upgrading to later dash with Nav
11-18-04, 05:19 PM
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upgrading to later dash with Nav
has anyone figured out how to upgrade the dash of older 470's, like my 1999, with a newer 2004ish top dash to add the factory nav. The dash all looks the same with min changes...I know folks asked this same issue a few years ago?
11-18-04, 10:25 PM
#2
This is not impossible because few things are impossible but i would not even think about doing it. It can be done but you are talking about major modifications and alot of money. I would say that it would cost you 10,000 and up to do this retrofit. Even upgrading to the 01-02 style nav would be expensive but the 03-05 is almost crazy. If you really want nav buy an aftermarket eclipse or just get a new LX in my opinion. You will save money and be happier in the long run.
11-19-04, 08:36 AM
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10K is more than I guessed
I was thinking $5K...my truck has 50K on it and I bought it with cash 4yr back. $5+K repair is fully deductable and I do not have to go out and pay $70K for another new one???
I love the truck -- but my brother just bought a 02 Expedition with sprot susp and muf on 30K miles for a little of $15K and it drives pretty great for $15K. It is getting harder and harder for me to justify getting a new LDCruiser or 470.
For $70K it should come with the dual AVO turbo setup -- that is a truck!
I love the truck -- but my brother just bought a 02 Expedition with sprot susp and muf on 30K miles for a little of $15K and it drives pretty great for $15K. It is getting harder and harder for me to justify getting a new LDCruiser or 470.
For $70K it should come with the dual AVO turbo setup -- that is a truck!
11-20-04, 05:45 PM
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FWIW, forget about the Toyota Navi system. Not becuase it could not be done, but because the Toyota Navi system is a piece of junk!
I have a 2004 and my issues with it are so many that I have given up on it. Here are a few of the problems:
1. The voice activated commands are a joke. Commands are cumbersome and the system fails to recognize them more than 50% of the time! I have decided to give up on this "feature" altogether.
2. System will not let you input new destinations unless you stop the vehicle. Talk about a PIA!
3. Limited number of POI. They do not even say how many POI it has but in my book it is hardly usable.
4. The graphic interface is so poor that it reminds me of computers using DOS from 10-15 years ago.
5. User UNfriendly at its best (intuitive NOT!) Tasks are hidden in the most unlikey places.
6. And last but not least, lousy routing!! (Just yesterday I had to travel to MD and the navi system chose to take me through the middle of downtown DC with literally dozens of stop lights! Needless to say the timing was way off! (My wife did the same trip using another navi system and, appropriately, it took her around the beltway).
I can go on and on about this piece of junk.
You are MUCH better off finding yourself a third party solution. There might be one that can be integrated into your existing dash. If not, consider a stand-alone portable unit like Garmin the 2620 or Magellan. I own a garmin unit that I used one for my 2000 LC and loved it. I still use it with my other vehicles and now have decided to start using it even in my 2004! I can tell you that the Garmin unit walks all over the Toyota navi system. I strongly recommend it.
I do not know who makes Toyota's Navi system, but you can tell that Toyota certainly went the cheap route on these navi systems and it shows! Toyota should be ashame of letting these luxury vehicles out the door with such crappy systems.
So my advise to you is to stay away from Toyota's navi system!
I have a 2004 and my issues with it are so many that I have given up on it. Here are a few of the problems:
1. The voice activated commands are a joke. Commands are cumbersome and the system fails to recognize them more than 50% of the time! I have decided to give up on this "feature" altogether.
2. System will not let you input new destinations unless you stop the vehicle. Talk about a PIA!
3. Limited number of POI. They do not even say how many POI it has but in my book it is hardly usable.
4. The graphic interface is so poor that it reminds me of computers using DOS from 10-15 years ago.
5. User UNfriendly at its best (intuitive NOT!) Tasks are hidden in the most unlikey places.
6. And last but not least, lousy routing!! (Just yesterday I had to travel to MD and the navi system chose to take me through the middle of downtown DC with literally dozens of stop lights! Needless to say the timing was way off! (My wife did the same trip using another navi system and, appropriately, it took her around the beltway).
