SW17LS

All I can tell you is my Hyundai/Kia vehicle is built more solidly than any Lexus I've had made past 2004. I judge that based on creaks and rattles in the interior, Sedona has none. Last Lexus I had which had none was my 2004 LS.

I'm just not at all convinced that Lexus/Toyota makes anything special anymore from that standpoint. Other manufacturers have improved tremendously and they've slipped somewhat.

FatherTo1

I'm not discounting your first-hand, professional experience inside both corporations, J.O., but wouldn't it be possible for Hyundai to poach top management and engineering talent from competitors in a bid to make their cars more appealing, both from a styling and design standpoint? I will reserve judgment until I drive a Hyundai, but I must say I'm a little disappointed at the following design decisions/issues on our 2013 LS:

1. Glove compartment and trim piece beneath the glove box that had a tendency to bulge and prevented you from opening the glove box. 2006 LS 430 never had this issue, nor did any other car I've owned in my life.
2. The fact that you can't get the rear-camera to come back on while in Reverse if you hit any radio buttons while backing up. Affects both LS 430 and LS 460.
3. Whomever designed the B-pillar and seats did not do a thorough enough test because if you move either front seats all the way forward, then hit the memory to set them back to your desired position, the belt buckle tends to get trapped at an angle where the hard plastic buckle trim will literally wedge itself between the B-pillar and side bolster of the seat, leaving a deep divot. This has happened to me multiple times and now I have to be mindful of how the seat memory operates. This never ever happened on previous Toyotas and Lexus with seat memory or power seats.

I have a stronger affection towards our 460 than our previous 430, but I must admit the 430 gave us less hassle. I am keeping an open mind on Hyundai/Genesis, if only to spur Toyota/Lexus to regain their game.

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

I think someone willing to pay $80 000 usd for a hyundai has really lost all sense of adventure and passion from their life

When you look at all the other cars out there you can buy for that price point it really makes a person wonder

SW17LS

Well the G90 doesn't cost $80,000 first off lol. $67-72k. Take $10k off of that for discounts too. Plenty of people say the same thing about the LS, "why would anybody pay so much for a Toyota?" If I had a dollar for every German car fan I know who has laughed at and made fun of my Lexus cars I could have paid for the latest one with the money lol. If I cared what people thought I wouldn't have been a Lexus owner as long as I have been.

If you want a big flagship luxury car of that type, there's nothing else you can buy for the money a G90 costs.

Nguyenazn

If whatever it costs more then $60, i would either go with BMW, Merz or Lexus !

SW17LS

That's just it, you can't buy the same sort of Lexus, BMW or Mercedes for $60,000. In a BMW or Mercedes you'll be in a 4 cyl 5 or E Class for $60k.

SW17LS

Meant to reply to this earlier but I was on the road.

That 4ES, despite the terribly shifting transmission is a beast though. Very well built, incredibly reliable car. I sold my 03 to my aunt in 2010 when I got the ES350, and it has 195k on it now and still drives like a champ, I drove it a couple weeks ago. Drives tight, no rattles or squeaks at all...80 on the highway feels stable on the original struts! Really not much has been done to it, I did lower control arms in 2010, its had a starter, and alternator, its had a couple gasket leaks done, and thats it. Timing belts obviously. It drives like a car with 50k miles on it.

Sure its no LS430 or certainly LS460, but it was a lot more car than Lexus provides in the ES today IMHO. Materials inside were much better, etc. Remember, an ES300/330 was $30k less than an LS430...if the LS430 wasn't a lot better you'd have a lot of P-Oed buyers lol.

I don't love the look of the G90, its okay looking IMHO. I think the LS460 and the LS500 are better looking. The interior is nicer in the G90 than what we have in the LS460, remains to be seen about the LS500. Ride and drive are almost identical to an LS460, which is great in my book.

Lexus used to do that! Not LS loaners, but in the 90s and early 2000s they would come out in a loaner, pick up your Lexus and bring it in for service and then bring it back. Lexus service is a pale shadow of what it used to be...its really not even recognizable anymore.

