SW17LS

Hey everybody,

Wanted to post this, having lived with my LS460L with a few weeks I think I'm able to post some thoughts about different options and how valuable I think they are having had both a low optioned AWD SWB car and a highly optioned RWD LWB car. Hopefully this will be of value to people who are debating what sort of options they want when they are looking for a 460. I'll go through some of the key differences in options between my 2015 and 2017 and whether I think those options are worthwhile.

So my 2015 LS460 AWD had an MSRP of $79,200, my 2017 LS460L RWD had an MSRP of $89,400. So essentially $10,200 in options separate them. The only option my 2015 had that my 2017 did not (aside from heated rear seats oddly enough) is AWD, which costs roughly $2,500, so for all intents and purposes the cost delta is more like $13,000. Now, clearly I will be one of the last CL members to ever buy an LS460 new, so subsequent viewers of this thread will be shopping used, and the cost difference will be much less, but availability issues will be the biggest issue.

1. LWB vs SWB: So, the LWB does a couple things for the car. For one, it makes it look more imposing. The car looks a lot bigger from the side, and it makes the car feel more like a peer to something like a 7 Series or S Class. The rear space is cavernous, and its worth having even for the passenger comments. It makes the car feel like a much "grander" automobile. It also helps to even out the ride somewhat, and makes the car track down the road more gracefully. I have a small one car garage and I was concerned about the LWB car fitting, it fits fine and now that I'm used to pulling it in, its a non issue. I note people make a lot more comments about the LWB car than they did my SWB car, it has a different look and feel. Worth it? Yes.

2. Semi-aniline leather and alcantara headliner option: IMHO this is a must have, and its really the option that I most wished my 2015 had. The basic leather feels very plasticky, and shines up quickly making it seem more aged than it is, really doesn't belong in a car of this caliber. I was tired of my minivans having nicer leather. Door stitching materials and dash materials, while still synthetic with the upgrade are softer and feel higher quality, and the big one is the front armrest being real leather vs clearly vinyl without the upgrade, this has a huge impact on the feel of the front row. Steering wheel airbag cover is stitched leather, and what most people don't realize is the plastic on the sides of the airbag cover, surrounding the steering wheel buttons is also wrapped in leather with this upgrade, while on the base car it is hard plastic. Suede headliner is nice, but the base headliner is very nice too. Worth it? For sure.

3. 19" vs 18" wheels. The 19s definitely look better, especially on the bigger LWB car. However, even with the same high quality tires, the LWB and the air suspension, certain road irregularities present a slightly stiffer jolt on the 2017 with 19s than on the 2015 with 18s. Whether that is an issue for you vs the looks is a question. Am I going to run out and replace my wheels with 18s to get that slight impact softness back? No. If given the choice would I spec 18s over 19s to get the best ride possible? Yes. Worth it? No.

4. Mark Levinson Audio. First let me say that I am not an audiophile, I appreciate a nice sounding system, but very few car sound systems sound "bad" to me. With that said, does the ML blow me away compared to the stock audio? No. Now, bear in mind I listen exclusively to XM Radio, and music streamed off of my iPhone. I will try a CD in the system...if I can find one. The ML does sound clearer, but I find I have to listen to it louder to make music "pop". Bass is much better. Is the ML better? Yes. Would I personally make it the deciding factor between two cars I liked? No. Worth it? No.

5. Dynamic Radar Cruise/PCS. This is a system that I have had on numerous vehicles that have been my wife's daily drivers. Our 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland had it, as did our 2015 Kia Sedona SX-L and our 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited. For her, it is a must have. While I do drive those vehicles around town (especially the Jeep when we had it), the bulk of my experience with that feature was on long trips, and I had come to the conclusion that I did not like it. I'm the type that likes to make good time on a trip, and what frustrated me about DRCC is that it leaves too big a gap in front of me, where I don't put any pressure on cars in front of me to go faster or get out of my way. It also allows people to "sneak in" to the gap pushing me further and further back. I would have it set to say 80 and find I was doing 70 and had been for a while just because traffic would loaf around me. Once I took control again I would be back doing 80 comfortably because people would move out of my way or I would move around them. However, now that I have the system on my daily driver I find that I like it when commuting and driving around town when I'm not so focused on getting to a destination as quickly and efficiently as I can. Its great in stop and go/slow traffic too. Worth it? Yes.

6. LED Headlamps. My 2015 had HIDs, and my 2017 has LEDs. The HIDs had a wider beam that was whiter and more flooded with light. The LEDs are a better color temp, but I am still getting used to the different beam pattern. The car looks better with the LEDs. Auto high beams are cool. Overall, I think I prefer HIDs. Worth it? No.

