FatherTo1

As some of you may know, I had my heart set on a 2013 460 SWB with the UltraLux upgrade. Ultimately, the seller elected to keep the car rather than sell it.

To cope with the disappointment, I went to test drive a few SUVs this morning -- 2013 Q7 3.0T Plus Quattro, 2017 F-Pace Supercharged, 2017 Range Rover Sport (V8). All three vehicles were at our local Jaguar/Land Rover dealership. Below are my impressions of each car (spoiler alert: I am infatuated with the Range Rover Sport (nice going, Steve/SW15)).

The Q7 rode noticeably better than the Porsche Cayenne (duh), and still offered very good reflexes and sporty handling. The salesperson encouraged me to keep the speed up throughout curves and turns to demonstrate how well the Audi would stay on the road. True to form, it stayed planted. I liked the handling but still wished for a more refined ride, plus the interior did not exude quality or luxury. I was encouraged to try the F-Pace.

The Jag is a real looker. I am familiar with the accolades and praise heaped on the F-Pace by automotive journalists. I must say, it lives up to its billing. The F-Pace was very comfortable, offered a more supple ride and better suspension dampening than the Q7 while still providing cat-like reflexes (pun intended). I immediately felt comfortable in the car and with its dimensions, I just wish it was a little bigger and roomier. With the carseat in the rear middle position, the outboard seats are definitely more cramped than the LS 430 (expectedly so). I was impressed by the aluminum body, the decent cargo space, and especially by the well-designed virtual instrument cluster and main console screen. You can customize the main console screen with your favorite apps, akin to an Android smartphone! The interface is easily among the best in the luxury class and is very intuitive, much better than iDrive or what the 2013 LS 460 has. Power from the supercharged 3.0L is more than adequate and the car is very stable and well composed over bumps. I liked the F-Pace a lot and shared with the sales manager that I had never considered a Jaguar before but their current line-up are head-turners, plus the content is great and backs up the exterior design wonderfully. I love how the gear shift raises up from the center console and also liked the multiple suspension settings. Nifty. Overall, the F-Pace would be great for my wife in the far future. My only gripe is I wished the F-Pace was a little bigger and roomier. So we hopped into a 2017 Range Rover Sport.

Oh I really like the RR Sport! It isn't too long, yet still spacious. I broke out the tape measure and the RR Sport offers 4.5 inches more hip room than the 2013 LS 460. I placed the car seat in the middle rear and was still able to fold one of the outboard seats forward to access the cargo area (which means ample room when the seat is actually occupied). We couldn't find a V6 so I test drove the V8. Of course the V8 had monstrous power. More importantly, the SUV was very composed on broken pavement and also very quiet. A very serene ride. I really appreciated the extra room over the F-Pace. I agree with Steve/SW15, that the Range Rover is as smooth of an SUV as you'll get. The suspension doesn't have multiple modes (other than the off-road tranny set-ups), but it does have Access Mode which lowers the car a few inches for easier ingress/egress, then the car raises back up on demand or when you get beyond 30 MPH. The height changes are also very quick, completed within 10 seconds. I'll have to research the reliability of their air suspension but I would assume a robust system in the RR Sport since this type of vehicle is designed for true off-roading and can ford rivers (which we'll never do). The standard RR is beyond our budget. Even a new RR Sport is beyond our budget but I am willing to find a way to afford a $55K 2014 RR Sport over an LS 460. Strange cars to cross-shop but I like the RR Sport just as much as a 460, and maybe a little more than the 460 due to the greater utility.

Another thing that stood out to me today was the great experience at Jaguar/Land Rover. Both the internet sales manager and the sales associate were both extremely knowledgeable about the vehicles in their stable and showed great enthusiasm for their products. There was no pressure to buy and they were both very cordial, polite, and professional. They showed me how everything worked on each car and were open to my inputs about each vehicle and what my likes, and few dislikes were, so that they can report it back to corporate to help improve future designs. I spent over three hours at the Jaguar/Land Rover dealership today and honestly it was a better experience than past visits to the Lexus dealership. Hopefully, the customer service continues post-sale. Based on today, I left the dealership with a very positive impression of Jaguar/Land Rover.

