What a 2010 Audi S5 teaches me about my LS
08-17-16, 07:22 AM
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
What a 2010 Audi S5 teaches me about my LS
Odd topic, but figure eventually someone else may be in my same boat. I have a 2004 LS430 (bought 2008) that now has 237k miles. FWIW, we also have a 2010 LX570. For over a year I was kicking tires on a '10-'12 LS460 ('13 was out of price range) - one day I found a '11 that was exactly what I wanted. Silver on grey (exact same color combo as my '04) - the 19" 5 star wheels, Levinson, CPO, and offered at my local dealer for a very fair price. I took my wife and kids with me to test drive it with the intention of buying it on the spot. My wife took one look at the interior and said "other than the navigation, this looks exactly like your car." She didn't want to test drive it - and basically told me "buy it if you want it, but it looks so similar to your car it seems like a weird purchase." As I have posted here before, I also was a bit hesitant to buy a car that was laid out and drove so similarly to my 2004... so I started thinking I may want to make a big change and buy something sporty to drive and radically different than my car. A car I have always admired was the Audi S5- and I found one locally that was perfect - 2010 Prestige model, 6 speed manual, 49k miles. I read on the '01-'06 LS forum and saw what people were paying for used '04's and got depressed that my car would be worth so little...so I decided I would keep my LS for a little while. I drive quite a bit for work and have two kids, so figured the LS would be my primary vehicle for work and hauling the kids but the S5 will be a weekend car and something fun for my wife to escape the monster LX. Here is what I have learned so far:
- Interior: Others here have said it and I will agree: Audi and other German manufacturers have completely lapped Lexus in the interior layout. Comparing the '10 Audi to the '10 LX570 and '10-'12 LS460 is not even close. The Audi MMI (multimedia interface) is absolutely incredible and intuitive. You can control everything for the entire car with a few buttons and the turning dial. Once you know the button placement, you can easily do everything while driving and not looking down at the ***** or buttons. I am really impressed with this. I haven't spent much time in a '13 LS but would be surprised if the '13 is as well thought-out as the 2010 Audi. The only place I'll give Lexus an edge is for the AC vent placement- my 2004 LS at level 2 fan speed provides way more direct AC than the S5 at 60% or 70% fan speed (I live in FL- so AC is really important about 5 months out of the year- especially now)
- Stereo: The Audi Bang & Olufsen and Mark Levinson are probably pretty similar- it's hard to compare given the size difference of the cars. My '04 doesn't have Levinson but was a requirement when I was shopping for '10's-'12's and I tested the sound quite a bit.
- Gas mileage: The S5 I bought has the 4.2 liter V8 - and for an entire week I drove it as easy as I could to see how well it would do on gas- in a week where I drove 75% around town, I got 17.4 mpg in the Audi. In my LS I would have gotten 20-22 mpg. Granted the 6 gears of the S5 are set up for sportier/aggressive driving and my RPM's are higher in every gear, it's still really impressive that Lexus developed a very fuel efficient V8 for such a heavy car. I consistently average 27 mpg in my LS on long highway trips with cruise set at 80.
- Ride: I have changed every setting on the Audi to "comfort" as I prefer to feel as little of the road as possible. The cars are obviously very different and I absolutely love driving the Audi (on-ramps are truly special)...but last night as I was driving home from dinner in the LS, I couldn't help but think how much I enjoy the serenity of the LS- I was on a freshly paved road and it was absolutely silent and so smooth.
- Misc: In the 8 years of owning my LS, no one has ever tried to race me. They know I'm not in a hurry, and they also have no interest in seeing what an old LS is capable of. Different story in the Audi- in my first 2 weeks of ownership, I had a Dodge Ram Hemi pickup truck, Volkswagen GTI, BMW M3, and BMW 535 all try to race me in one way or another. It's pretty comical how often it happens- not my thing but it's funny how people want to mess with you in a car like that.
Summary: As has been discussed on here about folks driving new S class and 750's, I agree the Germans are ahead of the game in the interior setup and especially the media/nav interface. I also think they're doing a better job with exterior styling. The sound of the S5's V8 is awesome and turns heads in my neighborhood...But if you like to ride in a quiet, serene and plush car, absolutely nothing compares to our LS's (other than a Rolls I assume). And on top of that, the reliability I have experienced with both of my LS's, plus a GX, plus our current LX has been really solid. The relaxing drive last night reminded me of why I have been such a big LS fan- I enjoy driving something big, heavy, quiet, smooth, reliable (and not drawing attention of folks who want to race..) I bought a car that I thought may make me want to sell my 13 year old LS430, but quickly realized how much I appreciate the LS.