FatherTo1

Completely agree. The wife's 06 ES has had the starter replaced outside of normal oil changes, brake pads/rotors, and tires, timing belt, water pump, air filters. Nothing else needed for 122K miles. Despite the jerky 3rd-4th gear shift sometimes, her car is still quiet (no rattles) and rides very well. So we'll that she can easily drive this car another 10 years or 100K. At least it gives that impression. Yes, drives like it only has 50K miles or less. The temperature is missing a segment on the digital numbers but everything else works like new. Now that I remember, I've only had to replace one HID bulb too at around 100K miles but elected to replace them both. Extremely reliable car and the leather has held up excellently too. Wife sees no reason to change cars. It is paid for and she has a lot of sentimental value attached to it, being the first car she bought on her own. She wants to keep it forever and it's hard to argue against that because the car is still in such great condition and operation.

riknchar

L8RSk8R: It sounds like you had great success with your 2014 Equus -- anything special to report, problem-wise in your 170K miles?

I've been looking for a replacement for my 2008 LS600hL (83K miles, but still running great with no problems). I was initially looking for a 2013+ LS 460L or 600hL, but have started widening my search. I drove a new G90 a couple of weeks ago, and was very impressed. It was the V6 TT model, but was very powerful, quiet, and refined (like my LS). I loved the huge list of standard features, and the lease price was pretty good (under $800 a month including tax, zero down). I saw that Hyundai/Genesis came out on top of the recent Initial Quality Surveys, which is amazing given the history of the brand.

I then discovered a used 2014 Equus on the local Hyundai lot. I didn't know anything about that model, but it looked really sharp. I drove it and was really amazed at how well it stacked up to my LS. It was obvious the Equus was directly targeting the Lexus LS, but it really nailed the best qualities of my LS (in my opinion) while offering a TON of luxury amenities my LS doesn't have (lane departure warning, heads-up display, dual-screen rear-seat monitors, blind spot detection, cross-traffic alert, etc.).

I actually did more research on the Equus and I'm really leaning that route right now. Hyundai really hasn't quite gotten a toe-hold on the luxury market just yet, so the depreciation on the Equus is intense. I found a one-owner 2014 Equus Ultimate in the color combo I love (white with ivory interior) and only 11K miles for $34K via CarMax in Fort Worth TX. I'm having it shipped in to my local CarMax so I can take a closer look and a test drive. I believe an equivalent Lexus LS in the same year/mileage would cost around $55-60K... I love Lexus, but am definitely willing to give the Equus a try.

Any other thoughts on buying a 2014 Equus? Thanks!

Oliver Enterprises

Yes, it happens all the time. That's how I wound up there. But in my case, The Warden didn't enjoy living in Michigan and was making life ... not great. Since a Hyundai recruiter had been bugging me for over a year, I took an opportunity with Hyundai to move back down south to appease the wife. And have regretted it ever since. Toyota is the only company I have regretted leaving. The general consensus among those non-Koreans that leave a company to join Hyundai is, that they'd rather shove an icepick in their ear than to go to work to see the shenanigans that goes on daily.

You can sway other top professionals in the industry, but you cannot break the Korean / Hyundai mindset. It's not a Korean thing, Korean people are GREAT. It's the mindset the top leaders put on ALL the employees. I spent longer at Hyundai than Toyota. I never spent one thin dime on a Hyundai, and never will. I don't see the point. Why would I bother buying a Hyundai / Kia vehicle when Toyota exists? It's not logical to me. It would be like going into some pastry shop and looking at cupcakes. They have a $1 cupcake that just came out of the oven and was frosted. Then they have some over to the side that look just as great, but have been sitting there for 4 days. The 4 day old ones are 85 cents. Why, in the name of logic would I buy the old nasty stale one? Now that analogy is from my perspective. They look just alike. The pastry shop is not going to tell you the other ones are 4 days old. But I've seen the innards of both beasts. I know the cars, I know the goings on, I know the mindset. 15 cents is nothing, I know $15k dollars is. But to date, I've never purchased a car new or used that cost me more than $35k. So in my perspective, a new $30k Toyota would be like about a new $25k Hyundai / Kia. No way in hell I'm going to save $5k and choose a H/K over a Toyota. But that's just me.