I can go on and on about this piece of junk.
You are MUCH better off finding yourself a third party solution. There might be one that can be integrated into your existing dash. If not, consider a stand-alone portable unit like Garmin the 2620 or Magellan. I own a garmin unit that I used one for my 2000 LC and loved it. I still use it with my other vehicles and now have decided to start using it even in my 2004! I can tell you that the Garmin unit walks all over the Toyota navi system. I strongly recommend it.
I do not know who makes Toyota's Navi system, but you can tell that Toyota certainly went the cheap route on these navi systems and it shows! Toyota should be ashame of letting these luxury vehicles out the door with such crappy systems.
So my advise to you is to stay away from Toyota's navi system!
11-23-04, 07:10 PM
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Just to add to what i said earlier:
This is what is going on: car companies are NOT in the business of manufacturing GPS equipment. So they have to outsource the navi system to third parties (Alpine, Delphi, Denso and others).
The GPS equipment manufacturing companies are likely to have products with many features, however the car manufacturers are primarily looking for a product that can do the navigation but is not very expensive (they rather keep the profit than passing it on to a third party). So the GPS companies offer them a stripped version of their best products and we (the buyers of the vehicles) are likely not to know any better since we presume that since it came with the car, and it has a big screen and nice colors it has to be best out there. We are being duped!
Certless,
As bsjoiner suggested, find yourself a third party navi system that can be adapted to your vehicle and you will never look back. I know that Pioneer and Kenwood make nice units but not sure how or if they can be adapted to your MY2000.
This is what is going on: car companies are NOT in the business of manufacturing GPS equipment. So they have to outsource the navi system to third parties (Alpine, Delphi, Denso and others).
The GPS equipment manufacturing companies are likely to have products with many features, however the car manufacturers are primarily looking for a product that can do the navigation but is not very expensive (they rather keep the profit than passing it on to a third party). So the GPS companies offer them a stripped version of their best products and we (the buyers of the vehicles) are likely not to know any better since we presume that since it came with the car, and it has a big screen and nice colors it has to be best out there. We are being duped!
Certless,
As bsjoiner suggested, find yourself a third party navi system that can be adapted to your vehicle and you will never look back. I know that Pioneer and Kenwood make nice units but not sure how or if they can be adapted to your MY2000.
11-23-04, 07:21 PM
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nav
thanks all. I just hate piles and really hate them on my car's dash. But I drive around a lot and look at land and need to know where the freeway off ramps are so the nav helps far more than I would ever guess. I will more likely get another new car than add a box to the dash as I passed on the XM radio too for the same reasons.
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11-23-04, 08:43 PM
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I was talking to the dealer yesterday about doing the same thing (adding '04 Nav to my 2000 470), and the guy thought I was out of my gord because of the cost. And that was before I talked to him about retrofitting the LS430's radar/adaptive cruise control! After reading at http://www.eclipse-web.com, there's no way I'd do the factory nav!!
That Eclipse system is friggin' wild... too bad they spread out the features exclusively across the models (one model does nav, another doesn't but has an internal hard drive, another doesn't but allows PC-based audio tuning, etc etc).
Does anyone know some other manufacturers of all-in-one integrated systems like the Fujitsu Ten Eclipse stuff? Something modular and expandable that does audio / video / DVD / Nav / bells / whistles / missles? (=
That Eclipse system is friggin' wild... too bad they spread out the features exclusively across the models (one model does nav, another doesn't but has an internal hard drive, another doesn't but allows PC-based audio tuning, etc etc).
Does anyone know some other manufacturers of all-in-one integrated systems like the Fujitsu Ten Eclipse stuff? Something modular and expandable that does audio / video / DVD / Nav / bells / whistles / missles? (=
11-24-04, 12:38 PM
#9
Originally posted by nicoff
FWIW, forget about the Toyota Navi system. Not becuase it could not be done, but because the Toyota Navi system is a piece of junk!
