SW17LS

I know multiple Hyundai/Kia owners, some of which have quite old Hyundai/Kias, none of which have any of these problems. I also post some on Kia forums (which are super lame), and have never read about any of the problems you mention.

roadfrog

Same here. Several family members as well as co-workers.....about 10 in all - and they all plan to buy Hyundai or Kia again. NONE have had ANY issue whatsoever, except my brother who had to replace a tail light assembly due to condensation.

Oliver Enterprises

They don't let many of these things escape the plant. They have a very robust repair center within the plant. And that is no joke. My sister's Sorento had 2 repairs done to it. A paint repair and I don't remember the 2nd repair. Neither were major. When I worked there (was when my sister bought her Sorento), I could plug VIN numbers in our internal system and see the whole build history. Very interesting stuff. And dealers complained about quality they were sent and would be reimbursed for repairs they did (or had done).

At the 2 plants I worked from, the rate of repair was in the 75%+ range. Meaning, 75%+ of the vehicles produced had to undergo some level of repair. Most minor. I am not exaggerating. But many vehicles were torn down to pulling the carpet out because there would be fasteners dropped on the floor, and carpeted over. Front and rear windows replaced all day long for urethane seal gaps. The ride on the test track would find said rattles and window hissing sounds. It was prominent enough that all the inspectors became proficient in immediately detecting problems in just a few seconds of driving. Several vehicles produced were bad enough, they would gang them up in a specific lot, and (at least this is how Hyundai approached this) would bring in a local construction company with some large piece of tractor type equipment with something heavy on a boom. I'll just mention that near the Kia Plant, there is a Caterpillar Forestry division. There is some kind of attachment that has 4 quadrants that open to go over something, and then clamp down on it for pulling / ripping. It looks like it would open over a stump, then clamp down on it and rip a stump out of the ground. But they're very heavy. Ask me how I know.

This piece of equipment would be brought to the plant, because these rejected vehicles all had VINs that could be stolen if taken outside the plant. There was an operator who became very proficient at using this piece of equipment. I had this on video on a previous cell phone. I still have that phone. I will go look for the video. But, I would probably get in trouble for posting it publicly. This guy would bring this thing down almost like at a 45° angle on each side of the car. And the car would just cave in (any car would). Then he would hit it straight down on what was left of the roof. It was sickening to watch this happen. The he would clamp it and pick up the vehicle like it was a hot wheel toy car and dump it in a pile and go to whomping the next car in this lot. It was sad to watch this. H/K claimed it was less expensive to do then than to repair or recover parts and pieces from these cars. Toyota NEVER did such a thing ... because THEY NEVER HAD TO!

Yet, I would buy a Hyundai - Kia (new) over a BMW or VW (new). But why would I buy a Hyundai - Kia if Toyota is still producing cars?

SW17LS

If those items are repaired in the plant, and they aren't affecting owners of the actual cars, why do I care? What matters to me is the quality of the product I have in my hands, and the quality of my Kia product is excellent.

Because Toyota doesn't really currently make any appealing cars IMHO. Its not a refrigerator purchase for me, I want to own cars that I look at them and enjoy them, enjoy being in them, and enjoy driving them. There is no current Toyota product where I would enjoy those things universally.

If I ever keep another car more than 4-5 years in my life I will be shocked...reliability and manufacturing excellence are great, but I love cars and I need to *want* my cars. Toyota makes nothing I *want*.

caverman

Do you lump Lexus in with that Toyota statement?

I have to agree that there really isn't anything Toyota specific I like but I definatley like some Lexus products. Although I've never sat in one, I bet I'm too big for an RC, but I think the RC-F would be and awesome car to drive. Of course I like the LS as well, not including the new LS500, I would have to see that in person. Also, another cool little car is the Scion FR-S in a manual. I think that would be cool to have for little while.

aw001

Jason,

I have read your postings, experience and opinions and can certainly understand your insider view. From a pure layman customer point of view, when most people shell out money to get a car, they want a car that is comfortable, reliable and good performance (with understandable varying degree of importance here, and some other aspects too)

I suppose they see the "end product" Most people don't know, realize or may be care about how the car "came about" Some might say the repair section being part of the factory is a good thing! Yes, they build "sub-par" cars compared to toyota - because hyundai/ kia has not streamlined the building process. They know that and that is why they have "repair sections". I suppose that's their quality control. If any car fail, destroy it.

In the end, customer don't want to know how the product is being produced. Some people don't want to know how the chicken ended up in the aisle. Heck, they might think chicken grow on trees! I suppose human are selfish by default.

Cheap i phone is good, reliable i phone is also good, who cares about the "slaves"

By no means i think you are wrong... Maybe you should see it as korean cars are born, then any babies with issues are thrown off the cliff and the ones deemed economic enough/ not too defective are "trained" and groomed and hopefully become a good/cheaper/ reliable soldier? I know, too much sparta/ moview reference...


alex.

SW17LS

No, still many Lexus models that appeal to me, for sure. Most. All may not be my first choice in their segments, but with Toyota, the only current model I can think of that wouldn't be my LAST choice in its segment is the Highlander.

Lexus vehicles that don't appeal to me, the RX, GX, IS, CT...

rgs92

The only Toyota I would buy is the Sequoia. I sat in all the Toyotas at the car show and that was the only one that was comfy and seemed really solid and substantial.

FatherTo1

Substantial, it is. It is ginormous ever since the 2008 redesign. I'm sure it is spacious and very roomy, but so was our 2002 Sequoia and the current one dwarfs the 2002. I actually cross-shopped the 2008+ Sequoia while hunting for an LS but the Sequoia is almost a menace on the road. Way too big, but that's good if you can use the space. I didn't think the interior was great though.

SW17LS

The Sequoia is fine, but I wouldn't buy it over the much more modern competitiors out there

rgs92

LOL, the image of a G90 slaughterhouse with big yellow Caterpillar bulldozers flattening them is like something from the Simpsons or Southpark. I hope I don't have nightmares.

Oliver Enterprises

Just saw this today. An interesting read: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2017/06/lemon-list.html

SW17LS

Agendas agendas lol

yardie876

That “least lemon” list had my head about to explode lol.

SW17LS

I can't think of a more pointless list. "Number of mentions of "lemon" on communities?!? There is no statistical value to this measure at all...