CACressida

iTrader: (1)

http://toyota.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/t...&tab=advantage

Me being bored, I decided to compare the LC, G500, and the GX. The LC has more ground clearance than the two, more hp, more weight, more everything. Its just more and in my opinion worth every penny. The only advantages to the G is it has shorter overhangs and is triple locked. Other than that, it has terrible gas mileage compared to, get this, the LandCruiser. But then again, if your in the market to buy either one of these 3, you better afford the gas

tigmd99

Akoch, well, my G500 weighs as much as your LX470...so, if my G's weight works against it off-road (in some situations, i agree), then would it not have the same effect on your LX470??!!

In 2010, Mercedes is rumored to end G's civilian production. Military production will continue till 2025.

tigmd99

Yeah, but remember how big the G is compared to the new TLC...it's tiny compared to the TLC, but it nearly matches it in weight...what does that tell you about the G's overengineering? Hell, it nearly matches it in cargo capacity and beats GX! Yet, it's smaller than your FJ!

MB stats on the G are decades old!

Here is my post on another forum:

As you may know, i have always wondered where Mercedes get their stats on our 463 G-wagens. The MBUSA brochure lists ground clearance to be 8.3" and angles of 36/27 (approach/departure). Recently, i was looking at an old picture that we all have seen: (SEE BELOW)

Well, if you look at the left lower corner of the pic, then you will see that the specs for the pic is for a G with 255/65/16 (29") tires at MAX WEIGHT. If you convert mm to inches, then you will see that MBUSA measurements are very close (if not exactly the same!!) as these measurements.

So, current factory G-wagens come with 265/60/18 tires which is equal to 31" tires. So, if you were to add 1" to the height (due to larger stock tires on G500s) of the G in the picture above, then you will come up with a ground clearance that is much closer to what i actually measured on my G...9.3" inches (i measured 9.4").

In addition, stock G's approach/breakover/departure angles will be around 36/25/31. This is confirmed in my off-roading where i felt that my departure angle is significantly better than 27" degrees quoted in the brochure.

So, basically, Mercedes messed up on the stats in the MBUSA brochure & website. MB does not really care about G500's off-road stats...it is clearly not MB's priority.

G-wagen is MB's bas**** stepchild!

AKoch

Thai,

yes - the weight works against the LX470 as well, very much so. And I am sure you experienced where it happens the most: dirt, sand, rivers with mud, snow. And getting a good tug is also harder - often you need a bigger and heavier vehicle, which you don't always have with you. And I admit - I do get stuck.

What works for the LX, is that it has slightly bigger tires and slightly larger patch than the G. At least my 98 had 285x70x15 (or 80?) if my memory serves me. My 98 also had central and rear locker stock.

tigmd99

Didn't your '98 have 16" rims?? That was the stock rim size.

Actually, nowadays, narrow & tall tires are favored in off-roading, not wide tires. You may want to read this: http://www.expeditionswest.com/resea...tion_rev1.html

And the fact that your LX is much much wider and longer makes it harder to fit into tight off-roading spaces/trails and leaves it more susceptible to trail damage. IMHO, this size difference is much more of an issue than tire contact patch. The G is much easier to fit on tight trails due to it's small boxy design. You can easily see the corners on the G since everything is in sight and you sit very high.

CASANOVA

IMHO, if anyone can or will buy any of these vehicles, gas price and mpg will be least of their worries. .

In regards to off roading capability, I am sure all these three vehicles are on top of the chain, including the Range Rover. Now, it really all depends on the feature and personal preference, which you guys are bringing it up and making great comparisons.

Thai,

Sorry if this may sound a silly question but I got to ask. On the G-wagen can you lock the rear or front diffs without locking the center diff first? I test drove the G-wagen but I did not take it off road ( I doubt that the dealer will allow it) and I did not try engaging the locking diffs to see how it all works.


Spwolf,

Is this for the TLC here in North America? TLC in diesel engine, that will be great to have it here in the U.S.



