CLRH2O

It is to my understanding that my SC400's engine is an aluminum block engine. And that "ethylene glycol" (A colorless syrupy alcohol, HOCH2CH2OH, used as an antifreeze in some mechanical cooling and heating systems) is NOT to be used with aluminum metal.

Am I correct that the reason for this is that HOCH2CH2OH (or Green / Ethylene Glycol) will react with the Aluminum metal creating a corrosive chemical that will break down the seals and gaskets (and potentially the hoses as well) within the cooling system components / paths of our engines?

I also have to specify that I have the 1993 1UZ-FE 4.0L V-8 in my SC400. So that is the motor I'm asking in direct about - although in general I'd have to guess this question applies to all aluminum block engines in much the same way.

Furthermore and this is really the main question I need answered - what effect, if any, will the mixture of Ethylene Glycol and the Toyota Red coolant made for our aluminum blocked 1UZ-FE engines have if the current "Ethylene Glycol" (green) fluid that I found in my recently purchased SC400 is not ENTIRELY flushed out of of the system during the replacement of my currently bursted radiator?

I'm looking for SPECIFIC information on this from (wouldn't this be cherry) near scientist level heads on the subject that might hopefully inhabit Club Lexus.....

Any chance I'll get lucky on the answers?

Lexmex

Don't mix the green and red...you get something close to jello. I haven't found anything better (or even safer) to use than the Toyota Red in my RX300, though some dealers carry the pre-mixed Toyota Pink (50% coolant/50% water). I would also recommend one bottle of Redline WaterWetter, works even better on older vehicles.

Gibenstein

I run water and water wetter LOL. But then again I live in Texas and it never gets below freezing so I dont have to worry about it freezing.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Green coolant doesn't have any adverse problems with aluminum...

In fact, it doesn't do anything red doesn't do or vice-versa...

You definitely don't want to mix the two - more because you can't tell what color it's supposed to be when/if you ever check it, but from a reliability standpoint, it won't matter.

Green coolant has been used for many many years in cars with aluminum heads and blocks with absolutely no adverse affects. It does not do any harm.

The only coolant out there to stay away from is dexcool, or it's derivatives - this stuff is nasty. It eats away at plastics like nobody's business, and I would only ever run it in a chevy car (factory fill), and then I'd only run it until the factory warranty is up, at which time I'd switch straight to good ol' green coolant... (do a search on the web for intake manifold gasket leaks chevy) - you'll see about 75% of Chevy 3.X liter cars with intake manifold gaskets leaking, and this has been blamed on both bad design of the gasket, and the fact that dexcool eats away at it...

I've been in the automotive service business a long time, and this is my direct experience, which, was backed up to the "t" by a recent tech article in one of our monthly tech updates...

If any, the reason normal coolants do not react with aluminum (even if the base material ethylene glycol is reactive, is because of the additives in the coolant) - here's an excerpt:

Corrosion Inhibitors
Because coolant is in constant contact with the metal parts of the engine and radiator, some type of corrosion inhibitors must be used in the antifreeze to protect all metal surfaces from electrolysis. That includes cast iron, steel, aluminum, brass, copper and lead solder.

Most conventional antifreezes formulated for the North American market, whether green or yellow in color, contain inorganic salts of borate, phosphate and silicate to prevent rust and corrosion. The additives create an alkaline coolant mixture that typically tests at about 10.5 on a pH scale. The silicates form a protective coating on metal surfaces, and are especially good at protecting aluminum.

another excerpt: When refilling a late model GM vehicle that was factory-filled with Dex-Cool, you have to decide what type of coolant to use. According to GM, Dex-Cool is the only acceptable coolant. But once the vehicle is out of warranty, there's no reason why you can't use another brand of OAT coolant or a conventional EG or PG coolant, say the makers of these products.

(both taken from: http://www.babcox.com/editorial/tr/tr110046.htm)

last edit, I promise -

toyota red is actually ethylene glycol, but it doesn't contain silicates, and is dyed red...

CLRH2O

Thank you Thank you - much good info. I'm surprised to find out that the Toyota Red coolant is also an "ethylene glycol" based coolant. I did not know that. You mention that it does not contain Silicates however - what does that mean overall? I ask this specifically because the info from your post was quoted saying: "The silicates form a protective coating on metal surfaces, and are especially good at protecting aluminum" when it was talking about the standard "green" style coolants.

And to find that it's the additives which make these coolants additionally help resist corrosion (apparently from the electric charges associated with grounding to the block and obviously the fact that 12V electricity is found all over the top end of the block and head it's self I'm sure) due to electrolysis is another "Ah Ha". I hadn't thought of that part of the equation.

What is "Water Wetter" and does it's chemical make up create any concerns with it's mixture in Toyota Red (or even the green OTC) over a long period of time in the 1UZ-FE? I'd have to guess that it doesn't as I cant seem to find any bad words about it on the boards here with a search..... but I also didn't see anything about what exactly it was either (A google search might just do the trick though).

Last thing - how many flushes using the "WARM" method should it take (WITHOUT using a flushing solvent like the "Prestone Super Flush") with steam distilled water to remove ALLLLL of the green before filling with Red do you think? And how many gallons each flush? Fill the system completely each time - or only partial fills each flush round?

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

The way I flush coolant may be a little differently than everyone else, but I find it works great (when I'm not at the shop where I can do it using a real flush machine - sometimes I'm too busy to do stuff while at the shop)

Anyways, I buy a new thermostat, and the flush chemicals - I like to make sure it's done right...

Car must be cool -
1. Empty all existing coolant using radiator drain plug into storage container
2. Pull off thermostat housing - it's 2 or 3 easy bolts, and remove thermostat
3. Disconnect lower radiator hose from radiator
4. Use garden hose and flush radiator and engine until 100% clear water comes out of both.
5. Reattach lower radiator hose
6. Reinstall the original thermostat and housing
7. Fill radiator with flush chemicals and normal hose water
8. Roll down car windows, start car, turn heat on high
9. Let car get to operating temperature and idle for 10 minutes - it wouldn't hurt to drive it around the block and get it up to real operating temperatures
10. Park car, let cool down entirely (the last thing we want is a cracked alum. block)
11. When cool, disconnect lower radiator hose and remove thermostat again
12. Flush with hose water again to get the chemicals out.
13. Flush with distilled water to get most of the hose water out.
14. Reinstall lower radiator hose
15. Install new thermostat and upper housing
16. Fill with proper portions of antifreeze (green or red only, do NOT use dexcool or other extended life antifreeze)
17. top off as necessary to get all air out of system - run car while warming up without radiator cap until coolant is circulating (thermostat opens), and continue adding coolant / distilled water mix until full...

Watch coolant level for a couple days to ensure all air was out of system...

Lexmex

WaterWetter reduces surface tension, this video from Redline explains it very well, http://www.redlineoil.com/products_c...coolantFlash=1

I don't know personally issues with the 1UZ-FE, but I have seen other SC owners on CL using it. Never heard a negative thing about this product.

Lex Luthor

Just had a couple thoughts....
1. The Boric Acid has the corrosive effect if I remember correctly, not the Ethylene Glycol, which is what makes your neighbour's pet want to drink it mitsuguy I do concede that traditional coolant has been used in cars w/ alum blocks and heads for years (whereas Dexcool has apparently caused some problems).
2. The Toyota Red is a lower pH organic acid antifreeze, whereas the green is a mineral acid with phosphates, borates, and silicates.

bigmalik00

he is right. Make sure you use a Toyota thermostat....