Lexus out of Warranty repairs vs Audi A8
03-20-18, 03:51 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
The "unreliable" argument is overplayed. How many people are going to buy a new Lexus LS and keep it for 100-150k miles? The answer is not a lot of people. Most are leased, and if you look at the statistics basically any of these cars are going to be fine for 50k miles.
I've also driven the S Class with and without MBC, and its nowhere near twice the car. Its a better car sure.
I've also driven the S Class with and without MBC, and its nowhere near twice the car. Its a better car sure.
03-20-18, 04:52 PM
#17
The "unreliable" argument is overplayed. How many people are going to buy a new Lexus LS and keep it for 100-150k miles? The answer is not a lot of people. Most are leased, and if you look at the statistics basically any of these cars are going to be fine for 50k miles.
I've also driven the S Class with and without MBC, and its nowhere near twice the car. Its a better car sure.
I've also driven the S Class with and without MBC, and its nowhere near twice the car. Its a better car sure.
I am, however, apparently in the "not a lot of people" category, as my 2010 460L just turned 263,000 miles. Had only one problem with it - the pre-collision sensors at about 190,000, and it only cost $350 to fix. My new 500 is supposed to hit the port next Wednesday. Honestly, I don't see me keeping it as long as my current 460L. I usually go around 4-5 years per car, but there was just nothing out there the last 5 years that I liked as much as my 460L.
Last edited by dsc07; 03-20-18 at 05:22 PM.
03-20-18, 05:04 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
"Not a lot of people" doesn't mean "no people" 
03-20-18, 08:01 PM
#19
Agreed, nowhere near twice the car. 20-25% better, maybe. For me, that certainly doesn't justify the price difference, but I'm not a status conscious kind of guy.
I am, however, apparently in the "not a lot of people" category, as my 2010 460L just turned 263,000 miles. Had only one problem with it - the pre-collision sensors at about 190,000, and it only cost $350 to fix. My new 500 is supposed to hit the port next Wednesday. Honestly, I don't see me keeping it as long as my current 460L. I usually go around 4-5 years per car, but there was just nothing out there the last 5 years that I liked as much as my 460L.
I am, however, apparently in the "not a lot of people" category, as my 2010 460L just turned 263,000 miles. Had only one problem with it - the pre-collision sensors at about 190,000, and it only cost $350 to fix. My new 500 is supposed to hit the port next Wednesday. Honestly, I don't see me keeping it as long as my current 460L. I usually go around 4-5 years per car, but there was just nothing out there the last 5 years that I liked as much as my 460L.
03-20-18, 08:30 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
We don’t have to make up these numbers, they exist out in the industry. Consumers lease more luxury cars than they buy, that’s a fact.
And thats why the S Class sells so much more than the LS, because consumers value the package more than the perceived reliability. You can’t say “reliability is everything” when the best selling cars in the segment are the ones with questionable reliability.
If you’re so convinced the S Class is twice the car and the LS is only “25% more reliable”, why are you here? Go buy an S Class and post on MBWorld. They agree with you.
I love the S Class too but it is not twice the car. It’s 10-15% more car at 25-30% more money. That’s why I’ve never pulled the trigger on one despite how much I like them.
And thats why the S Class sells so much more than the LS, because consumers value the package more than the perceived reliability. You can’t say “reliability is everything” when the best selling cars in the segment are the ones with questionable reliability.
If you’re so convinced the S Class is twice the car and the LS is only “25% more reliable”, why are you here? Go buy an S Class and post on MBWorld. They agree with you.
I love the S Class too but it is not twice the car. It’s 10-15% more car at 25-30% more money. That’s why I’ve never pulled the trigger on one despite how much I like them.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-20-18 at 08:34 PM.
03-21-18, 01:39 AM
#21
Feature mentioned at 2:20
03-21-18, 07:49 AM
#22
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
It's not the height of the car but the slope of the roof. For the top of the line sedan the slope of the roof seems much different than the LS 430\460. Not a big deal but something I wasn;t expecting
03-21-18, 07:49 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Entry issue is because the roofline, windshield height is low, nothing to do with the height of the vehicles suspension
03-21-18, 12:22 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
The "unreliable" argument is overplayed. How many people are going to buy a new Lexus LS and keep it for 100-150k miles? The answer is not a lot of people. Most are leased, and if you look at the statistics basically any of these cars are going to be fine for 50k miles.
I've also driven the S Class with and without MBC, and its nowhere near twice the car. Its a better car sure.
I've also driven the S Class with and without MBC, and its nowhere near twice the car. Its a better car sure.
03-21-18, 03:36 PM
#25
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
LEXCTJill, Interesting response. "Not everyone is concerned about reliability"? " High income individuals generally have the resources for repairs outside of warranty as well. ?"
Not sure what experience or knowledge you have of this, but just because people have money doesn't mean they want to waste it on expensive repairs. Why do you have 3 Toyota's instead of high end luxury cars unless you are not one of those High Income Individuals you seem to know so much about?
Unless living in your parents basement gives you excessive resources?
