Out with 2008 LS600hL, in with 2017 Genesis G90
11-06-17, 05:40 PM
#91
Lexus Test Driver
Honestly, I don't think you can put any meaningful amount of trust in Consumer Reports when it comes to automobiles.
Toasters and vacuums, fine, but cars aren't their thing.
Toasters and vacuums, fine, but cars aren't their thing.
11-07-17, 06:54 AM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
When it comes to car "testing", I agree, simply because it's all subjective and they gear their reviews towards "moms and pops". However, for reliability studies, I think they're bang on. Their data is in line with most (JD Power etc). There's a difference between "reviews" and data. I'll refer to C&D, or even forums such as these, when it comes to reviews.
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11-08-17, 10:09 AM
#93
Lexus Test Driver
Excellent point. They're just distilling statistics with the reliability stuff.
Thanks for clarifying, I should have done the same. Plus, you're a C&D guy. I have issues going back to 1980, which I'm glad I kept, even though I'm closing in on...wait, this can't be right...having a 40 year collection of Car and Driver.
It's really neat to be able to research cars from your own library because not everything is online.
Thanks for clarifying, I should have done the same. Plus, you're a C&D guy. I have issues going back to 1980, which I'm glad I kept, even though I'm closing in on...wait, this can't be right...having a 40 year collection of Car and Driver.
It's really neat to be able to research cars from your own library because not everything is online.
11-08-17, 04:38 PM
#94
Lexus Champion
I value the CR reviews. Their take is simply from a consumer’s viewpoint, not an enthusiast’s. Automobile mags have their own set of priorities that, depending on the mag, might more closely align with folks here.
The subjective parts of their reviews are IMO mostly (not completely) the weights the assign to the elements of those reviews.
The subjective parts of their reviews are IMO mostly (not completely) the weights the assign to the elements of those reviews.
11-08-17, 06:24 PM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
...wait, this can't be right...having a 40 year collection of Car and Driver.
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mckellyb (11-09-17)
11-08-17, 06:48 PM
#96
Lexus Champion
A side note to my new G90 acquisition: Leasing this car was way more financially smart than buying it outright (even if I intend to buy the car when the lease is over).
For those who are in the "never-lease" club, here's why leasing the G90 makes more financial sense:
1. The MSRP was around $71K.
2. The total Genesis Lease Rebates/Incentives totaled $12,500.
3. The Genesis purchase Rebates were only $2500.
4. The total of my lease payments is $22,176 (without tax). I can buy the car at the end of the lease for $32,300. Total cost to purchase the car via the 3-year lease = 22,176 + 32,300 = $55,016.
5. The best outright purchase price for the car today (I believe) would be in the neighborhood of $63-65k (even that might be tough, since the rebates are so low for the purchase).
So I can lease for 3 years, making the relatively low payments, and at the end of the 3 years, if the car has held it's value better than expected, I can trade it in and reap positive equity or purchase it for $32,300 and be happy I got a great deal. If the value tanks (as I expect), I can simply give the car back and walk away.
This situation is not all that common, I admit. Genesis is REALLY encouraging leasing for this model. This is why I believe everyone should evaluate the financial benefit of leasing in addition to purchasing when negotiating a new car deal.
For those who are in the "never-lease" club, here's why leasing the G90 makes more financial sense:
1. The MSRP was around $71K.
2. The total Genesis Lease Rebates/Incentives totaled $12,500.
3. The Genesis purchase Rebates were only $2500.
4. The total of my lease payments is $22,176 (without tax). I can buy the car at the end of the lease for $32,300. Total cost to purchase the car via the 3-year lease = 22,176 + 32,300 = $55,016.
5. The best outright purchase price for the car today (I believe) would be in the neighborhood of $63-65k (even that might be tough, since the rebates are so low for the purchase).
So I can lease for 3 years, making the relatively low payments, and at the end of the 3 years, if the car has held it's value better than expected, I can trade it in and reap positive equity or purchase it for $32,300 and be happy I got a great deal. If the value tanks (as I expect), I can simply give the car back and walk away.
This situation is not all that common, I admit. Genesis is REALLY encouraging leasing for this model. This is why I believe everyone should evaluate the financial benefit of leasing in addition to purchasing when negotiating a new car deal.
