TXLS430

I guess you could call me a loyal and fairly happy LS owner. I am on my second LS (2004 LS430 with 244,000 miles). It is time to get another car and I was debating between a 2012 or 2013 LS460. Another member of the board made favorable comments on the 2013 and sort of pushed me in the direction of the 2013 LS460. So I have been reviewing prices etc etc. Now I must admit, that when I saw the 4th gen of LS, I thought the design was boring and resembled a camry. I know, nothing new. I have also for years lusted after a MB S class. I think the S class is well, classy and I love the the flared "muscular" sides on the rear of the car. Frankly, though, I was not sure A. I could "afford" the S class and B. not sure I wanted to deal with what I am told is the maintenance expense of the beast. I would like to keep the car for at least 10 years (I've had my LS for 10-11 years). Most of the 2013 LS460's have been in the $34-$37k range. Not seeing anything I was thrilled about I decided to lust after a MB S class online and too my surprise saw a couple of 2013 S550's with 40-50K miles for $34-$35K. All of a sudden something I have always wanted seems to be in my price range with low miles. So, my questions to you folks, who are more knowledgeable, is: A. Any idea why the 2013 LS and 2013 S class are in the same price range (don't feel bad about stating the obvious)? B. I know car max sells expensive aftermarket warranties ($4,800 for one S-class I will drive tomorrow), but is it expensive to maintain the S class and can one hope to to get 10 years out of a S550 and still be financially solvent...lol? Thanks as usual. I now have to find a MB board to post on about longevity of the S Class.

roadfrog

Even if an S class was half the price of the LS, I'd pass. After owning a 7 series BMW, I can't deal with that kind of German drama EVER again. The S is BEAUTIFUL, but that doesn't make up for the potential... (nay...CERTAIN), issues.

signdetres

It's almost a guarantee that you will not be able to get 10 years out of the S-Class without spending a considerable amount in maintenance and upkeep considering it is already a 4-5 year old car. Mercedes are notorious for doing quite well up until this point (speaking from past experiences here as well, we've had multiple S500s/S550s including the W221 generation (W221 is the chassis code for the model you're looking at in "Mercedes-speak")) If you're okay with knowing that (or can find a great aftermarket warranty), I would go for it, there's a reason the S-Class is regarded as the king of the large luxury limo category - you'll enjoy it.

New vs. new, I would take the '13 S550 over the '13 LS460 any day of the week. Used, however, I would take the LS assuming it's in good condition if overall ownership and experience is your primary goal. You can't beat Lexus quality or reliability. Our S550 (as well as the other MBs we've had) felt like it lose its "newness" quite quickly, within the first year/first 10,000 miles or so, whereas our Lexus', even with 50,000 miles still look and feel new (after a good detailing of course). The MB nearly out-of-the-gate had seats that would click and crack and creak when cornering, etc. I'd bet the seats in an LS are still rock solid even after 100,000 hard miles. On the other hand, if power/thrust & acceleration is your thing, the bi-turbo V8 in the S550 is addictively smooth, effortless and oh-so-quick. You won't be disappointed in that regard.

The only obvious ticking time bomb I'm aware of is the suspension - it's bound to go out sooner or later if it already hasn't. Doesn't matter if it has the standard Airmatic air-struts or the hydraulic system "Active Body Control," it will be going out eventually. We've dealt with this on 2 separate Airmatic-equipped MBs when they were 2 and 3 years old, thankfully under warranty. Active Body Control is a bit more notorious for failure but since Airmatic doesn't have the greatest track record either, I'd go for an ABC equipped model if available (might as well! Regular struts/suspension isn't offered so it's a lose-lose situation here ). It does an impressive/otherworldly job keeping the body of the car completely flat (literally) in even the most aggressive maneuvers. If you're interested in finding out more, the W221 section over at MBWorld.org has a pretty large community of owners that can give you further info.

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

Ive tried many times to find a "safe way" into the german cars but in my opinion it doesn't exist.

The 03-06 "55 AMG's" would be the only cars id gamble on, they got the supercharged V8 engines and can be bought for peanuts, and apparently are as reliable as you are going to get when it comes to Mercedes.

For a daily driver I would just get the 460, and try to modify it a bit to spice things up and make it more exciting.

SW17LS

As others have said, the S Class is a better car new, but used and you want to keep it for 10 years? Not a chance in hell, you have no choice but to get an LS in this segment with those goals in mind.

