Need advice on oil for my new SC430
 

Just purchase my new SC430 and now have 600 miles on it. I pamper my cars and change my own oil more often than factory recommendation - every 3K miles, the first one at 1K. The manual calls for 5W30 and it even says that if you use 10W30 to switch to the lighter oil asap. The dealers in Arizona said they use 10W30 due to the heat but I've always used 5W30 on my ES. I want to make sure I use the CORRECT grade. I keep my cars for a long time and intend to do so with the SC. Any advice from you guys out there? Thank much!:)

go with what you know.

I usually use 5W-30 until 75k miles, then kick it up to 10W-30 (high mileage formulation).
But then again, I am in New England.

steviej

Here's what the Lexus engineers recommend:
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430a.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430c.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430b.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/oilfilD3.JPG

Go to this site and ask the experts www.bobistheoilguy.com Personally I use Mobil 1 10w30 year round in Toyota V8, (and I live in Missouri) it has shown that it does a better job in used oil analysis than Mobil 1 5w30. If you are in AZ I would use the Mobil 1 10w30 at 5000 mile OCI. After you do your early short interval changes. Like you, I like to do one at 1000 miles and then again at 3000 and then switch to the synthetic at 5000 and do 5000 OCI from that point on. Good luck nice car.

PS if the dealer says they use 10w30 in your VVT equiped V8 I would think that it would be fine to use the Mobil 1 10w30 since it stays in grade longer than the Mobil 1 5w30.

Experts? They are all American specialty lube salesmen who's goal is to steer owners away from factory original oils, filters and fluids in order to get them to use their expensive specialty products instead. That's how they put food on the table for their families. So far from educating the public, they dumb down the public. For example, you'd never get them to admit that the vast majority of the hundreds of Toyota owners that have gone 450-650,000 miles without an engine overhaul used ordinary dinosaur oil and never used specialty filters, specialty additives or spent a dime on oil analysis.

Got to disagree, read the UOA section for your type of engine so you can see what oils give the best used oil analysis. All sponsors are IDed by their avatar. If you go on the site you can learn a lot. I've alway used OEM filters on my vehicles and no one on the site encouraged me or anyone else agains't using OEM filters. No manufacture makes their own oil. I also own a Nissan 350Z and my dealer that is a combination Chrysler/Nissan dealer uses Mopar oil (which is relabeled Mobil drive clean) which is not the best oil in the world. If I wanted to run dino oil in my Z I would run Castrol GTX. But from looking at used oil analysis on other Nissan 3.5 engines I could determine that Mobil 1 10w30 was the best oil that is easy to find and not that expensive to buy for my Z. The same is true for my Toyota 4.7 V8. I will alway use OEM filters on both vehicles. To address the "American specialty lube salesmen" statement you are off course on that one too. The big buzz right now is about the GC German Castrol that is being sold at AutoZone, but you have to check the bottles on the back to make sure it states "German" and it only comes in 0w30 but performs based on used oil analysis better than any other 0w30/5w30 synthetic and holds it 30 weight. I'm not saying that you can't use about any SL rated oil in the recommended weight and change it every 3K miles and not get excellant service, but if I want the best for my high $$$ vehicle I want to learn more about the life blood of the engine and pick the best oil. JMHO

Saber I hope you don't think this is some "special" oil? It is "SL" rated API approved with the donut, dino oil. Any "SL" rated API approved with the donut, dino oil can be run in that engine with the same results. If Toyota had a special oil that you "had" to use in your engine for your warranty, then Toyota would be required to provide it for free. Example my Toyota has a 5 speed automatic, for 2004 Toyota requires that only WS ATF fluid can be used in this transmission. Toyota is the only place you can get this fluid. The only reason Toyota does not have to provide it for free for normal transmission service is because it is a lifetime fill fluid.

PS - I bet if you called several Lexus dealers you would find that most don't use "Toyota" oil. Example the Lexus dealer in Springfield Missouri uses Castrol GTX :)

This is exactly what I mean by dumbing down. The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA. But Toyota/Honda/Nissan never claimed to make their own oils and fluids; they claimed to select the base stocks and design the additive package and then contract with companies like Mobil to formulate and package the stuff to THEIR standards. So THEIR products are indeed unique and special. Same deal with other things like belts, hoses and plastics. The Asian car companies make the decisions about the chemistry and other characteristics and then often contract USA companies to make the products to their specs, not the usual low quality Pep Boys, NAPA American car specs.

Ok, I realize you all are having quite the heated debate, but I have a question that nobody seems to want to answer. Since you all seem to be very knowledgeable on automotive oil and the likes, would you mind taking a look at this link: Good Oil Filters?

Since the don't make the good OEM filter, I'm wanting to find alternatives. I would greatly appreciate your opinion.

Thanks

I agree that it is alway good to use OEM parts (Toyota's are of the highest quality). I alway use OEM parts and some OEM fluids (like Antifreeze) and on my 2004 I would need to use Toyota WS ATF which my owners manual spec's and there are no other alternatives at this time. But when it comes to Motor oil, If you will check your owners manual, it will state that you should use a certain spec. oil that is API approved and shows the API donut. If you had to use only Toyota oil then while you are under warranty Toyota would have to provide that oil to you free of charge per government legislation. Auto manufactures normally recommend a lighter weight oil for fuel savings, not engine protection. With the VVT engine I would be even more inclined to use a good synthetic that stays in grade versus the Toyota dino oil, since the oil staying in grade under all driving conditions is critical to the VVT performing correctly.