I have a 2004 and my issues with it are so many that I have given up on it. Here are a few of the problems:
1. The voice activated commands are a joke. Commands are cumbersome and the system fails to recognize them more than 50% of the time! I have decided to give up on this "feature" altogether.
2. System will not let you input new destinations unless you stop the vehicle. Talk about a PIA!
3. Limited number of POI. They do not even say how many POI it has but in my book it is hardly usable.
4. The graphic interface is so poor that it reminds me of computers using DOS from 10-15 years ago.
5. User UNfriendly at its best (intuitive NOT!) Tasks are hidden in the most unlikey places.
6. And last but not least, lousy routing!! (Just yesterday I had to travel to MD and the navi system chose to take me through the middle of downtown DC with literally dozens of stop lights! Needless to say the timing was way off! (My wife did the same trip using another navi system and, appropriately, it took her around the beltway).
I can go on and on about this piece of junk.
You are MUCH better off finding yourself a third party solution. There might be one that can be integrated into your existing dash. If not, consider a stand-alone portable unit like Garmin the 2620 or Magellan. I own a garmin unit that I used one for my 2000 LC and loved it. I still use it with my other vehicles and now have decided to start using it even in my 2004! I can tell you that the Garmin unit walks all over the Toyota navi system. I strongly recommend it.
I do not know who makes Toyota's Navi system, but you can tell that Toyota certainly went the cheap route on these navi systems and it shows! Toyota should be ashame of letting these luxury vehicles out the door with such crappy systems.
So my advise to you is to stay away from Toyota's navi system!
FWIW, forget about the Toyota Navi system. Not becuase it could not be done, but because the Toyota Navi system is a piece of junk!
I have a 2004 and my issues with it are so many that I have given up on it. Here are a few of the problems:
1. The voice activated commands are a joke. Commands are cumbersome and the system fails to recognize them more than 50% of the time! I have decided to give up on this "feature" altogether.
2. System will not let you input new destinations unless you stop the vehicle. Talk about a PIA!
3. Limited number of POI. They do not even say how many POI it has but in my book it is hardly usable.
4. The graphic interface is so poor that it reminds me of computers using DOS from 10-15 years ago.
5. User UNfriendly at its best (intuitive NOT!) Tasks are hidden in the most unlikey places.
6. And last but not least, lousy routing!! (Just yesterday I had to travel to MD and the navi system chose to take me through the middle of downtown DC with literally dozens of stop lights! Needless to say the timing was way off! (My wife did the same trip using another navi system and, appropriately, it took her around the beltway).
I can go on and on about this piece of junk.
You are MUCH better off finding yourself a third party solution. There might be one that can be integrated into your existing dash. If not, consider a stand-alone portable unit like Garmin the 2620 or Magellan. I own a garmin unit that I used one for my 2000 LC and loved it. I still use it with my other vehicles and now have decided to start using it even in my 2004! I can tell you that the Garmin unit walks all over the Toyota navi system. I strongly recommend it.
I do not know who makes Toyota's Navi system, but you can tell that Toyota certainly went the cheap route on these navi systems and it shows! Toyota should be ashame of letting these luxury vehicles out the door with such crappy systems.
So my advise to you is to stay away from Toyota's navi system!
I also have a 2001 Acura TL with Nav (manufactured by Alpine) and I will say that "out of the box" the Acura nav is more intuitive. You can start using it without having to read the directions. I also can program it while in motion, something that I ABSOLUTELY HATE that I can't do with the Toyota nav. I understand the safety reasons for it, but it is annoying as hell when we're on a road trip and I have to pull over so that either my wife or I can enter a destination.
On the positive side, the Toyota nav has a ton more features than the one in my Acura. Keep in mind that the next gen nave offered in the new Acura TLs, MDXs and RLs may be more comparable. Actually I was at the Acura dealer today getting an oil change and looked at the new RL. That NAV is now integrated with the XM system to monitor traffic and reroute you accordingly.
Pretty cool.