7. Air suspension. This is a big one, because its a hot topic of whether the reward is worth the potential repair cost. My previous LS400 and LS430 had air suspension. However, a long period went between me having access to those cars and my purchase of the LS460 in 2015. I had test driven the LS460 with air suspension prior to buying the 2015 and didn't see much of a difference. I can tell you though that the differences between the coil car and the air car are there, they're fairly substantial and they don't really become apparent until you live with the car a while. The air suspension is not really softer, and I think that was the crux of why I didn't "get it" in 2015. However, thats not what its about. It IS more refined. The car glides down the road more quietly, the air shocks mute more NVH than the coil spring car, so the car feels more insulated from the road, and you have no spring or strut noise when driving on rough roads. The leveling means the car actually corners flatter, while being more compliant in a straight line. It also means that empty or loaded, the car feels the same. On Tuesdays in my business we all pile in cars and go look at new listings. Well, with 5 people in my 2015 car, you could tell visually and by driving the car was heavily laden. It felt heavier, ride was affected, it sat low in the rear, it rolled more in corners. In the 2017 car with air, it feels, looks and drives the same whether there are 5 people in it, or one. Which is really quite remarkable. The drive modes also provide some different options that while subtle, do change the feel and tenor of the car. The height high function does notably raise the car which is nice for rutted roads, carwashes, etc. One of the more interesting situations is when exiting and entering my office parking garage. The ramp goes sharply and steeply down, and the 2015 would actually drag the center of the car on the edge of the pavement at the apex of where the ramp meets the driveway, sometimes when I was in it alone, ALWAYS if even one person was in the car with me. I was worried about the LWB car being worse because that center part of the car would be lower when the car was negotiating that drop-off, if that makes sense. However, the 2017 never drags even with 2-3 other people in it. Why? Only reason I can assume is the air suspension. A feature I was really not a fan of has become the stand out feature in my new car. I would buy a warranty. Worth it? Yes.

8. AWD. So this is the only feature that my 2015 had that my 2017 doesn't have. I have not had the opportunity to drive the 2017 in the snow, and hopefully I don't. My 2015 with AWD was excellent in the snow. Unstoppable, I wouldn't think twice about driving it anywhere in up to 6-7 inches of snow. However, there are differences in feel between the AWD car and the RWD car you need to be aware of. The RWD car does feel a little more sprightly, it does have more power and you can feel that. The drivetrain in the AWD car is a little louder, and the transfer case does slightly impede on drivers legroom (not in any meaningful way as it does on smaller RWD/AWD Lexus products). The steering in the RWD car feels lighter, and there is a little driveline vibration through the wheel on the AWD car that isn't there on the RWD car. The front end being connected to the drivetrain has an impact. Worth it? Yes if you need to depend on the car in snow. If not? I would actively seek out the RWD car.

I think the biggest thing to take away from this is, get what you want and don't settle. I loved my 2015, but I LOVE my 2017, the 2015 was an awesome car don't get me wrong. I preferred the colors inside and out I think. The silver is sharp but it doesn't look as great clean as the nebula, and inside the grey leather made the shimamoku wood pop more (which is something a friend of mine also commented on just today while riding in the new one) There were a few things missing from the 2015 that once the luster of it "being an LS" wore off, bugged me. Most notably the interior leather and the shorter wheelbase once I started driving my kids around. The new one just feels a lot more special than the 2015 did. I truly feel having driven all of them, that as old as the LS460 is that it still holds up well to the modern competition in the form of the A8, 7 Series, S Class, etc. I don't at all regret getting this car vs waiting for the LS500.

Now options mine doesn't have, it doesn't have the UL package with the power rear seats, 4 zone climate, etc. That option is really neat, the rear seats are awesome, very comfortable and very impressive. If you can find one used, go for it. For me getting one would have been next to impossible and would have made the car a $100k car. Not worth it. Executive package same thing, would have made it a $105k car, not worth it, However used, these things might cost you a couple grand.

Here are some comparison pictures of both, 2017 is on the top:

rick3242

Great write up. Thanks for taking the time to share.

redlight30

Excellent write up! I see you have P&'s on there already! did you swap out what came on the car?

tofuprod

Extremely excellent post.

Perhaps this can be stickied for people to quick-reference.

SW17LS

Thanks guys, happy to do it!

I did, huge improvement over the OEM Bridgestones.

nysupraman

I see your viewpoint changed significantly about the air suspension as your old posts seem to go very much against this option. Beautiful car

comotiger

Hi Steve, that's a nice description and comparison of various features. I am sure it will be helpful. I wanted to note that while you have scored these features independently of each other for someone considering them, some of these come packaged together. For example, I have never seen a 2013+ car with DRCC not have LED headlights. Same goes for DRCC and ML audio. Certainly, there are cars with ML audio without DRCC, but I don't recall a DRCC car without ML.

