danmm7

Hello All!

I am looking to by a used LX470 (of GX470) for winter trips to the mountains. We have a cabin up there and we love snow sports. Truck will not be used as a daily driver (maybe occasionally) but when we take it to a trip in the snow... we'll be 250-300miles away from home. It must be reliable, since i don't want to be stuck on the side of the road, in freezing weather and having my 2yr/old daughter in the car.

I am considering a few used LX470 options with good maintenance history and close to 100k miles on the odometer. I found a couple of very nice examples that have 106k and 118k miles, both were regularly maintained at local Lexus dealer, clean history and decent price (18-19k). Both SUVs are 2002 model. I also found a couple 2003/2004 with close to 120k miles each, with decent records.

This is where the questions come:

I know that there were some changes/improvements introduced in 2003 but i am trying to figure out how important/significant they were and if i really want to go for 2003-2004 model.

1. I know that pre-2003 models come with 4-speed AT. The newer ones come with the 5-speed AT. How reliable is the 4-speed unit? Is the 5-speed much better/smoother when compared to the 4-sp? How does the 4-speed vs 5-speed AT translates into MPG?

2. Other mechanical changes that came in 2003 that i should be aware of? What else was improved that i must consider, especially when it comes to reliability? Any key weak areas in the pre-2003 that were fixed in 2003? Leaks? Vibrations?

3. Comfort improvements in the newer 2003+ models if any? Is the 2003+ better riding and more quiet than the older generation? What about interior materials? Better? Same?

4. Realistic expected MPG with 2002 vs 2003+?


P.S. Also looking at some 2004-2005 GX470, but this is a whole different topic.


Thanks!
Dan

RobRed

1. Both the 4 and 5 speed are excellent reliable units so no consideration there. The 5 speed is more versatile so I would lean that way.

2. There are no significant mechanical changes (other than trans) between 2002 and 2003.

3. Materials and comfort is the same. 2003 gets a slight face lift in the dash and center stack.

4. there really wasn't an improvement between 2002-2003. 13-16mpg rated.

For more detail on this check out http://forum.tlcfaq.com/viewforum.php?f=30 currently the first item is a differences grid for model years. you'll need a login but its quick to set one up.

V8_Fan

The 5spd has a much lower first gear, so if you ever go with larger than OEM sized tires (very limited selection in the OEM size, most are 1" larger), it makes a difference. Also, if you load up the vehicle, the lower first gear is beneficial. Stay away from 2000's and some 2001's..they've had tranny failures from some defective part (mostly 2000's). The 2002's and earlier have 16" wheels, which look comparatively small compared to the 18's on the 2003+, but there are more tire choices for 16" wheels vs. 18's. Other than that, mechanical changes are small. The 2003's have a rebiased brake system (more pressure to the front, less to the rear; 2002's have more pressure to the rear, causing premature rear pad wear). If you go 2003+, try to stick with an Araco-made vehicle. I believe 2005 and earlier are Araco's. There should be a sticker indicating so. On my '03, it's on the PS rear corner of the bottomside of the hood. The '06's have a lot more creaks & groans than the earlier rigs, as they are made by Toyota.

diagtime

everything said so far is correct.
but honestly, just go drive both vehicles. I don't wanna make anybody mad here, but it's hard to imagine you not thinking the 03+ is clearly better. tranny+gearing is a large part of that.

RobRed

As Jim said the 5 speed has a lower first gear BUT the final drive is taller taking some out of that. You can see the gear ratios on the guide I linked to. The 5 speed is great but I would forego (and did) forego the 5 Speed just to avoid factory NAV. 5 speed no NAV would be spectacular. I'm currently working on a system to remove factory nav from vehicles that have it.

The only changes for 2003 I can find in the brakes were the caliper piston diameters, but both front and rear were enlarged a few mm. I cannot find anything related to bias - Jim where did you locate this information? I'm looking at the official Lexus guide to year to year changes

As far as where they are made... I'll quote Beno from 'Mud: "Your body and truck were assembled at the Yoshiwara plant which was formerly owned by ARACO and then was merged with Toyota Auto Body in 2004. Same plant, same workers, new name is all that happened. The chassis are indeed manufactured across town and brought on trucks to Yoshiwara where they are staged and then brought into the plant for assembly."

Here is additional links and VIN info http://tlcfaq.com/main/2012/08/where...cruiser-built/

V8_Fan

IIRC, it was an issue of the JDM Landcruiser Magazine. And I recall it mentioning something about the piston sizes increasing. Also, pre '03 100 owners on ih8mud always report that their rear pads wear much faster than the fronts. I have not seen this pattern at all on my '03.

RobRed

Not saying your wrong just looking to get something technical so I could add it to the model year differences chart.

To my knowledge all of the 100's (ABS equipped USA) are missing the LSPV (load sensing proportioning valve) which means 100's running light (no bumpers or gear) will wear the rears out faster.

V8_Fan

One more thing...the 2003+ have the latch seat system for the 2nd row center and DS. There are also anchor points in the floor behind the 2nd row. Both 2nd and 3rd row seats recline (not sure if that applies to pre 2003's).

As far as LSPV's, I don't know if any of the 100's have them. At least I haven't seen one under my rig (my old 4runner had one, had to micky-mouse with it all the time to adjust the rear braking). I also don't have any issues with the rear pads wearing faster than the fronts, and the only load in the car is a 38 lb boy in a car seat in the 2nd row and a 120 lb woman driving. 3rd row seats have also been removed. It doesn't get much lighter than that.

DarkStar12

Don't forget the newer models (2003+?) have factory bluetooth and side/curtain airbags. Something to consider.

RobRed

Bluetooth came in 2004. Correct on the side curtain option.

LXtiming

At 100K miles, the first thing you should do is install a new timing belt kit. If this goes, you will be stranded, no doubt about it.

watch37

I was faced with the same issue a year ago, whether to buy a pre-2003 vs 2003 LX, as a weekend hauler and long trip vehicle. We are a family of four and didn't want a brake down on our road trips, especially while heading into the Smokies on a frigid December night. After months of research, I was convinced the 203 would be the smarter buy between the two. 5 speed tranny, side airbags, slightly improved cosmetics inside and out, standard electronic braking, and variable gear steering, for the 2003. In the end, we decided to bite the bullet and pay up for a used 2009. Main reason was the lack of power in the pre 2006 versions, plus wanted extra space of the redesigned LX and new tech.