11-16-17, 06:41 AM
#98
Instructor
Thread Starter
Keep in mind also that the national ads for cars can almost always be beat by actually negotiating with a local dealer, especially if you time your purchase well (end of month, end of quarter, end of year) and pick a model that has been sitting around for a while. With the 2018s widely available now, I would think zero-down 2017 G90 leases in the mid-$600 range should be very doable, and at that price, this car is a real bargain. Good luck!
11-16-17, 09:19 AM
#99
Mahad: I'm really not sure how/why the dealer was able to make this deal work, but I was happy to get it. It was the end of a month, and the car I leased had been sitting on this dealer's lot for many months and he REALLY wanted to sell it. He did say that I got the best deal he's ever given on a G90, for what that's worth. The rebates on leases for the G90 were great - around $12K, I think, and that really helped.
Keep in mind also that the national ads for cars can almost always be beat by actually negotiating with a local dealer, especially if you time your purchase well (end of month, end of quarter, end of year) and pick a model that has been sitting around for a while. With the 2018s widely available now, I would think zero-down 2017 G90 leases in the mid-$600 range should be very doable, and at that price, this car is a real bargain. Good luck!
Keep in mind also that the national ads for cars can almost always be beat by actually negotiating with a local dealer, especially if you time your purchase well (end of month, end of quarter, end of year) and pick a model that has been sitting around for a while. With the 2018s widely available now, I would think zero-down 2017 G90 leases in the mid-$600 range should be very doable, and at that price, this car is a real bargain. Good luck!
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aypues (12-31-17)
03-07-18, 03:32 PM
#102
Pole Position
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...011-ls460.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...10-ls460l.html
Last edited by comotiger; 03-07-18 at 03:38 PM.
03-08-18, 06:30 AM
#103
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yes, as AC notes, I did decide to dump the G90 and jump back into an LS460L recently, for a variety of reasons.
I honestly loved the G90 in many ways. It was thoroughly modern compared to the 4G LS. It had an amazing interior (extra soft leather, leather dash, ambient lighting, great fit and finish, etc.). Unlike many people, I actually liked the exterior of the car (seemed to have a great presence/stance). The V6 TT engine had great power, and the full torque was fully accessible at a low RPM (1300). I didn't detect any turbo lag, though I really drive very conservatively.
My dislikes on the car were relatively few. The gearing of the car in full Comfort mode (where I liked to keep it) was just a bit too ambitious on the upshifts. When slowly accelerating from a stop, the car would sort of "groan" at between 20-30 mph as it upshifted a bit too early and lugged the motor slightly. Others on the G90 forum have commented on this, and I'm guessing Genesis will tweak the transmission setting in future cars to not lug the motor at this speed. The Genesis dealer experience was still severely lacking for a luxury brand, also. While I took advantage of the concierge pick-up and delivery service for the car, my sales guy was a Hyundai salesman at heart, used to hustling kids buying Elantras and not quite used to meeting the needs/expectations of the buyers of $70k cars.
I was leasing the car (the only smart way to own a G90 right now, given the enormous lease rebates), and while my payment was pretty good for a $70k car, it was still higher than I liked. I was also killed on annual licensing fees, which are based on the car's value here in Nebraska. I was paying around $1200 to license the car each year, which I found annoying.
In the end, I really just missed the simplicity and sheer rock-solid quality of my old LS600hL. I decided to give up all of the new safety features and bling on the G90 for the comfort and familiarity of the LS. I also decided that I prefer owning a car vs leasing it. I targeted the 2009-2012 LS460s in my hunt, since I prefer that body style, wanted to keep the price down, and needed AWD (which didn't come along until the 2009 model year). I decided I really wanted a LWB version, and my must-haves included the ML stereo, the upgraded leather interior, and air ride suspension (I'm a fan of the pillowy-soft ride the air ride gives, and I realize that means I'll be stuck with an expensive repair one day). I found the right car for me at my local Lexus of Omaha dealership -- a 2010 LS460L AWD in Smoky Granite Mica with black interior. The car was owned by the former Pre-Owned Sales Manager at Lexus of Omaha (who I knew and trusted), had 91k miles, but a thorough and 100% complete Lexus service history. I paid $21,600 for the car, and the dealership completely rejuvenated it before I picked it up (new brakes, painted front and rear bumpers, PDR on a couple of dings, new premium floor mats, etc.). The car looks nearly new and drives perfectly.
