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Hybrid TechnologyUnique topics related to the LS600h L model hybrid drivetrain and other features/options found only on the LS600h. Please use the main 4LS forum for discussion about shared components with other fourth generation LS models.
It state that the hybrid battery was replaced recently, and the price is quite ridiculously low (it's in canadian dollars too which would equal roughly 15k in us dollars). I saw quite a few more of those battery failure cases than I'd like to for such a low volume production car. I can see how the price is dropping so low. At this price one major repair at the dealer (for the hybrid component I cannot see anyone else doing the repair or selling you the part) and the car stop making sense financially.
I imagine we'll be seeing more and more of these this year and into the near future.
I agree, with the 8+ year life and mileage coming into play I think more will start to have some issues. I don't see them lasting 10+ years. That's the hard part about new technology, hard to do long term testing. Like a robot can open and close a trunk to test the struts and lock assembly 10,000 times but you can't control time.
Hi, I have checked around a bit how the LS HV battery is built up and how it differs from the Prius type HV battery:
In the LS 600:
Each module is riveted to the the battery pack, so more difficult to change each module.
The Prius have:
At least on Prius's model II and III each battery pack in the module can easily be replaced since they are mounted with bolts and not riveted in place.
As You can see the LS600's batteries are different both in voltage and modules from the Prius's.
Arvid
Last edited by Arvid; 03-13-16 at 07:28 AM.
Reason: more info
This is excellent information, Arvid, thank you. I've been itching to research this very thing (given the Prius "DIY"s out there), and you've settled it. Alas, rivets complicating the process...
Evaluation of the 2008 Lexus LS 600H Hybrid Synergy Drive System
...I really want to read this paper, but can't get the pdf file downloaded with the full text and pictures..
Is it on my computer or is the paper faulty ??
I have found it several places.. but none work :-( ..
4. SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
The 2008 LS 600h HEV subsystem assemblies were physically evaluated and comprehensively tested in
the laboratory to fully assess their performance, efficiency, design, and packaging characteristics.
Laboratory evaluations included back-emf, locked rotor, performance, efficiency mapping, and
continuous load tests. Overall, the LS 600h motor outperformed the Camry motor in terms of efficiency,
torque, and power, while the mass and volume of the system only increased slightly. The use of a
different motor geometry and PM configuration are the primary factors which provide the enhanced
characteristics of the LS 600h PMSM. Additionally, the improved thermal management system used in
the PCU led to a reduction of the PEs device tally even though the power capability of the PCU increased
considerably. The LS 600h inverter efficiencies are similar to that of the Camry and the LS 600h motor
efficiency map contains large areas of high efficiencies and is generally moderately superior to that of the
Camry, especially for the low speed, high torque operation region. These advantageous motor efficiency
characteristics have significant impact upon the efficiency map for the motor and inverter combined.
Evaluations illustrate the benefits of moving to a new motor geometry and PCU thermal management
system through improved packaging, higher efficiencies, increased performance, and improved
continuous operation test results. Motor efficiencies are above 90% for a great portion of the operation
range and the 18 second power capability of the primary LS 600h motor is about 110 kW at 4,500 rpm.
PCU design improvements led to about a 50% increase of SP and PD for the motor electronics. As the
diameters of the LS 600h PMSM rotor and stator were reduced, their lengths increased, thereby
facilitating a 37% reduction of copper but a 50% increase of PM material in comparison with the Camry
PMSM design. The approach leads to a significant improvement (47%) of SP, but only a slight
improvement (11.9%) of PD. Although there are apparent advantages of the LS 600h subsystem designs,
fabrication costs associated with the innovative LS 600h PCU and ECVT subsystems are likely higher
than that of previous designs.
Continuous duration varies significantly with motor speed and specified stator temperature limit for each
power level. For example, the LS 600h PMSM is able to sustain a power level of 50 kW at 5,000 rpm for
about 14–15 minutes with a stator temperature limit of 150ºC. However, the duration for the same
conditions held at 3,000 rpm is only about 3–4 minutes. There is no standard for establishing continuous
or peak power rating specifications for motors designed for HEV applications such as the LS 600h,
Camry, and Priu motors. The significant impact of these conditions highlights a very important reason
for performing benchmarking tests on HEV subsystems – current technologies must be verified and
thoroughly examined objectively before the results are used by the FCVT program and researchers. The
influence of HEV specifications on technical goals and program planning would be drastically different if
unclear published specifications of HEV systems were used as a baseline.
Among the vast amount of information obtained during benchmarking efforts, the significant findings are
summarized in Table 4.1. Some of the information obtained from the LS 600h, Camry, and Prius
benchmarking studies has been and will be used by researchers to improve/verify analytical models. As a
next step in the benchmarking efforts at ORNL, focus in FY2009 will be placed on reliability, as end-of-
life evaluations will be carried out upon used HEV components and comparisons will be made with
results from previous benchmarking efforts to determine the condition of the components throughout the
lifetime of the vehicle. Technological advances which facilitate higher power capability, PD, SP,
efficiency, reliability, and cost effectiveness of HEV components are essential as HEVs become
increasingly dependant upon the electrical portion of the drive system and as the EV and HEV market
continues to expand in the future.
And now I would like to read this report , if it's made and published:
" As a next step in the benchmarking efforts at ORNL, focus in FY2009 will be placed on reliability, as end-of-
life evaluations will be carried out upon used HEV components and comparisons will be made with
results from previous benchmarking efforts to determine the condition of the components throughout the
lifetime of the vehicle. "
Me as well have a bad hybrid battery on my 08' Ls600hl. Its been bad for over a year so i know it will completely fail sooner then later unfortunately. I cant afford it. The dealer is hooking me up with employee pricing on repairs but i still cant afford it. $5,300 removed and installed. Which is definitely a discount but is it worth it?? I've been looking at like kind vehicles and i must say nothing adds up to the 600. Anything i go with besides the Ls wont have the features have. Its like paying more for less. Other then that shes fine. I do get some delays and hesistations in acceleration from time to time, only at a complete stop tho. but thats when the battery is down on 1 bar and is very weak. I bought a OBD 2 plug in wifi adapter and use my phone to erase the hybrid battery failure codes and keep driving. This car rides amazing. I ride in S550 once in a while and its just not as quiet. The Ls is more smoother as well. I would like to look into another 600 but newer model but im scared like this one, battery failure in the future. Hope we see some better pricing on battery before i decide to dump my 600.
03-12-16, 09:23 AM
ls600hl - Another hybrid battery failure
