SW17LS

Yeah thats my problem, I don't feel that difference from normal to sport, what I was using to compare were speed bumps, hit without slowing down. BUT, I also don't feel like the dampers are set to 17 either...

Lets see what they say when they look at it and hook it up to Techstream.

Rhambler

I wouldn't worry about it.

I still remember my car and the strangeness I experienced upon purchase. It wasn't until 1000+ miles that things settled down.

Everything was weird at first: throttle, transmission and especially idle. I mean, it wasn't overt, but it was subtle enough that I noticed it (I'm OCD). All of this was due the car "learning." While I didn't have air suspension, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that the air control module is also going through growing pains.

I would wait until 1000+ miles and use that as a baseline.

FatherTo1

For some reason the site isn't letting me quote you, mckellyb, and I'm too lazy to add the tags. Can the LS really respond that quickly between ride settings within half-a-second? I am not questioning your assertion, just astonished the system can react that quickly. Perhaps I am too gentle on the air suspension because I literally make changes only at a stop light. I'm too afraid of damaging something by turning the dial "at speed", although I have done so a few times. I think it comes from memories of driving our Sequoia and the manual stating not to switch to 4WD above a certain speed or something. Plus, I figure it takes several seconds for the compressor to "air up" the LS suspension and so I tend to make changes at a standstill in traffic to give the system sufficient time to process my request. Part of me is also paranoid about breaking the air suspension. I have budgeted for repairs down the road but would rather do it later than sooner. I was amazed that the LS can select up to 17 levels of dampening. I can't even fathom how the 5LS and 2019 Avalon can adjust between 650 dampening levels!

It is interesting that you run pressures at 40 PSI and don't detect ride quality differences. I have tried 30, 31, 32, and 33. I think Lexus has it correct near 33. The LS rides very well but every now and then the ride is phenomenal. During those moments of automotive bliss I look at the tire pressure readings and notice it has the best ride quality when pressures happen to be 32 PSI through normal temperature fluctuations.

Anecdotally, even our 6-year-old daughter can tell the ride quality difference between Comfort and Normal. Last month we were driving around town and she was drawing in the back and complained that the car was bumpy and messing up her drawing. I begged her forgiveness and moved the dial from Normal to Comfort (while the car was in motion) and she continued drawing without any more complaints.

213374U

Don't worry about it, there seems to be little any of us can do to prolong their life aside from choosing routes with smooth pavement, and taking it easy over speed bumps.

If you ever travel on the highway your suspension is constantly inflating/deflating itself. As soon as you sustain a speed above 65 for ~10 seconds the vehicle lowers itself roughly 1-1.5" for aerodynamic purposes. Drop below 60 for ~10 seconds and the vehicle raises itself. So if in bumper to bumper traffic at speed for any length of time your suspension will likely be in use a good portion of the time.

You can, however, use the damper settings to save your suspension (namely control arm) bushings. For instance, there a specific section of our toll road that has undulations that will have the car bouncing. On approach I flip the switch to 'Sport' to limit range of movement in the control arms

Just try to enjoy it and keep a rainy day fund.

SW17LS

No P7s yet, they're on the way, should be here Thursday and go on Friday or Monday.

comotiger

If anything, I would say you were learning the car's behavior and getting used to its manners

I can definitely see how many of the mechanical components in the air suspension in Steve's brand new car are going thru a lot of flexing cycles and getting broken in. That could contribute to his potential lack of difference between the various settings. But this should not affect any aspect of the electrical system within the air module or the software that dictates the drive settings.

mckellyb

Good on your daughter for having a sensitive drawing hand!

Now, I'm changing damping rates via the comfort/normal/sport switch, not height with the "height high" button. The height change takes my car 30-32 seconds to complete going up. At a stop, radio and HVAC blower fan at low or off, I can barely hear the compressor, but it's there.

I can flick the switch from 'comfort' to 'sport' mid-freakin'-pavement heave, and it's quick enough to go from floaty as I left the high spot to full-on sport before it's even halfway done compressing the suspension on the way down. It's just the actuators spinning in the struts, and I've seen 'em move when I replaced one, they're mighty quick to spin. It's damned-near immediate in practice. Plus, each 'click' of them is I want to say about 1/22 of a turn, or so. IIRC, all 17 detents = about 3/4 of a full turn. Remember, the suspension computer is adjusting this constantly. In fact, when you come to a stop, like at a stop light, the system sets all four corners to 17 every single time. I figure it's in case you stomp on it, the suspension has as little rear squat/nose rise as possible. Also, if something happens to the system when the car is off, by default, it's at maximum damping. Self-preservation is good.

Oh, and each corner is adjusted individually, so 83,521 potential combinations, but you're never going to have some of them...like all four corners at '1' or '17'.

Tire pressure: Yeah, I thought I'd notice more in ride quality difference, but the suspension does such a good job, now that it can, the only difference I can feel is tire responsiveness on turn-in. I mean, when I rode motorcycles, large street bikes, I could tell the difference in 2 PSI, no problem, and would bleed off or add air if I was going to have luggage or a passenger. Add for more mass, bleed off for less. Same with suspension, if available.

SW17LS

I had 5 people in the car today including me, one of the really cool things about the air suspension is it felt exactly the same to drive as if I were in it alone.