11-24-04, 04:05 PM
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Gohawks63,
I test-drove the Acura RL a couple of weeks ago and there you find one fine example of what a well-integrated navi system can do. Voice commands worked like a charm. Fully integrated navi, climate, audio and bluetooh phone system. I was not nearly as impressed with the driving abilities of the RL as I was with the fully-integrated navi/audio/climate/phone system.
As for my criticism of Toyota's navi system, I think that it is high time for Toyota and other car maufacturerers to realize that the bar has been raised and they better come to the plate with a much better system. (Did I say anything about Toyota's bluetooh implementation? I hear there are serious issues with that as well. I will not know until I get my new bluetooh phone so stay tuned). Paying $2k for a navi option in a $60k vehicle and getting something that is outperformed by a $600 unit is just unacceptable in my book.
I test-drove the Acura RL a couple of weeks ago and there you find one fine example of what a well-integrated navi system can do. Voice commands worked like a charm. Fully integrated navi, climate, audio and bluetooh phone system. I was not nearly as impressed with the driving abilities of the RL as I was with the fully-integrated navi/audio/climate/phone system.
As for my criticism of Toyota's navi system, I think that it is high time for Toyota and other car maufacturerers to realize that the bar has been raised and they better come to the plate with a much better system. (Did I say anything about Toyota's bluetooh implementation? I hear there are serious issues with that as well. I will not know until I get my new bluetooh phone so stay tuned). Paying $2k for a navi option in a $60k vehicle and getting something that is outperformed by a $600 unit is just unacceptable in my book.
11-24-04, 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by stealth470
After reading at http://www.eclipse-web.com, there's no way I'd do the factory nav!!
That Eclipse system is friggin' wild... too bad they spread out the features exclusively across the models (one model does nav, another doesn't but has an internal hard drive, another doesn't but allows PC-based audio tuning, etc etc).
Does anyone know some other manufacturers of all-in-one integrated systems like the Fujitsu Ten Eclipse stuff? Something modular and expandable that does audio / video / DVD / Nav / bells / whistles / missles? (=
After reading at http://www.eclipse-web.com, there's no way I'd do the factory nav!!
That Eclipse system is friggin' wild... too bad they spread out the features exclusively across the models (one model does nav, another doesn't but has an internal hard drive, another doesn't but allows PC-based audio tuning, etc etc).
Does anyone know some other manufacturers of all-in-one integrated systems like the Fujitsu Ten Eclipse stuff? Something modular and expandable that does audio / video / DVD / Nav / bells / whistles / missles? (=
Oh on #2 PIA above... even aftermarket Nav units have the same safety stuff built into it. My Eclipse (as well as other models) require you either to be stopped or to have the parking brake set.
11-24-04, 04:47 PM
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Well, the integrated climate control stuff I can live without... I'd prefer that to be separate, in fact, for ease of use and access. I've still got 2x DIN for an aftermarket system, which if requires the vehicle to be stopped or the parking brake engaged to be interactive... well, it'll be clearly documented in the installation which wires you're SUPPOSED to run to your brake/parking light/fuse/switch. (-;
11-24-04, 05:28 PM
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DaveGS4,
I have a Garmin 2620. This stand alone GPS unit has the following features:
1. It allows you to program a destination on the go. No need to stop or slow down. (It gives YOU the option of doing it either way; all you have to do is choose to enable or disable this function).
2. It has literally millions more POI than Toyota's system (During a recent trip to Northern Virginia my wife made a query for a Cracker Barrel Restaurant and Toyota's navi system claimed that the closest one was in Pennsylvania! LOL). I can, for example, be driving along any interstate and ask it to find for me any place (I can pick the name I want: Wendy's, Taco Bell, Cracker Barrel, etc) near where I am or near my current route or near my destination; without having to select it first, I can see their location and can tell if the location is ahead of me or behind me or to either side of me and how many miles away!)
