hitsofmiss

After having a great experience with my current Lexus ('03 SC 430 @ 225k & '07 GX 470 @ 220k & still going), I'm considering adding an LS 460 to my stable.

After spending several months I came to a conclusion that since I want Mark Levinson, Semi-aniline leather, AWD, & reclining rear sit (a massager would be nice too ), a LWB version is the easiest way to narrow down my search since not everyone lists all their options properly. And that's how I developed a pre-matured upgrade itch for an LS600h L & have stretched my budget a bit since then. I don't care about high-mileage options since the SC & GX both V8, have been rock solid so far. However, LS600h L are difficult to come by, especially in good condition & with a few owners. I also found a single owner LS 600, always maintained at Lexus dealership, towed in for Hybrid System Malfunction & later sold at Auctions. So that took some steam out of my enthusiasm & question it's reliability.

I decided to switch back to LS 460 L or just the LS 460. However, I was disappointed again to find in this forum that the '08-'12 460s are plagued with several teething issues, even with less than 110k miles. No wonder they're the ones on sale the most. And I don't think I can afford '13 460 yet.

So, out of the LS 460 & LS 600h L, does anyone know which one is more reliable? Any specific year may be? Is LS 600h L that bad? Has the Lexus quality gone down so much in the recent years?

Should I scale back & settle for '04-'06 LS430?

UDel

LS 600L is going to have more potential expensive issues then a non hybrid, plus you have to factor in the extra weight is going to cause the control arms and air suspension to fail earlier then a non hybrid. The main thing you have to worry about with a LS600h is the battery failing, that will cost thousands of dollars.

writes123

I recently got a 2008 600h with 127k miles, 2 previous owners. My hybrid battery has never been serviced and will likely need to be replaced by the 200k mark. A dealer would quote something like 6500 or so but a good independent hybrid shop has quoted me 2500-3000. If you drive a hybrid, the battery will likely wear out especially when you get one used with over 100k miles.

The large issue for many is the air struts which cost for parts only at the dealer around 1500 each. Adding labor, that becomes quite a spendy proposition and have scared away a few potential future owners. Mine recently had all 4 replaced within the past 15k miles, so I rested a bit easier.

The other major issue was front arm bushings and lower control arms. My lower control arms were replaced by the previous owner but I still have front bushings that need to be replaced.

I believe the brake actuator is another potential concern but I haven;t had mine serviced nor any history about it.

The hybrid aux battery is also quite expensive at the dealer costing 350 or so. It's a specialized AGM one with temperature sensor and hard to find aftermarket.

That being said, there are some quality upgrades with a LWB and the 600h got spared no expense in quality from Lexus.

I'd look at maintenance history with a fine tooth comb. Regular oil changes, ATF service, etc.

Is it worth paying a large premium for a 600h vs a 460L? That's something only you can decide, but with similar service history, I'd still opt for the 600. A local independent Lexus master tech recommended the 460 over the 600 due to the expensive replacement parts. Only thing majorly spendy for the 600 is the hybrid battery if the 460 has air struts too though.

Good luck with your search.

riknchar

I'm huge fan of the LS600hLs! They of course are subject to the same problem spots as the LS460Ls, perhaps more than the average 460L simply because they come completely loaded up most of the time, but to me they offer a tremendous luxury car value on the used market.

Traditional problem spots for all of the 2008-2012 LSs include Upper Control Arms (somewhat fixed in mid-2010), M/L Amps, Brake Actuators, and air ride suspensions. The LS600s have all of these potential issues, but no more so than a loaded up LS460L. The main additional concern with the 600hL is the hybrid battery pack, which has an 8-year warranty, will eventually require replacement, and costs around $5000 to replace.

My viewpoint: The LS600hL is the absolute flagship of the Lexus brand. When new, the price premium between a 460L and a 600hL was $30-40K (pretty bad deal). On the used market, though, the price difference between the two narrows dramatically, to the point where the 600hL becomes a smarter choice in some cases. For example, a loaded 2008 LS460L might sell for $15-16k, while an even more loaded LS600hL with similar miles will sell for $18-20k. Thus, for this comparison, you are getting a car that originally retailed $30-40k more for around $3-4K.

I chose to buy a beautiful 1-owner 2010 LS600hL. My car's original sticker was $126K, and it is loaded with pretty much every Lexus option, including the Executive seating package (reclining/massaging rear seat with ottoman and center console). My car had 66k miles when I bought it, and had been Lexus maintained religiously since new. I paid $27,500. I was able to purchase an extended warranty through a reputable nationwide company for $2800 - this will cover every mechanical item on my car (including hybrid batteries) for 6 years/48K miles. I only drive around 8K miles per year on this car, so I'll be completely covered for the full 6 years. No worries about control arms, air ride shock failure, brake actuator failure, or hybrid battery failure!

The LS600hL is quite a bit heavier than the LS460L, so it's probably a bit harder on the suspension. The added power from the 5.0L V8, coupled with the hybrid batteries, makes the car incredibly smooth and powerful while remaining eerily silent on acceleration. I average around 22 mpg driving around town, vs roughly 17 mpg I was averaging when I had a 460L. Not too big of a deal, but still nice.

