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My response was to the implication of this thread, that LS 500 sales are so bad that after only 5 months, Lexus has been forced to offer rebates to get sales numbers up, and that is simply not the case. As I posted on another thread, LS 500 sales are holding up better than the rest of the segment.
You're misinterpreting me, I think LS500 sales are doing about as well as they anticipated.
Its just the reality of that segment that big discounts off MSRP are required to move product. You can get 15% off of an S Class and its the sales leader. Its just par for the course.
Steve, my response wasn't directed to you, but to @jzqj55 who implied that they were offering rebates because sales were so bad that they would drop the LS altogether in a couple of years.
in 07 (pre-tesla days) Lexus was priced right and well positioned for conservative buyers that wanted reliability/power/luxury/mpg. The failure to create a new design in 2013 and slap controversial mesh grills on everything turned a lot off. Now you can get a 2015 used P85D fully loaded for 60-65k for the buyer mentioned above and the new LS500 isn't as appealing for the money. S Class and 7 series buyers are still buying them. My .02
in 07 (pre-tesla days) Lexus was priced right and well positioned for conservative buyers that wanted reliability/power/luxury/mpg. The failure to create a new design in 2013 and slap controversial mesh grills on everything turned a lot off. Now you can get a 2015 used P85D fully loaded for 60-65k for the buyer mentioned above and the new LS500 isn't as appealing for the money. S Class and 7 series buyers are still buying them. My .02
I have zero interest in a Tesla, they don't appeal to me at all.
I kinda agree with Steve regarding Tesla; a totally different audience for that car. And Tesla is not in the exactly same class as Lexus. Just yesterday, I saw a Tesla X the SUV. The back door chrome frame is so badly made: the top portion has no gap at all between the the door and the little triangular window, but the bottom portion has a gap that's so large that people can see it from ten feet away. The interior of any Tesla, of course, is not even close to that of an LS 500 (or even LS 4XX's).
Yes and I'm sure many people were saying the same thing about S Class sales in 2003 when the two sales trend lives diverged in benefit of the LS. So it really is about perspective
Sales numbers are sales numbers but does any of this account for the drastic change in demand for sedans vs SUVs? Its a much different auto market today than it was 10 years ago.
Lastly, no auto maker is going to seal a car's fate with only a few months of sales data, its just absolutely insane to suggest these things. And a new model in a couple years? Do you know how long in advance it takes to plan a new model for automakers of this size?
I'm not sure an old geezer like me could live with a car that has to be controlled through a tablet for even the simplest functions.
Originally Posted by shinonclub
I kinda agree with Steve regarding Tesla; a totally different audience for that car. And Tesla is not in the exactly same class as Lexus. Just yesterday, I saw a Tesla X the SUV. The back door chrome frame is so badly made: the top portion has no gap at all between the the door and the little triangular window, but the bottom portion has a gap that's so large that people can see it from ten feet away. The interior of any Tesla, of course, is not even close to that of an LS 500 (or even LS 4XX's).
Makes no sense to say the Tesla S is not in the luxury segment. Just look at the prices. Right on par with Lexus LS and everything above. I would say the Tesla S appeals to a buyer above the LS, or A8. Maybe in a Bentley, high end Porsche of Maserati class. I believe the Tesla S maxes out at $140K. The performance is definitely above a Lexus LS500
Fit and finish is a different story. But design, tech and performance for sure.
Makes no sense to say the Tesla S is not in the luxury segment. Just look at the prices. Right on par with Lexus LS and everything above. I would say the Tesla S appeals to a buyer above the LS, or A8. Maybe in a Bentley, high end Porsche of Maserati class. I believe the Tesla S maxes out at $140K. The performance is definitely above a Lexus LS500
Fit and finish is a different story. But design, tech and performance for sure.
The price is there as is the performance, but not the build quality, luxurious ness, ride, noise isolation, etc.
That's not a model-specific rebate, it's the general "military/graduation" rebate that Lexus offers across all models to anyone who fits their military/graduate definition.
My response was to the implication of this thread, that LS 500 sales are so bad that after only 5 months, Lexus has been forced to offer rebates to get sales numbers up, and that is simply not the case. As I posted on another thread, LS 500 sales are holding up better than the rest of the segment.
If we look at the average monthly sales for Q1 vs. Q2 for the segment, we get the following:
Moreover, I threw out Jan & Feb for the LS since available qty's were limited and went with the March number, which was the highest month of any and puts the LS at a disadvantage right out of the gate. As you can see, the LS handily beat the competition in Quarter over Quarter sales. The lone exception was the 7 Series, which had May sales nearly double the previous month and more than double the remaining 5 months average, so there is clearly a statistical aberration there.
Interesting numbers here. It shows that the meaning of luxury is evolving and sustaining quarterly sales is hard work. LS knows their niche and got their premium product well ahead of the upcoming ES350 relaunch. Sales in this segment are about knowing your client base, where the need exists for these luxury 4 door sedans, and putting together a car that makes these top 1%'ers happy. It's a fickle crowd to please. Where do LS owners go if they want something sexy and sporty? Is the GX or RX going to get the job done? Right there you've lost a customer to the competition with so many high end choices to pick from! Even staying a head of the tech curve is a challenge. To some people tech advancement = luxury. We have come a LONG ways since the LS 430 world exclusive road gps navigation.
Numbers aside, when I talked to the GM at our dealership, he said LS and RX-L sales were poor, and that they have too many on the lot (too many was mainly directed at the RX-L vs. RX). This is good for those in the market. At the time, he said they had sold 5 in June, which I found shocking, and more than double that 3 mos. prior, so they're moving in the wrong direction. This is a large dealership. Again, if you're a buyer, it's great.
^^ I’m surprised they said that. Perhaps a regional thing. Was at my dealer last week and they said they can’t keep the RX-L on the lot. They said LS sales are better than they’ve been in years, but still slow and steady.
Makes no sense to say the Tesla S is not in the luxury segment. Just look at the prices. Right on par with Lexus LS and everything above. I would say the Tesla S appeals to a buyer above the LS, or A8. Maybe in a Bentley, high end Porsche of Maserati class. I believe the Tesla S maxes out at $140K. The performance is definitely above a Lexus LS500
Fit and finish is a different story. But design, tech and performance for sure.
Agreed on the Tesla S... but, not too many $140K cars could beat some of the fastest sports cars in the world off the line by just changing a Mode in a menu. It's the appeal in the car. If they did the refinement of a LS, or a S class, it would be the quietest car in the world. Too bad they suffer from a lot of road noise.
07-24-18, 09:04 AM