Thats the exact reason why the S Class, which new was much more money, is the same price as the LS 4-5 years old.

dlbuckls10

The 2013 S-class is a world class automobile and I love the way it looks and drives but it's full of flaws. I've own two previous S-class (both with warranties) that were unreliable and expensive to maintain. I would rather drive my 460 until the wheels fall off rather than owning another used S-class.

TXLS430

Hilarious, Thanks!

JLAWS

Lexus LS460 is the only Flagship Luxury car I would gamble on used. I have an 2008 Ls460, and it's all sorted out with no problems and has been great. I can imagine what ownership would be on the same year 2008 S550. Probably check engine/system lights galore. The only "warning" light I got so far after 7 months of ownership is the warning about icy roads using the Brake hold feature

jrmckinley

Never owned an MB, but have been very tempted in the past for all reasons you listed. But as others are stating, I'd stick with the LS. The experience you've had with your other LS's will very likely be mirrored in the 460. Like you, I owned a 400 and 430 prior to making the move to the 460. Out of warranty German ownership is very different from Lexus.

I've only owned one German car- I bought a very gently used Audi S5 last summer (less than 50k miles) as a fun car. I drove it 2,000 miles over the course of 10 months and sold it. Even the most minor thing to repair can become an inconvenience on German cars. One example- I had to get a new battery - AAA jumps the car but doesn't carry batteries for those cars. They tell me I have to take it to an Audi dealership or high-end Euro independent shop because the car has to be programmed to accept the new battery. Replacing the battery and doing the programming ran me just under $400. Not only is that absurd, I didn't like the idea that something so minor couldn't be handled at a "normal shop" or by a AAA truck. Roughly 3 weeks after the battery, I had another issue that ran me about $700. I also occasionally noticed something strange with the stereo which I think was a glitchy Bang & Olufsen amp. If that would've gone bad, I'm out $2k-$3k. After doing the battery and the other $700 repair, I paid $50 and threw it on AutoTrader.

Just like the S class, I had always lusted after that car due to its styling and driving/handling feel, but the ownership experience was too far removed from what I have come to love and expect from Lexus. Go for the 460 and don't look back. It's a huge upgrade from the 430 once you get past the sound and feel of the 460 engine which isn't as quiet or smooth as 430 or 400. No regrets here.

Chuckinnj

The only way that I would own a Mercedes is "IF" it had a bumper to bumper warranty..... Then as soon as the warranty was up I would unload it!

Oliver Enterprises

Very wonderful reply there, but I don't think it has ever been explained so clearly as the quoted line. This is what the Japanese guys beat themselves up horribly to achieve. I know, I was there and was part of it. If some Toyota guys read this, they would take the rest of the day off, and go have a beer with their buddies.

davedudu

I have not found any ways to improve handling, steering or overall responsiveness of my 2013 swb LS460. I'm very happy with the reliability of my car, but it is boring to drive.

LuvmyLS

The other comments are spot-on. European cars (pick a brand) will not hold up like a Japanese car. I bought a 2005 BMW 545i under warranty with 38k miles on it. When it came off warranty, it cost me over 50 cents a mile in maintenance alone to drive the car. At 107k miles, I had to put a new engine in it. That is after I followed the manufacturer's maintenance guidelines. The craziest part...many people on the BMW forum were impressed with how many miles I put on my 545i before I needed a new engine! WHAT?? That's crazy. I will never, ever, own another German car that is not covered on a zero-deductible bumper-to-bumper warranty.

Dave144239

Check these videos out...I'm sticking with Lexus.

Kennyr44

I own the ML350 in the Vin range for the weak balance gear. Mine has 130k and has no record of ever being done. I got the car at 70k. It never was repaired at a Mercedes dealer and I guess it could have been done elsewhere and the receipts destroyed but I doubt it since all the repair receipts were in the car when I got it. As of now there is no problem. Yes its a rolling time bomb but I only drive it when it snows (since my LS460 is rear wheel drive) or I need to haul something. My insurance for it is only $220 a year. The general consensus is that when the check engine light comes on for this you can cancel the codes and continue to drive it for awhile. One guy did for 12.000 miles. My plan. Then junk yard it when it runs bad or is too loud to endure. Most of the bad gears went out by 70k so mine may be a good one also. Folks this is pretty much German car ownership in a nutshell.