SW17LS

For the Q7, you have to drive a new one. The previous version of the Q7 can't hold a candle to the new Q7.

Yeah the RRS is a great vehicle, if you think it rides well you should drive the big Range Rover lol. I'm really thinking next time I might get one. One of my coworkers just got a new Sport Autobiography and it's beautiful. For that money ($100k) I would buy the big Range Rover though. One thing I really like about them is the driving position, very upright.

Big it issue for you is reliability. I would lease a Range Rover but no way would I buy one and keep it 10 years like I would the LS.

FatherTo1

Thanks for opening my eyes, and mind, to what's out there, Steve. My wife thinks I'm bouncing all over the place from one marquee to another. I just love well-engineered cars and more than one brand or make does it well. I appreciate that so many compelling choices exist.

The standard RR seemed just as wide as the Sport (60" hip room). I didn't bother to test drive it because realistically we can't afford it...or rather, we don't want to throw that much money towards a car. Leasing is not an option because we won't get much, if any, tax benefits through the dental practice and we would get slaughtered on the mileage allowance since we put 18k-20k a year on "my car".

The wife is a diehard Lexus follower (without knowing it) and prizes reliability above all else. It will take time to educate her about the Range Rover Sport, which in her eyes looks like a bus or moving van. She doesn't have any brand awareness of Land Rover or even Jaguar. She does think the F-Pace looks nice. I simply asked that she experience the RRS before passing judgment. She still prefers to focus on the LS 460 search. Since you mention the RR reliability, staying the LS course is what we'll do.

For a sedan, the LS is still the top choice for me/us.

For an SUV, I personally would rather have the RRS than a Lexus. The RRS is comfortable, refined, yet fun to drive, just like the 2013 LS we considered and were ready to buy.

Junglequac

Glad you liked the Sport. It was the one I recommended you check out as well owing to it being on the same platform as the RR, while costing over a Corolla cheaper. Tata has worked miracles on both Jaguar and RR. Not sure if it is still the case, but when the latest RR was first introduced, there was a pretty long waiting list on it which is quite an accomplishment compared to their past generations.

While Land Rover has made great strides, reliability wise, I find it hard to believe it will come anywhere close to Lexus. That said, if not planning on owning it for 10 years, it would not stop me from buying a RRS.

If you can find an LX570 for a good deal, the resale down the road will be astounding. Especially if you purchase CPO or 2nd owner. That said, it is a frame on body traditional SUV covered with acres of leather and wood.

I am guessing after finding something of a unicorn SWB LS that it is hard at this point to look at more conventionally optioned LS's. Perhaps another similarly optioned LS will come down the pike not to mention the closer we come to the 500's introduction, the better the deals are going to get on brand new 4LS's and I am sure there is a similarly optioned SWB 460 out there somewhere. Perhaps the owner of one of the dealerships car as they always tend to order every option known to man and Lexus and there has got to be a few that would want the SWB.

salesguy

I too drove the RRS when I was shopping for my LS. I loved the refinement and feature set.

No way would I own one out of warranty. The dealer made a big deal about how they will come get the car if there is a warranty issue, so I'm not "inconvenienced" by having to bring it in. A good car to have if you have several others, so when it's being worked on you have something else to drive.

If you look at the reliability figures for luxury cars, Lexus is at the top and RR & Jag are at the bottom or dead last. Apparently it's hard to build an awesome car that is actually reliable as well.

aw001

Hi fatherto1,

I just got my 2014 LS460 AWD SWB 9 days ago and i am currently very happy with it. I suppose you are not in a rush to get one and have the luxury of time. I needed a car and surviving on the family van for ~3 weeks made me pulled the trigger on an accelerated basis. I also was very interested in getting the ultra lux package, but i ultimately decided i don't need it, even though i wanted it. The comfort package has some of the features...