Just to share my experience:
On the TLC, I went to three dealership in my area to try and test drive the 2007, this was before they release the 2008, and non of them has it in stock and they told me, "we do not keep them in stock since its an expensive vehicle, if you want we can order it or find one for you". How can you buy a vehicle without testing it and seeing it up close? For me, I have to really check it out before spending that much money. This also happened to one dealer for the Lexus, they don't have any in stock for the LX470 and they ask me test drive the GX470 instead, typical sales pitch. Which I did, but not that impressed since it feels too girly for me, IMHO.

tigmd99

No, you need to lock the center diff first...this will turn OFF all electornic aids, including ABS, traction control, and stability control. This is ideal because ABS can be harmful in off-roading. You want to lock up your tires if needed while off-roading.

Sequence of locking: center --> rear --> front. Some guy on MB forum modify so that you can lock the front before the rear. For me, i don't see much point in this. I lock the center 90-95% of the time while off-roading...i lock the rear most of those times. The front locker use is limited, mostly on hilly climbs where i need the extra pull up front.

GatorGreg

You think the GX is too "girly" for you yet you drive an IS?? I find that rather amusing because my mother is now on her 2nd IS. I always think of the IS as the most "girly" of the Lexus vehicles (not that there's anything wrong with that ) followed closely by the ES (my Mom had two of those too ), then the RX. IS-F of course is a different story.

As to the off-roading capabilities of the new TLC, time will tell but IMO the departure angle of only 20 degrees with no air suspension to lift it's *** is not a very good decision on Touota's part

tigmd99

Don't tell Koz that!!

Exactly...20 degrees is pretty limited by off-roading standards. The clearances are not much better than a Jeep Commander or a truck!

CACressida

iTrader: (1)

The G wagon will be dearly missed. Its the only Mercedes I actually respect. Its luxurious, triple locked, dual solid axles, and simply put, BAD ***. I can't believe there replacing it with a GL.

CASANOVA

I did not mean to offend anyone with my remark about the GX470, its just a personal opinion "IMHO". For those who are curiously wondering, the IS350 is for the wife.

GatorG,

Nice offroading pics!


Thai,
Thanks for the great info. Offroading videos were also great.

spwolf

I just came back from training on LC200 in Europe - actually LC200 is superior to LX in off road due to KDSS which is pretty amazing itself. Difference between two are that LC200 (in USA and version in Europe) use KDSS while LX uses AHC. Departure angles are exactly the same as in LC100 and LX570 (when in high position). I wonder if there i some confusion in US Toyota site since actual etry/departure angles are 32/24 and they are 30/20 for LC/LX with AHC in normal position (not high). But due to KDSS wheel articulation is 105mm better than LC100 which makes real difference when offroading.

We were driven around by Paris-Dakar driver and WRC driver and they liked the car a lot - especially KDSS system. Being thrown around off road and rally coarse by professional drivers was actually a lot of fun.

Crawl/DAC are pretty smart controls for normal users, you can actually override/help them and they will be working up until 10/25kmh. Both controls work very smoothly and are very easy to engage. We were driven with them on for 3 hrs straight and they still worked :-).

I also drove new V8 diesel you guys will be getting in few years. It makes LC pretty fast car although for off roading you will still want predictable petrol V8.

There was also an big improvement in on road - and both LC (KDSS) and LX570 . They both drive A LOT better than before, and you can as presented to us by WRC driver, they hug the road nicely and are Very tossable around.

I will make an write up in chat part of the site soon enough... KDSS is pretty darn nice. Oh yeah, automatic multi-terrain ABS is pretty cool too.

tigmd99

In TLC brochure, it clearly states 20 degree departure angle. And since the TLC does not have air suspension, i would imagine that it is very hard to get the angles wrong.

Think of it this way...the wheelbase of the TLC100 and 200 are the same. BUT, the TLC200 has way longer overhangs. The tire size has gone up only a tad, but the long overhangs (front & rear) are very significant. Therefore, there is no way possible physically for the approach/departure angles to be the same as TLC100. The question is where did you get your data from?? Those presenters or from actual Toyota specs.

It would be dissapointing if LX570 angles are the same in high mode.

EDIT: according to this Australian website...the angles are the same as US specs: http://www.zercustoms.com/news/2008-...uiser-200.html

scroll down.

tigmd99

Why is the diesel worst for off-roading?? I would imagine that diesel is a better off-roading engine...because it creates more grunt at lower RPMs.

spwolf

from team of toyota officials/engineers and updated brochures.

LC200 in comes with two suspension flavours - with KDSS having better angles, where the difference and confusion comes from.