I assume some time in the next 12-18 months I will get sick of playing musical cars in my garage/driveway and will decide to ditch the 3 car concept- so I will sell the S5 and the LS 430 in exchange for a '13 or '14 LS460 (they should be in my price range at that point). In short, know why you like the LS...because if you get rid of it you may quickly find that no other brand offers what you're looking for.
- Interior: Others here have said it and I will agree: Audi and other German manufacturers have completely lapped Lexus in the interior layout. Comparing the '10 Audi to the '10 LX570 and '10-'12 LS460 is not even close. The Audi MMI (multimedia interface) is absolutely incredible and intuitive. You can control everything for the entire car with a few buttons and the turning dial. Once you know the button placement, you can easily do everything while driving and not looking down at the ***** or buttons. I am really impressed with this. I haven't spent much time in a '13 LS but would be surprised if the '13 is as well thought-out as the 2010 Audi. The only place I'll give Lexus an edge is for the AC vent placement- my 2004 LS at level 2 fan speed provides way more direct AC than the S5 at 60% or 70% fan speed (I live in FL- so AC is really important about 5 months out of the year- especially now)
- Stereo: The Audi Bang & Olufsen and Mark Levinson are probably pretty similar- it's hard to compare given the size difference of the cars. My '04 doesn't have Levinson but was a requirement when I was shopping for '10's-'12's and I tested the sound quite a bit.
- Gas mileage: The S5 I bought has the 4.2 liter V8 - and for an entire week I drove it as easy as I could to see how well it would do on gas- in a week where I drove 75% around town, I got 17.4 mpg in the Audi. In my LS I would have gotten 20-22 mpg. Granted the 6 gears of the S5 are set up for sportier/aggressive driving and my RPM's are higher in every gear, it's still really impressive that Lexus developed a very fuel efficient V8 for such a heavy car. I consistently average 27 mpg in my LS on long highway trips with cruise set at 80.
- Ride: I have changed every setting on the Audi to "comfort" as I prefer to feel as little of the road as possible. The cars are obviously very different and I absolutely love driving the Audi (on-ramps are truly special)...but last night as I was driving home from dinner in the LS, I couldn't help but think how much I enjoy the serenity of the LS- I was on a freshly paved road and it was absolutely silent and so smooth.
- Misc: In the 8 years of owning my LS, no one has ever tried to race me. They know I'm not in a hurry, and they also have no interest in seeing what an old LS is capable of. Different story in the Audi- in my first 2 weeks of ownership, I had a Dodge Ram Hemi pickup truck, Volkswagen GTI, BMW M3, and BMW 535 all try to race me in one way or another. It's pretty comical how often it happens- not my thing but it's funny how people want to mess with you in a car like that.
Summary: As has been discussed on here about folks driving new S class and 750's, I agree the Germans are ahead of the game in the interior setup and especially the media/nav interface. I also think they're doing a better job with exterior styling. The sound of the S5's V8 is awesome and turns heads in my neighborhood...But if you like to ride in a quiet, serene and plush car, absolutely nothing compares to our LS's (other than a Rolls I assume). And on top of that, the reliability I have experienced with both of my LS's, plus a GX, plus our current LX has been really solid. The relaxing drive last night reminded me of why I have been such a big LS fan- I enjoy driving something big, heavy, quiet, smooth, reliable (and not drawing attention of folks who want to race..) I bought a car that I thought may make me want to sell my 13 year old LS430, but quickly realized how much I appreciate the LS.
I assume some time in the next 12-18 months I will get sick of playing musical cars in my garage/driveway and will decide to ditch the 3 car concept- so I will sell the S5 and the LS 430 in exchange for a '13 or '14 LS460 (they should be in my price range at that point). In short, know why you like the LS...because if you get rid of it you may quickly find that no other brand offers what you're looking for.
08-17-16, 08:13 AM
#2
Pole Position
Enjoyable read, thank you!
While I haven't test driven any of the German cars, their interiors do look awesome. The main quibble I have with the BMW and Audi interiors is on the dash. I hate that the Nav screen pops up out of the dashboard. Agreed, the dash looks gorgeous and streamlined without the Nav screen. But the pop up screen absolutes destroys the beautiful lines and doesn't work for me.
I feel that the mouse/button system in the 2013+ LS is not very good. The touchscreen in the previous generation was much easier to use. I have read that the Audi MMI system is among the best. Let's hope the 2018LS system will come close to matching it.