Sweets not knowing anything about these filters, I would be inclined to go with Nipon or Denso since they are suppliers to Toyota. You might try www.bobistheoilguy.com I know they have done a bunch of research on filters, that does not mean you need to take any recommendations but it will give you more knowledge to base your decision.

Paul...is that you?

Need advice on oil for my new SC430
 

Saber writes:


snip . . . . "The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA."

In general, I agree with you.

But, to be more accurate OEM Toyota/Lexus parts aren't made of unobtainium, and are often contracted out to other manufacturers. Often, they are available at non Toyota sources, as long as you know what you are looking for and understand the specifications. OEM parts are made to minimum quality standards, not the maximum. Higher quality is often available, at a premium price, if the buyer prefers, but, the Toyota engineers point is that the products they specify, are, in their opinion, the minimum level of quality needed to provide acceptable Toyota/Lexus performance and longevity.

As far as BITOG, I agree with you. The site has some good information but is generally populated by those who fail to realize that the engineers who design and build cars have all ready done all those tests hundreds of times and their results are documented in the owners manuals, factory service manuals, technical service bulletins, industry accepted specifications and other formal publications. (should BITOG members decide to read them) Do engineers make mistakes? Sure, everyone does. Are there better, higher quality products (oils) thant the OEM parts? Yes. But at a much higher premium price which is mostly, IMO, sales commisions/profit and provides little if any documentable long term performance increase when the vehicles are used for their intended applications.

It makes me laugh when an oil analysis "expert" decides one oil is better than another because the iron, copper, chromium, lead, or aluminum content in the super duper lube is 12 ppm (parts per million) while the factory lube shows 24 ppm at the same mileage. Just how does an additional 12 ppm extrapolate to long term wear over a 12 year 120,000 mile wear interval? That's where the dumbing down begins. Less particulate means less wear doesn't it? Sure, it does. But the difference over time is often meaningless to those who really understand the data! Now 12 ppm vs. 120 ppm, along with an oil filter loaded with metallic particulate, that's a different thing. The oil analyst usually never even looks at the contents of the oil filter.

How does the oil analysis expert account for the biggest variable factors: the driver, how, and where the vehicle is driven. Often they don't even have that information nor do they have multiple base references of the specific oil sample used in similar applications. Often it's just one data point on a chart that tells you nothing without additional long term trend data. (It's nice info to sit around drink beer and gossip about though)

Anyway, if you prefer to ignore your owners manual, insist on being anal about oil, and have an extra $50 to burn, buy the super duper ($8.00/qt.) synthetic goup V ester based specialty oils, and have them analysed at every change interval.

I'm thinking about starting my own site "Chumley is the lug nut/bolt guy.'" or CITLN/BG. Every time we have our tires changed or rotated, we'll send the lug nuts/bolts out to a stress lab for strength analysis testing, magna flux crack testing and visual inspection. After all, we wouldn't want them snapping, stripping, splitting, or coming loose in use now would we? I'm sure the engineers had no clue what they were doing when they designed and specified the lug nuts/bolts either! <laughing> Enjoy your cars.

Chumley

Re: Need advice on oil for my new SC430
 

Agreed. Oil analysis is merely a clever marketing tool the Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen use to subliminally dumb down the general public into believing there are major differences between oils which translate into substantial differences in engine life.

Subliminal impression marketing is used extensively by the Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen in other ways as well. For example, I once showed one salesmen a photo of the incredibly clean valvetrain of a Corolla engine maintained with Mobil 1 synthetic oil http://www.saber.net/~monarch/molakule.jpg Then the salesman pointed out the photo didn't show whether or not the piston rings packs were also clean - so a $25,00 a bottle specialty engine cleaner additive like Auto-Rx should still be used in this immaculate engine!

I don't know what all the fuss is about with using the expensive OEM parts. To me, it's just a personsal preference and a waste of money in the long run. Walmart carries decent parts, including their oils and filters. People might laugh, but I can't see any difference between using the super-tech products and the name brands that charge much more. Oil is oil and the engine runs fine as long as it's changed every 3000 miles or so. Why pay all the extra for the dealer parts? These are Toyotas that are designed to go a quarter million miles no matter what oil is being utilized.

Well it's a matter of risk. When you use a cheap 89 cent oil like Walmart Supertech there is some risk of significantly increased engine wear because it doesn't have the specially selected base stocks and additive package of genuine Toyota Motor Oil. And there is more risk that the factory that makes Supertech does not have as good quality control as the factory that makes the Toyota Oil. These risks are likely small since I am unaware of any Toyota that ended up in the junkyard because of oil quality problems (if it was changed every 3 month / 3000 miles) . However, the $5 extra cost of an oil change with the Toyota oil is worth it for some owners from a peace of mind standpoint. And the extra reliability and durability features of genuine Toyota air http://www.saber.net/~monarch/fram.jpg and oil filters minimize the chances of abrasives entering the engine and accelerating engine wear.

In other cases the risk of damage from aftermarket fluids and parts is much greater. Like in the case of antifreeze. and thermostats. Countless thousands of Toyotas have overheating problems and associated catastrophic engine damage after 10 years or 150,000 -250,000 miles due to cooling system corrosion and blockages caused by the use of aftermarket antifreeze. And stuck closed aftermarket thermostats have ruined engines in a matter of minutes. And stuck open thermostats have greatly accelerated engine wear due to the engine running too cold in temperature and too rich of a fuel mixture. Aftermarket thermostats are half as heavy as a genuine Toyota thermostat because they are so cheaply made.