My reasoning on that is that in the long run, I'm going to spend more than $5k worth of money, time and aggravation dealing with the H/K vehicle. Not that I won't have expense and aggravation with the Toyota, but it is almost guaranteed I will have more expense and aggravation with the H/K. And, conversely on the short term: If I were to sell either of those new vehicles in 2 years time. The $25k Hyundai would likely private sale like $10k. The Toyota after 2 years probably $19k. Lost $11k on the Toyota, lost $15k on the H/K. The value of H/K vehicles just TANK. And it is not a simply reason, and it is not *just* the vehicle quality or reputation either. There are other reasons, that I won't even touch.

The styling of the vehicles is quite nice. The G90 looks great. The interior styling is great. However, you can put lipstick on a pig, but that doesn't make me wanna kiss that pig.

The '03 Camry I procured from my parents last year (who procured it from Toyota through my discount while I was an engineer with them), is outstanding. A lot like the ES 350 you guys are talking about. Just not as luxurious as the ES.

SW17LS

Why would one buy a Hyundai/Kia when Toyota exists? Because they make a more compelling car IMHO. There isn't one Toyota branded product out right now I would have any interest in owning. They feel crappy and cheap inside, they're awkward looking...seriously in every segment I would buy the Hyundai Kia equivalent. Been that way for some time now. The new Camry looks much improved, maybe it shows hope, I look forward to seeing it inside. The rest of the cars are mediocre IMHO.

On the Lexus side of things it's different, still multiple compelling products IMHO...we'll see what the future holds.

However, I would with confidence get a G90, certainly on a 3 year lease. Save $300 a month over a less equipped LS. The savings is almost silly.

riknchar

I know that Lexus has a reputation for low depreciation, but I can't see that is currently the case for the LS models (especially the LS600s).

I bought my 2008 LS600hL in July 2014 for $43K as a CPO car. So that car depreciated from its original cost of $110K to around $36K (about what I'm guessing Lexus paid to the original owner). I had hoped that most of the depreciation had already been wrung out of the car when I bought it in 2014 (as a 6-year old car), but I was wrong. In the 3 years I've owned it, the car has depreciated from the $43K I paid to a current Trade-In price of around $18K. OUCH!

So the thought of buying a 3-year old Equus with 11K miles for 50% of its original MSRP doesn't really seem that far out of line with the depreciation I've seen on my LS.

Luxury cars depreciate! Sad fact, but it works to the benefit of those of us who like to buy nice used models!

SW17LS

The 600 depreciates WAY worse than the 460, can't use that as an example. The LS460 holds its value better than other flagship luxury models.

rgs92

Mr. Oliver, actually, it was your postings here that made me decide to buy my '14 Lexus LS CPO vs. a new G90 a few months ago, and so far so good, not one defect at all. I was considering both. So thanks. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Oliver Enterprises

rgs92 - I hope it continues being trouble free. In my opinion, two really great things you did was, 1) You avoided the high depreciation all brand new vehicles suffer, and b) even greater initial depreciation of a Hyundai-Kia vehicle. I think you made a very wise financial choice.

For those of you that bought a Hyundai-Kia, I'm not criticizing you personally, or insinuating that you're dumb. Not at all. The Hyundai-Kia vehicles really look nice these days. I'm just totally biased having had experience with both companies. I honestly hope that your ownership goes as completely trouble free as possible. None of those pesky frequent burnt out bulbs, or totally missing suspension components, self-denting doors, cracking paint on parting lines (up in crevices), plastic clips that pop out like a champagne cork when the body part is flexed just right, deicer fires and/or the toxic fumes given off just prior, sunroof sunshades that smell like ***, clip tower stress marks on A-Pillars, mouse-holes from one end of the car to the other.

I think after this reply about Hyundai Kia vehicles, I'm going to just let it go. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions ... even if they're wrong!