Not sure what experience or knowledge you have of this, but just because people have money doesn't mean they want to waste it on expensive repairs. Why do you have 3 Toyota's instead of high end luxury cars unless you are not one of those High Income Individuals you seem to know so much about?
Unless living in your parents basement gives you excessive resources?
03-21-18, 03:57 PM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
LEXCTJill, Interesting response. "Not everyone is concerned about reliability"? " High income individuals generally have the resources for repairs outside of warranty as well. ?"
Not sure what experience or knowledge you have of this, but just because people have money doesn't mean they want to waste it on expensive repairs. Why do you have 3 Toyota's instead of high end luxury cars unless you are not one of those High Income Individuals you seem to know so much about?
Unless living in your parents basement gives you excessive resources?
Not sure what experience or knowledge you have of this, but just because people have money doesn't mean they want to waste it on expensive repairs. Why do you have 3 Toyota's instead of high end luxury cars unless you are not one of those High Income Individuals you seem to know so much about?
Unless living in your parents basement gives you excessive resources?
03-21-18, 05:56 PM
#27
We don’t have to make up these numbers, they exist out in the industry. Consumers lease more luxury cars than they buy, that’s a fact.
And thats why the S Class sells so much more than the LS, because consumers value the package more than the perceived reliability. You can’t say “reliability is everything” when the best selling cars in the segment are the ones with questionable reliability.
If you’re so convinced the S Class is twice the car and the LS is only “25% more reliable”, why are you here? Go buy an S Class and post on MBWorld. They agree with you.
I love the S Class too but it is not twice the car. It’s 10-15% more car at 25-30% more money. That’s why I’ve never pulled the trigger on one despite how much I like them.
And thats why the S Class sells so much more than the LS, because consumers value the package more than the perceived reliability. You can’t say “reliability is everything” when the best selling cars in the segment are the ones with questionable reliability.
If you’re so convinced the S Class is twice the car and the LS is only “25% more reliable”, why are you here? Go buy an S Class and post on MBWorld. They agree with you.
I love the S Class too but it is not twice the car. It’s 10-15% more car at 25-30% more money. That’s why I’ve never pulled the trigger on one despite how much I like them.
03-21-18, 08:36 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
You’re incorrect about he LS being sold more than leased. That was true of the last few years just because the leasers had moved on since the car was largely the same and the car didn’t have very good lease rates. With the new model you will see that shift back.
All you have to do is look at the big jump of 3 year old LS lease returns and it’s clear that the car is widely leased.
All you have to do is look at the big jump of 3 year old LS lease returns and it’s clear that the car is widely leased.
03-22-18, 06:46 AM
#29
You’re incorrect about he LS being sold more than leased. That was true of the last few years just because the leasers had moved on since the car was largely the same and the car didn’t have very good lease rates. With the new model you will see that shift back.
All you have to do is look at the big jump of 3 year old LS lease returns and it’s clear that the car is widely leased.
All you have to do is look at the big jump of 3 year old LS lease returns and it’s clear that the car is widely leased.
Back on topic, the repairs out of warranty for the A8 and others can be swayed by buying an extended warranty. Personally, would be nervous with the A8 out of warranty. The LS, not so.
03-22-18, 06:52 AM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
I also have sources within Lexus corporate and Lexus finance, the numbers you are talking about are from the last couple years, not historically for the LS. All the numbers i have seen and been given for lease rates on the LS have been well over 50% when you go back to a time when the LS is not as old as it was. Having leased two LS460s recently the lease numbers werent very good, and the lease payments wound up being very close to finance payments, hence why people didn’t lease. I did but only for business reasons. Numbers on the LS500 will be different, or it won’t succeed.
When they sell 4k LSs that haven’t been redone in 10 years yeah they are mostly bought. When they sold 35k LSs a year they were mostly leased. Their sales goals are to be #2 in the segment, to do that they have to go back to mostly being leases. Also remember their goal is to capture new buyers at the expense of their long time legacy buyers, to do that they need to be mostly lease.
LS500 will be 60%+ leased not bought. Those are Lexus’ projections. LS400, LS430 and older LS460 were all also over 50% lease.
When you say “average time people buy new cars is after 3 years” you actually make my point for me. Reliability isn’t the most important factor to most buyers, and most buyers don’t buy the LS and keep it for 100-150k miles.
When they sell 4k LSs that haven’t been redone in 10 years yeah they are mostly bought. When they sold 35k LSs a year they were mostly leased. Their sales goals are to be #2 in the segment, to do that they have to go back to mostly being leases. Also remember their goal is to capture new buyers at the expense of their long time legacy buyers, to do that they need to be mostly lease.
LS500 will be 60%+ leased not bought. Those are Lexus’ projections. LS400, LS430 and older LS460 were all also over 50% lease.
When you say “average time people buy new cars is after 3 years” you actually make my point for me. Reliability isn’t the most important factor to most buyers, and most buyers don’t buy the LS and keep it for 100-150k miles.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-22-18 at 06:56 AM.