I got twin boys @ 3 year old, thus bigger and comfort oriented car with good reliability is needed = BMW had to go!

In my mind 2 weeks ago, i get to choose 2 out of 3. time/ price/ exact spec aka wants

I took the first 2 since i managed to convinced myself the ultra lux is a want, but i don't need it. My passengers not gonna complain anyway! If they do, they can walk

Hope you get your ideal car! I will msg you if i come across the car you are hunting for. Just want to share my experience for the past one month.

aw001

Oh,

carmax in california got a 2014 LS460 SWB with RWD and ultra lux package 35k miles for $45k. No accidents but previously lease/ fleet. I still have one carfax report i can run on vin and unlimited reports on plate number. Will gladly run it and sent you report as needed. Let me know if i can help. And, full disclosure, i don't work at carmax.

Lexuslsguy

Speaking of the UL package, although I enjoyed having it in my 430 but unless you have someone to drive you around you never get to enjoy it. At least the rear seat package. Having massaging front seats is 1000% better. And not a mediocre vibrating "massage" to boot. I'm telling you, you don't know what you are missing until you feel the the massaging front seats in the A8. They are fantastic with many settings. The A8's seats are the best I have ever experienced.

I also would not trust the RR or Jaguar as far you could throw them which, is not very far. They have terrible reliability. Lexus and Audi are the best choices when it comes to reliability. The Audi will be a more expensive car to maintain though.

FatherTo1

Definitely this! Thanks for pointing out the RRS previously, Jungle. I was very impressed when I test drove a new one and so of course everything worked perfectly. Recurring maintenance issues would certainly sour the love affair since we're accustomed to taking reliability for granted after decades of Toyota/Lexus (and some Hondas).

Shudder. That is a shame about the reliability aspect that so many have touched on. Thanks, salesguy. I couldn't find any reliability data on the RRS through Consumer Reports (nor any history on the A8 either). I don't know how Consumer Reports chooses which cars to follow. Oh wait, perhaps not too many JLR owners send reliability surveys, nor subscribe, to Consumer Reports.

Thanks so much for the generous offer and help, aw001. Congratulations on your new LS and am glad the whole family is enjoying it.

Are you referring to that brownish LS in Pleasanton? If so, oddly a Carmax rep emailed last night and offered to transfer it to Sacramento for free. I took them up on the offer so I could take a closer look. Maybe I shouldn't have though because I don't really like the brown, but I haven't seen it in person. The interior cream leather looked nice. The brown wood looks a little plain compared to Shimomaku. Interestingly, just saw there is a second brown UltraLux in Modesto (an hour away) for a few thousand dollars less.

Thanks again for the VIN check offer. Greatly appreciate the support, my friend.

Thanks for the contribution, LSguy. The rear seat upgrade, although not benefitting me, is something I wish to have for the comfort of our family in the long run. I completely agree with you about the mediocre vibrating massage feature of the LS.

SW17LS

Thats actually a neat color in person. Its not really brown, its a brownish/burgundy color, its called Fire Agate Pearl. I thought about that color for myself.

aw001

Since the offer is for free transfer, go for it. Transfer on CarMax might be quick or takes a while. Took about 9 business days for me. I'm in "fly over land" though. If they got ultra luxury package with AWD, it would be ideal for me, but it was just a bonus. You might like the color when you see it in person.

Dave144239

Watch Doug DeMuro's report on his Range Rover. I sure wouldn't want one without a warranty, but they are beautiful vehicles.

FatherTo1

Simply, WOW. Granted, that is a 2006 but it doesn't give me confidence that the 2014 redesign would fix everything and not introduce new issues. Thank you, Dave. Too bad. Such a great vehicle when it's working properly.

Lexuslsguy

Pick yourself up a consumer reports auto buying guide. Very helpful when looking at various models.