While I haven't test driven any of the German cars, their interiors do look awesome. The main quibble I have with the BMW and Audi interiors is on the dash. I hate that the Nav screen pops up out of the dashboard. Agreed, the dash looks gorgeous and streamlined without the Nav screen. But the pop up screen absolutes destroys the beautiful lines and doesn't work for me.
I feel that the mouse/button system in the 2013+ LS is not very good. The touchscreen in the previous generation was much easier to use. I have read that the Audi MMI system is among the best. Let's hope the 2018LS system will come close to matching it.
08-17-16, 10:06 AM
#3
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Enjoyable read, thank you!
While I haven't test driven any of the German cars, their interiors do look awesome. The main quibble I have with the BMW and Audi interiors is on the dash. I hate that the Nav screen pops up out of the dashboard. Agreed, the dash looks gorgeous and streamlined without the Nav screen. But the pop up screen absolutes destroys the beautiful lines and doesn't work for me.
I feel that the mouse/button system in the 2013+ LS is not very good. The touchscreen in the previous generation was much easier to use. I have read that the Audi MMI system is among the best. Let's hope the 2018LS system will come close to matching it.
While I haven't test driven any of the German cars, their interiors do look awesome. The main quibble I have with the BMW and Audi interiors is on the dash. I hate that the Nav screen pops up out of the dashboard. Agreed, the dash looks gorgeous and streamlined without the Nav screen. But the pop up screen absolutes destroys the beautiful lines and doesn't work for me.
I feel that the mouse/button system in the 2013+ LS is not very good. The touchscreen in the previous generation was much easier to use. I have read that the Audi MMI system is among the best. Let's hope the 2018LS system will come close to matching it.
Here's a pic of the screen and also the way you control everything. Near the stick shift is the circular wheel for navigating the MMI and also 8 buttons (4 on each side) that control every aspect of the car (Radio, Media, Car, Setup, Nav, Telephone, Names, etc). Once you push one of the 8 buttons, that button turns red (showing you it is selected) and it launches the options of what you can do on the MMI screen. Turning the wheel like a volume button navigates you up and down your options (to get to what you want), then depressing the wheel (like pressing a mouse button) selects that option and takes you into a more detailed menu. Here's where it is brilliant- once in the detailed menu, the center of the MMI screen gives you options...but on each of the 4 corners of the screen are "shortcuts" to common tasks or in some cases another more detailed sub-sub-menu. The wheel itself is also surrounded by 4 buttons (also like mouse buttons) that correspond to whatever you see on the 4 corners of the screen. Ex: see a shortcut on top left of the screen, push the button that is top left of the control wheel. This allows you to do a ton of things with minimal "clicks" or "scrolls" or having to dive into tons of sub-menus to do anything. One of my buddies had a BMW 5 series and said it would take him around 7 or 8 "clicks" just to switch from CD to satellite radio... So sometimes common tasks are way too difficult, but this MMI is incredible and something I really hope Lexus puts a lot of thought into in the redesign. It only took a few minutes to master it and understand it and I can do everything I want while cruising down the highway and not be distracted- the placement of the wheel, buttons, etc. is very well thought out.
Don't want to hijack a Lexus forum talking about Audi, instead my point is to demonstrate that if Lexus learns from other manufacturers and makes some improvements here we will all be in for a treat...
08-17-16, 01:36 PM
#4
I agree with jrmckinley. Audi MMI is truly one of the best interfaces I've ever used. The new mouse interface on the newer Lexus's is quite good and reminds me of the MMI in my A6. Also one of the most amazing things that Audi has are the steering wheel controls: I absolutely LOVE them. I don't know why other manufacturers insist on using buttons for things like volume control when a scrolling wheel is perfect for that sort of thing. Technology wise, any Audi, BMW, or Mercedes is going to be miles ahead of the LS.There are these little things that my Audi does that I really wish the LS did.. Things that you don't realize you like until you don't have them.
Otherwise the cars are so dissimilar it's hard to compare them.
Otherwise the cars are so dissimilar it's hard to compare them.
08-17-16, 01:43 PM
#5
it's really all a matter of preference.
only problem with audi is that you can't own them after warranty period. With lexus you can.
repair bills for audi bmw benz can easily get into 5000 to 10,000 dollars in a matter of 2 or 3 months.
only problem with audi is that you can't own them after warranty period. With lexus you can.
repair bills for audi bmw benz can easily get into 5000 to 10,000 dollars in a matter of 2 or 3 months.
08-17-16, 02:19 PM
#6
Intermediate
I have owned an Audi S8. Cool car, but over engineered and had big issues once it hit 100K miles. The guy I sold it to lost the trans. at 125K miles.