3. It gives me REAL time to destination (like 4:09 pm instead of 233 minutes).
4. Gives me better routing than Toyota's navi.
5. Has the entire map of the USA and Canada built-in (and I do not have to change regions to help it find stuff!)
6. It has a GUI that is miles ahead of Toyota's navi system and, yes, it gives you voice commands (in something like 10 languages!) (BTW, my wife tried to give voice commands to the Toyota Navi in french and despite her having set the system to French, it kept repeating the same totally wrong commands in English "POI Off" go figure!)
7. It allows you to take the unit into your home and program a trip with all kinds of stops in whatever route YOU want to do it and then bring it back to your car and just follows the voice prompts! (It is portable, you can take it into any car.)
8. I can go on and on.
So when I moved from my 2000LC to the 2004LC, I was expecting either a comparable system to my portable unit or an improvement (after all Toyota's navi system costs more than twice as much). Yet I all I get is this lousy implementation of a GPS system that does nothing very well. For serious navigation, I am thinking of taking my not-so-lowly stand-alone GPS unit with me when traveling out of town!
I posted in another thread that this is what I think is going on: car companies (including Toyota) are NOT in the business of manufacturing GPS equipment. So they have to outsource the navi system to third parties (Alpine, Delphi, Denso and others).
The GPS equipment manufacturing companies are likely to have products with many features, however the car manufacturers are primarily looking for a product that can do the navigation but also one that is not very expensive (they rather keep the profit than passing it on to a third party). So the GPS companies offer them a stripped version of their best products and we (the buyers of the vehicles) are likely not to know any better since we presume that since it came with the car, and it has a big screen and nice colors it has to be best out there. The example about the eclipse and the fact that its manufacturer also built a system for Toyota proves my point. I bet many consumers think that their OEM navi systems in their cars are tops. We are being duped guys! Toyota obviously went the cheap route.
I have a Garmin 2620. This stand alone GPS unit has the following features:
1. It allows you to program a destination on the go. No need to stop or slow down. (It gives YOU the option of doing it either way; all you have to do is choose to enable or disable this function).
2. It has literally millions more POI than Toyota's system (During a recent trip to Northern Virginia my wife made a query for a Cracker Barrel Restaurant and Toyota's navi system claimed that the closest one was in Pennsylvania! LOL). I can, for example, be driving along any interstate and ask it to find for me any place (I can pick the name I want: Wendy's, Taco Bell, Cracker Barrel, etc) near where I am or near my current route or near my destination; without having to select it first, I can see their location and can tell if the location is ahead of me or behind me or to either side of me and how many miles away!)
3. It gives me REAL time to destination (like 4:09 pm instead of 233 minutes).
4. Gives me better routing than Toyota's navi.
5. Has the entire map of the USA and Canada built-in (and I do not have to change regions to help it find stuff!)
6. It has a GUI that is miles ahead of Toyota's navi system and, yes, it gives you voice commands (in something like 10 languages!) (BTW, my wife tried to give voice commands to the Toyota Navi in french and despite her having set the system to French, it kept repeating the same totally wrong commands in English "POI Off" go figure!)
7. It allows you to take the unit into your home and program a trip with all kinds of stops in whatever route YOU want to do it and then bring it back to your car and just follows the voice prompts! (It is portable, you can take it into any car.)
8. I can go on and on.
So when I moved from my 2000LC to the 2004LC, I was expecting either a comparable system to my portable unit or an improvement (after all Toyota's navi system costs more than twice as much). Yet I all I get is this lousy implementation of a GPS system that does nothing very well. For serious navigation, I am thinking of taking my not-so-lowly stand-alone GPS unit with me when traveling out of town!
I posted in another thread that this is what I think is going on: car companies (including Toyota) are NOT in the business of manufacturing GPS equipment. So they have to outsource the navi system to third parties (Alpine, Delphi, Denso and others).
The GPS equipment manufacturing companies are likely to have products with many features, however the car manufacturers are primarily looking for a product that can do the navigation but also one that is not very expensive (they rather keep the profit than passing it on to a third party). So the GPS companies offer them a stripped version of their best products and we (the buyers of the vehicles) are likely not to know any better since we presume that since it came with the car, and it has a big screen and nice colors it has to be best out there. The example about the eclipse and the fact that its manufacturer also built a system for Toyota proves my point. I bet many consumers think that their OEM navi systems in their cars are tops. We are being duped guys! Toyota obviously went the cheap route.