FatherTo1

I had no idea this is how the air struts work, mckellyb! Thank you for the education! I will have to go back and fully read your posts about fixing your air suspension to learn more. I recall posts saying the air suspension minimizes side-to-side motion and so I always imagined a bladder around the strut inflating to maintain equal levelness and stability. I didn't realize there are actuators doing the work and spinning like adjustable coilovers. Now that I have the proper picture in my mind then I don't have any reservations about adjusting the ride dial on the fly. You also make a good point about the system constantly adjusting to maintain ride quality...but how does it know what road conditions are? It would have to be constantly reactive and not pro-active like the system in the S-class that uses cameras to detect upcoming dips and bumps in the road. A little off-topic but this discussion reminds me of a test that Bose did with an LS 400 to demonstrate their electromagnetic suspension. It was able to effectively smooth out speed bumps, supposedly up to 40 MPH.



Good point, 213374U, and food for thought.

mckellyb

While it is a reactive system, unlike the Mercedes S-class machines, it's so quick, for a luxury barge, very, very few people will be able to out-drive it. I've tried, and I can't find the right road to make it work here in the flatlands.

The air system may help with anti-roll, but the car still has steel anti-roll bars, and they're not small.

However...we're going to Colorado in April, and I know of some roads up there which should, by all rights, void tire warranties on any wheeled, motorized vehicle.

Remember, the actuators change the damping rates inside the "shock". Air pressure is your spring (coil-over), and is relatively slow to react, but a quickly-moving device which is connected to orifices inside the damper which control resistance to compression and extension can feel like the spring rates are changing. There is a huge difference in the damping resistance between '1' and '17'. It's equivalent to the blue (IIRC) Konis I have on a Freightliner chassis motorcoach. When I got those, I played with where I wanted them to be as far as damping, because, while it is adjustable, step one is remove it.

Um...yeah. I want to get this right the first time.

I thought I had it right set to about 40% of max. They're not indexed in any way, but there is an arrow on one side and you can see what the range is. Anyway, after getting three of them close to the same setting, I took the last one and cranked it up 100%.

Could compress it, but it took every ounce of strength in my then 180 lb. self to extend it, and it took like 20 minutes of pulling on it, though not all at one time...my back is still mostly intact.

After two years of travel, year one being Vegas to north of Fairbanks, Alaska, and back, I cranked all of them up about 10%, and they've been there ever since. More would be downright harsh, and it's a near 30K lb., diesel-powered apartment on wheels. It's not meant to handle at all well, just not fall over at posted speeds for curves.

BTW, people don't realize this, but curves/turns with speeds listed...those speeds are for the clumsiest vehicles on the road...trucks and buses, and they really are close to maximum for those leviathans.

I can take a posted @ 20 MPH cloverleaf ramp at 50 MPH in my LS, but 20 MPH in the coach is a bigger thrill because you're that much closer to an edge which, if you cross it, you're probably not going to be able to recover.

Those Koni dampers have 100K miles on them, likely close to a thousand of which are on dirt/gravel roads. There's nothing like having a 40' coach (with about 15' of car attached to it) on a road which goes from paved, to gravel, to dirt, then to well-used two-track...as it's getting dark.

SURPRISE!!!!!!!

I just remembered, for the eclipse last year, we went to Wyoming. Wyoming's road system isn't designed to have the equivalent of the entire population of the state leave at one time, so, along with thousands of others, some in coaches, we took to the gravel roads. Something like 100 miles of it, and we were far from alone. Saved us likely about 5-7 hours of sitting in stopped traffic. Sure, I'm going to have to spend half a day cleaning the dust out of that machine, but still, at least I can crack open a beer, turn up some tunes, and get after it.

SW17LS

Haha, good times. Sounds like a blast to me, I suggested we get a coach when we retire and my wife looked at me like I had suggested we cut all our arms off lol

mckellyb

We've had ours since 2002, I was 33 years old, and I like it so much better than air travel, it's not funny.

What's funny is the looks we got in campgrounds/resorts. All the older folks looked at us like, "give that machine back to your parents, y'damned kids...GIT OFF MY LAWN!!!" Even funnier was my wife was 49 when we got it, so she was closer in age to them than they thought, just didn't look like it. She still doesn't, in fact.

We have it set up for us, not like a hotel room. It's almost literally a mobile, albeit small, one-bedroom apartment.

A good-size fridge with an ice maker, stove, oven, microwave, tankless water heater, heated queen-size bed, in-motion satellite TV...it's definitely not 'camping'. Granted, it's not for everyone, but it's so nice to have your own space.

Plus, if you don't like a place, or saw what you wanted more quickly than expected, no big deal, just blow on outta there.

SW17LS

Haha, I'm sold! We'll have to work on my wife.

I'm up getting the windows tinted. This place is way back in the country, and I had a bunch of country roads to get here and I do feel the difference in Sport + in the twisties. I do believe everything is fine.

I gotta say, I love the air suspension.

rick3242

I am in agreement. The ride is so nice with the air suspension. So many people hammer it on this board and I was very worried about getting a car with it but I am so happy I did it. I dont think it would be the same car without. I even called a few dealers and spoke to the service techs about getting a used 460 with and without. The three I spoke to said that they would not hesitate at all getting a car with air suspension and that they are not a problem area in their opinion.

SW17LS

Having had both, it does feel like a different car. Its not something you experience on a test drive either, as you live with the car the extra refinement of the air suspension really comes across. The coil spring car rides great, don't get me wrong, but the air suspension really adds a layer of refinement, the air shocks insulate you even more from NVH, and the ride is so flat and glassy, its really nice.

My 400 and 430 had air, and there were many years separating my ownership of them and my first LS460, having had two LS460s one with coils and one with air, the differences really stand out.

So as one of the ones who denigrated the air suspension, I was wrong.