I really feel lucky to be driving a $125k car for the next 6 years with my total potential cost being $30K (assuming the car is totally worthless in 6 years, which won't be true).

Good luck with your hunt!

hitsofmiss

writes123

You can look at some of my other posts where I document my search for the 600h. I got semi-lucky and found a local used dealer that bought one at a dealer auction likely as a trade-in. The car sat on their lot for nearly 3 months before they sent it off to Manheim, where I got the car from a broker. For my 08 127k 600h, no massaging seats, auction price was 14,700 and after dealer fees was 15,400 + taxes, registration, etc. This is in SoCal, so no rust and ideal weather for a hybrid other than the blistering sun showing in some faded and cracked rubber around the sunroof.

I generally did a search on cargurus, cars, autotrader and autotempest to look. Narrowed it down by location and pricing before finding the VIN and doing a detailed service history lookup via the Lexus Drivers website. Mine was dealer serviced nearly every 5k miles and even then I read a mechanic recommend new spark plug seals and valve cover gasket. I haven't replaced those yet and have opted instead to clean the engine with some Lubegard engine flush and use High Mileage Full Synthetic 10W-30 from Valvoline and have not seen any oil leaks except when I accidentally overfilled the oil.

When looking at a warranty and you price range, I think the cars may be too old or high mileage for that type of warranty. But I may be wrong. I instead just save the warranty money for the potential issues that may arise. I don't consider the 600 unpredictable but I fully expect to have 1 hybrid battery replacement by the 200-225k mark. I believe the car will still have significant value to warrant that 2500 expense when the time comes.

I would not worry too much about a hybrid warning system issue if all that was needed was a battery replacement as is semi-expected. The more of the wear and tear items esp air struts that can be done in recent service history, the better.

hitsofmiss

That's a fantastic price for that year, miles, condition!

But did you say you bought it from an Auction? Wouldn't it bother you if it changed so many dealers & no one was able to sell it?

I'm not handy like you so for a slightest repair or an issue, I would run to a mechanic. lol

DedBirdDog

You'd be amazed at how many cars go through auto auctions. Read this:

https://www.autoremarketing.com/whol...-industry-2016

hitsofmiss

Not denying that. However, if 2-3 dealers were unable to sell the car & they had to auction it out again & again, that tells me there's something wrong with the car.

And with so many inherent problems with this model & possibility that Carfax does not report every accident & weather related damages, I would run in other direction. Again, if you're handy you can take some calculated risk, I'm not.

writes123

Yeah, I can appreciate your hesitation. The main issues for the car not selling were from an age, mileage, scarcity, and not be at an unbeatable low price. Add to the rarity for a 600h, few buyers are looking at such a car. The car was a local SoCal car from the vehicle registrations. If you think about the people that buy a 100k+ car brand new, most of them will drop it off at the dealer on a regular basis. Unless the car was run as a taxi or limo, it seems reasonable to me that the owners would have taken good care of the car.

I thoroughly vetted the car via the service history and got a general feeling that there was not some hidden issue that was trying to be passed off to the next unsuspecting buyer. Recent and regular service intervals were a major factor in my confidence on purchasing.

There were some interior rips along the molding that I wasn't very pleased about but I wasn't looking for perfection, even if I would've preferred it. The car still runs and drives like a dream.

hitsofmiss

Any opinion on LS 460 F Sport which was available from 2009 onwards?

jrmckinley

Only thing I've heard on the F Sport is excessive brake wear and people are replacing the brakes with non-OEM parts. Other than that, I think it's business as usual in the F sport compared to the traditional 460 and the LWB.

Regarding your first post, I don't agree that the 2007 to 2012 LS460's have issues. The most common years for issues are 2007 to early/mid 2010. If you get a 2011 or 2012 you should be less likely to have some of the issues reported in 2007-2009. But with $20k as a max budget, my guess is you're likely looking at a high mileage 2011. You could also try to find a very late production 2010 (September is the start of a new model year, so if you find an August 2010 production you are effectively driving a 2011 because it was one month away from being an '11).

hitsofmiss

Excellent! I'll keep that in mind for the 460.

Any tips for the 600h L?

Kuhan

If your mind is set on getting 600, then get that one. You won't be happy if you settle for a 460.
I'd set some $ on the side if the day comes when you have to replace the hybrid battery and other stuff.

You only live once so get what you really want.

hitsofmiss

My mind is set on getting a reliable, long lasting, luxury vehicle. And I don't mind looking at high mileage, older, luxury cars as long as they're well taken care of. With 2 daughters in College, I can't even put a quarter aside. But as you said, you only live once, right? TBH, I just want to strike a balance.

As I indicated in my initial post, I decided exploring this option after great experience with both high mileage V8s & assuming the later models will be even more reliable & more luxurious. If the 600h is going to give me nightmares with surprises every now & then than I would rather drive a late 2010 460 or even a Honda or a Toyota.

That's why I asked @ jrmckinley if he's aware of reliable production year of 600h & is it even worth pursuing.