1 theres no way to know for sure if the changes you've made are safe.
05-06-07, 06:39 PM
#14
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I was curious so i went to the BL website . For info on the stage 1 .
BL claims upwards of 300hp @ 7psi. So i see where your coming from on the lack of necessity on larger injectors.
Assuming your stock injectors are healthy they should be able to handle the load .
Heres the listing from the BL site:
Boost Logic Stage I NA-Turbo Kit
Boost Logic Front Mount Intercooler Install Guide
This kit contains everything you need to convert your Non Turbo MKIV Supra or SC300 into a turbo charged sleeper. The Stage I Kit enables you to make upwards of 300RWHP at 7psi.
List of parts included:
Boost Logic Ceramic Heat Coated 321SS Tubular Manifold 1 5/8” Tubing and 1/2” Thick 321SS Flanges (Turbo’s with a 4” inlet clears the distributor. Manifold fits a turbo up to a T76)
T61 .58A/R Ptrim Turbo w/ T4 flange
HKS 40mm Wastegate
3” SS304 Polished Downpipe w/ Flex Joint
3” SS304 Polished Midpipe
SS304 Polished Dump Tube
3” Polished Aluminum Intake Pipe
Boost Logic 750HP Front Mount Intercooler Kit
2.5" Mandrel Bent Aluminum Intercooler Piping
4 Ply Silicone Couplings
Stainless Steel Hose Clamps
Boost Logic NA-T SS Braided Oil Feed and Return Kit w/ Aeroquip fittings
3” K&N Filter
K&N Breathers
Walbro GSS341 255HP Fuel Pump w/ Install Kit
All necessary clamps and bolts for installation
Optional Upgrades
Polishing Compressor Housing ($125)
4" Intake, 4" Filter, and T04S Upgrade ($300 )
BL claims upwards of 300hp @ 7psi. So i see where your coming from on the lack of necessity on larger injectors.
Assuming your stock injectors are healthy they should be able to handle the load .
Heres the listing from the BL site:
Boost Logic Stage I NA-Turbo Kit
Boost Logic Front Mount Intercooler Install Guide
This kit contains everything you need to convert your Non Turbo MKIV Supra or SC300 into a turbo charged sleeper. The Stage I Kit enables you to make upwards of 300RWHP at 7psi.
List of parts included:
Boost Logic Ceramic Heat Coated 321SS Tubular Manifold 1 5/8” Tubing and 1/2” Thick 321SS Flanges (Turbo’s with a 4” inlet clears the distributor. Manifold fits a turbo up to a T76)
T61 .58A/R Ptrim Turbo w/ T4 flange
HKS 40mm Wastegate
3” SS304 Polished Downpipe w/ Flex Joint
3” SS304 Polished Midpipe
SS304 Polished Dump Tube
3” Polished Aluminum Intake Pipe
Boost Logic 750HP Front Mount Intercooler Kit
2.5" Mandrel Bent Aluminum Intercooler Piping
4 Ply Silicone Couplings
Stainless Steel Hose Clamps
Boost Logic NA-T SS Braided Oil Feed and Return Kit w/ Aeroquip fittings
3” K&N Filter
K&N Breathers
Walbro GSS341 255HP Fuel Pump w/ Install Kit
All necessary clamps and bolts for installation
Optional Upgrades
Polishing Compressor Housing ($125)
4" Intake, 4" Filter, and T04S Upgrade ($300 )
05-08-07, 01:26 AM
#15
Ok, so I'd still need a wideband even if the dyno has a lambda reader? I think I'm content with sticking with the stock injectors for the time being, so I'll be picking up an S-AFC II or NEO this week and hopefully that will be sufficient in getting a nice tune for good power and smooth driveability. I heard the S-AFC models can also compensate for a blow off that vents to the atmoshphere, so hopefully that will go well also since I have an HKS SSQV to add to the BL stage 1 kit.