About the DRCC, I remember you complaining previously about the large distance to the vehicle ahead due to the conservative nature of the Lexus system. It's good to know that you are now over it and use the feature regularly. I still hesitate to use it in stop-and-go traffic, but that's mainly because there is very little of that where I live.

mckellyb

Thank you for putting into words how the air-suspension isolates more in the way of noise, because I could not put my finger on what it was, air vs. non-air.

I have another air-suspension vehicle, but it's a 30K lb., diesel-powered, one-bedroom apartment (motorcoach), on a commercial Freightliner chassis, and it's quite similar in the isolation aspect, but the two have only that and being wheeled vehicles in common.

Shad034

This is just excellent. I wish I had found it when I was shopping back in December for mine. I did so much more research trying to figure out which options were must have and which were nice to have. Thanks!

AJT123

Nice post, thanks for sharing. I believe you 100% about the leather upgrade and asked you about it but it really looks no different in pictures. I'm sure it's better in person, though.

I'll drive my LS430 until it literally dies (paid off, lol, and runs like it's brand new), but I know my next car will be a late model LS460 in years when that day comes. I'm not a huge fan of the early ones, but I would say any late LS460 is a solid of a Lexus as any prior LS. A 2017 LS460 in about 6 or so years sounds just about perfect. This is going to be a stretch to locate but I want the LWB too, and the bamboo wood. That will be a huge hassle to find and I'll probably pay a premium for it but oh well. That bamboo wood is as nice as any I've ever seen in anything. I do love the shirimoko(sp?) wood too.

I prefer the slikier UZ motor and less gears (six is perfect IMO for any automatic) of the LS430, (not that the 4.6 is bad by any means, it's faster and still buttery) and since V8s are going the way of the dodo bird, I'll be glad my next car will have a V8. I still can't swallow the 5LS with no V8.

Beautiful car!

caha14

Excellent summary, Steve, and I'm glad you're enjoying the car. My time on AWD SWB 460s on coils has been contained to about two weeks (spread over time), but I have to agree on most of your observations, especially on the air suspension and the RWD vs. AWD. Also, my 460L did have a heavenly ride (on air) when I had the 18" wheels on, though that didn't deter me from getting the 5-spoke 19s.

We differ on one thing, which I think may change very soon... Just stick a nice concert DVD into your ML system and come back and tell us what you think of the surround sound I've been favorably impressed with the base system across most Lexus vehicles I've tried, but the ML reference surround on the LS and LX is something else.

And I won't even talk about my '08 LS vs. my '10, since as you know, changes were made. The '10 is great, but the '08 was amazing, and I gather the '17 should be better than the '10.

Again, enjoy in good health. The car is beautiful.

fwhomeboy

Hold on. Are you saying that you liked the 08 better than the 10 LS460?

SW17LS

Yeah the packages are what they are, but I think most people, like me have a couple options that they wonder about or they feel they "gotta have" and will accept a car having or not having other options as long as they have those. For me my two things were I wanted the LWB, and I wanted the semi-aniline leather. All the other stuff mine has was just a bonus. At the last minute I selected my car with the RWD because for the same money the RWD car comes with air suspension and DRCC vs having AWD and semi-aniline, ML but no DRCC and air suspension. Really what I wanted was just the DRCC, the air just came with it. In the end I found out that I really like the air suspension and the RWD vs the AWD, but I never expected that going in. That was kind of my thought process writing this.

My experience with the DRCC wasn't Lexus system, this is the first time I have ever used it (can't get LSs here with it). Lexus system is similar with its conservative nature, I'm sure they all are.

Yeah it did. We'll see if I feel that way if I wind up with a huge repair someday lol. All in all that was the crux of my concern, initially on a test drive the air doesn't feel softer so why take the risk of repairs? But living with it...its worth the risk IMHO.

Yeah in pictures you really can't tell, and brand new visually in person the leather looks the same. The semi-aniline feels much better though, and it is much more resistant to wear and shining up. For instance, that "pillow headrest feel" my 400 and 430 had, my 15 460 didn't have, the headrest felt like hard vinyl. My 17 however has that soft pillowy headrest feel.

Yeah the bamboo is rare, they're out there though.

Interestingly my 15 definitely had the "dieseling" or "ticking" at idle and low RPM low speeds, my 2017 does not. Don't know if there was any sort of motor change or if its just luck of the draw. Engine in the 17 is smoother, more like the UZ.

I have no doubt, but I don't own any DVD audio discs, and nowadays I don't even know where I would get one, or any CD. I guess I'd order them online? For the listening most people do the ML is a waste IMHO.

He means the ML audio. They tuned it down some in 2010.

Thanks guys!

fwhomeboy

Yeah the bamboo is rare, they're out there though. Question. What year did the Bamboo come out?

SW17LS

2013-2017 only. Typically only LWB cars from what I have seen