I'm very happy to be back in the driver's seat of the LS! But I honestly can see the appeal of the Genesis G90 and wouldn't rule out purchasing a used one at some point in the future. I'd go with the V8 Ultimate version next time. They depreciate like bandits, and I'm guessing a 3-year old mint condition V8 Ultimate will sell in the low $30s, which will truly be a bargain for that car.
I honestly loved the G90 in many ways. It was thoroughly modern compared to the 4G LS. It had an amazing interior (extra soft leather, leather dash, ambient lighting, great fit and finish, etc.). Unlike many people, I actually liked the exterior of the car (seemed to have a great presence/stance). The V6 TT engine had great power, and the full torque was fully accessible at a low RPM (1300). I didn't detect any turbo lag, though I really drive very conservatively.
My dislikes on the car were relatively few. The gearing of the car in full Comfort mode (where I liked to keep it) was just a bit too ambitious on the upshifts. When slowly accelerating from a stop, the car would sort of "groan" at between 20-30 mph as it upshifted a bit too early and lugged the motor slightly. Others on the G90 forum have commented on this, and I'm guessing Genesis will tweak the transmission setting in future cars to not lug the motor at this speed. The Genesis dealer experience was still severely lacking for a luxury brand, also. While I took advantage of the concierge pick-up and delivery service for the car, my sales guy was a Hyundai salesman at heart, used to hustling kids buying Elantras and not quite used to meeting the needs/expectations of the buyers of $70k cars.
I was leasing the car (the only smart way to own a G90 right now, given the enormous lease rebates), and while my payment was pretty good for a $70k car, it was still higher than I liked. I was also killed on annual licensing fees, which are based on the car's value here in Nebraska. I was paying around $1200 to license the car each year, which I found annoying.
In the end, I really just missed the simplicity and sheer rock-solid quality of my old LS600hL. I decided to give up all of the new safety features and bling on the G90 for the comfort and familiarity of the LS. I also decided that I prefer owning a car vs leasing it. I targeted the 2009-2012 LS460s in my hunt, since I prefer that body style, wanted to keep the price down, and needed AWD (which didn't come along until the 2009 model year). I decided I really wanted a LWB version, and my must-haves included the ML stereo, the upgraded leather interior, and air ride suspension (I'm a fan of the pillowy-soft ride the air ride gives, and I realize that means I'll be stuck with an expensive repair one day). I found the right car for me at my local Lexus of Omaha dealership -- a 2010 LS460L AWD in Smoky Granite Mica with black interior. The car was owned by the former Pre-Owned Sales Manager at Lexus of Omaha (who I knew and trusted), had 91k miles, but a thorough and 100% complete Lexus service history. I paid $21,600 for the car, and the dealership completely rejuvenated it before I picked it up (new brakes, painted front and rear bumpers, PDR on a couple of dings, new premium floor mats, etc.). The car looks nearly new and drives perfectly.
I'm very happy to be back in the driver's seat of the LS! But I honestly can see the appeal of the Genesis G90 and wouldn't rule out purchasing a used one at some point in the future. I'd go with the V8 Ultimate version next time. They depreciate like bandits, and I'm guessing a 3-year old mint condition V8 Ultimate will sell in the low $30s, which will truly be a bargain for that car.
03-08-18, 06:45 AM
#104
I'm guessing it wasn't cheap turning in the lease so soon.
03-08-18, 07:35 AM
#105
Instructor
Thread Starter
It actually was a break-even deal, believe it or not. With the lease rebates and negotiation I was able to get back in July, I obtained the car for roughly $57k. I financed in around $5k in negative equity when I did the original lease. In January, I was offered $50k cash for the car by a local Hyundai dealer, and the lease payoff at the time was $55k, so I didn't make a dent in my original negative equity, but I came out pretty much unscathed by the lease. I think the Hyundai dealer overpaid for the car, personally, but I've since discovered that the sales manager is using the car as his personal/company vehicle, and I think he really wanted to get his hands on one to drive.
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Wandl (03-20-18)