11-24-04, 06:17 PM
#14
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Originally posted by nicoff
I posted in another thread that this is what I think is going on: car companies (including Toyota) are NOT in the business of manufacturing GPS equipment. So they have to outsource the navi system to third parties (Alpine, Delphi, Denso and others).
The GPS equipment manufacturing companies are likely to have products with many features, however the car manufacturers are primarily looking for a product that can do the navigation but also one that is not very expensive (they rather keep the profit than passing it on to a third party). So the GPS companies offer them a stripped version of their best products and we (the buyers of the vehicles) are likely not to know any better since we presume that since it came with the car, and it has a big screen and nice colors it has to be best out there. The example about the eclipse and the fact that its manufacturer also built a system for Toyota proves my point. I bet many consumers think that their OEM navi systems in their cars are tops. We are being duped guys! Toyota obviously went the cheap route.
I posted in another thread that this is what I think is going on: car companies (including Toyota) are NOT in the business of manufacturing GPS equipment. So they have to outsource the navi system to third parties (Alpine, Delphi, Denso and others).
The GPS equipment manufacturing companies are likely to have products with many features, however the car manufacturers are primarily looking for a product that can do the navigation but also one that is not very expensive (they rather keep the profit than passing it on to a third party). So the GPS companies offer them a stripped version of their best products and we (the buyers of the vehicles) are likely not to know any better since we presume that since it came with the car, and it has a big screen and nice colors it has to be best out there. The example about the eclipse and the fact that its manufacturer also built a system for Toyota proves my point. I bet many consumers think that their OEM navi systems in their cars are tops. We are being duped guys! Toyota obviously went the cheap route.
I personally DON'T want an auto maker to be in the nav business, I'd rather have a company that focuses on that technology. The OEM 2004 LS430 nav has ALL THE SAME FEATURES that my Eclipse does and more. How does that make it 'the cheap route"? What do you think is stripped out? I think the OEM does just as well as my aftermarket. I can't compare it to the Garmin car unit (I have one for my boat and hate it, routes me right through a land mass) but it sounds like that has nice features you enjoy. You probably should have bought a non-Nav LX and continued to use it.
11-24-04, 06:35 PM
#15
Originally posted by nicoff
Gohawks63,
I test-drove the Acura RL a couple of weeks ago and there you find one fine example of what a well-integrated navi system can do. Voice commands worked like a charm. Fully integrated navi, climate, audio and bluetooh phone system. I was not nearly as impressed with the driving abilities of the RL as I was with the fully-integrated navi/audio/climate/phone system.
As for my criticism of Toyota's navi system, I think that it is high time for Toyota and other car maufacturerers to realize that the bar has been raised and they better come to the plate with a much better system. (Did I say anything about Toyota's bluetooh implementation? I hear there are serious issues with that as well. I will not know until I get my new bluetooh phone so stay tuned). Paying $2k for a navi option in a $60k vehicle and getting something that is outperformed by a $600 unit is just unacceptable in my book.
Gohawks63,
I test-drove the Acura RL a couple of weeks ago and there you find one fine example of what a well-integrated navi system can do. Voice commands worked like a charm. Fully integrated navi, climate, audio and bluetooh phone system. I was not nearly as impressed with the driving abilities of the RL as I was with the fully-integrated navi/audio/climate/phone system.
As for my criticism of Toyota's navi system, I think that it is high time for Toyota and other car maufacturerers to realize that the bar has been raised and they better come to the plate with a much better system. (Did I say anything about Toyota's bluetooh implementation? I hear there are serious issues with that as well. I will not know until I get my new bluetooh phone so stay tuned). Paying $2k for a navi option in a $60k vehicle and getting something that is outperformed by a $600 unit is just unacceptable in my book.
I have read that the NAVs found in BMWs, Benzes, Jags and Land Rovers are absolutely terrible.