How was your reliability with the S5?
How was your reliability with the S5?
08-17-16, 03:34 PM
#7
Pole Position
Trending Topics
08-17-16, 07:31 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
The haptic feedback sounds good (I don't have it in my 2014, but have used it in loaners), but in practice, using the mouse is more cumbersome and distracting compared to the previous touchscreen. I can get to most options in 3-4 clicks max, but it is positioning the mouse that is a pain at times. I don't know how this compares to the BMW and Mercedes systems, and would definitely like to see how it stacks up to the Audi MMI.
08-17-16, 07:58 PM
#9
The haptic feedback sounds good (I don't have it in my 2014, but have used it in loaners), but in practice, using the mouse is more cumbersome and distracting compared to the previous touchscreen. I can get to most options in 3-4 clicks max, but it is positioning the mouse that is a pain at times. I don't know how this compares to the BMW and Mercedes systems, and would definitely like to see how it stacks up to the Audi MMI.
Mercedes and BMW's systems aren't quite as good as MMI in my opinion, but they're all still very good.
08-17-16, 08:18 PM
#10
Informative post. Nice to read something "different."
Yes, there's definitely something special about the LS models. Just about everything feels special and high quality inside. It's hard for me to accurately define luxury with words, but I know it when I see it / sit in it. The LS is luxury. The ride is incredibly smooth and quiet. It's a luxury cocoon. Though it doesn't meet many of my perf-related criteria, I can't help myself from daydreaming from time to time about owning one... your comment about effortlessly floating down the road really resonates with me. To tell the truth, my "new" car has oodles of performance though I rarely tap into it. My AM and PM commutes are just too "full" of other cars.
I started to to come to that realization when I was test driving cars a few years ago. In hindsight, the super supportive seats in the '14 SRT Jeep Grand Cherokee would be overkill for my boring am and pm work commute and it wasn't a lux suv. The exhaust rumble in the '12ish CTS-V would be too much some days not to mention the even more aggressively bolstered seats. When I'm being more honest with myself (rare?!), there are more days that I'd prefer being ensconced in a LS than whipping (or wishing about whipping) around in a hi-po auto. That said, autos with big time go pedals bring me bigger smiles and ultimately win the day. It's neither right, wrong nor indifferent... it just is.
One more comment about Audi. When I was test driving cars a few years ago, I was absolutely blown away by the interior in a '13ish Audi S4 - which is about the same as your S5. The feel and heft of just about everything felt incredibly high quality AND this was their entry-level car at the time! Audi indeed makes a good looking, good feeling interior. Congrats on your sweet "new" coupe. Did yours come with the Optic package?
Yes, there's definitely something special about the LS models. Just about everything feels special and high quality inside. It's hard for me to accurately define luxury with words, but I know it when I see it / sit in it. The LS is luxury. The ride is incredibly smooth and quiet. It's a luxury cocoon. Though it doesn't meet many of my perf-related criteria, I can't help myself from daydreaming from time to time about owning one... your comment about effortlessly floating down the road really resonates with me. To tell the truth, my "new" car has oodles of performance though I rarely tap into it. My AM and PM commutes are just too "full" of other cars.
I started to to come to that realization when I was test driving cars a few years ago. In hindsight, the super supportive seats in the '14 SRT Jeep Grand Cherokee would be overkill for my boring am and pm work commute and it wasn't a lux suv. The exhaust rumble in the '12ish CTS-V would be too much some days not to mention the even more aggressively bolstered seats. When I'm being more honest with myself (rare?!), there are more days that I'd prefer being ensconced in a LS than whipping (or wishing about whipping) around in a hi-po auto. That said, autos with big time go pedals bring me bigger smiles and ultimately win the day. It's neither right, wrong nor indifferent... it just is.
One more comment about Audi. When I was test driving cars a few years ago, I was absolutely blown away by the interior in a '13ish Audi S4 - which is about the same as your S5. The feel and heft of just about everything felt incredibly high quality AND this was their entry-level car at the time! Audi indeed makes a good looking, good feeling interior. Congrats on your sweet "new" coupe. Did yours come with the Optic package?
08-17-16, 08:58 PM
#11
Pole Position
Thanks, guys, I will check it out. I think I selected the max setting for the mouse to "snap" onto buttons, maybe that minimizes haptic feedback. I don't recall a setting to turn off haptic feedback.
08-17-16, 08:59 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
That snapping is the haptic feedback...don't you feel it "snap" through the cursor pad?
08-17-16, 09:19 PM
#13
Pole Position
You mean the joystick, right? I guess it snaps on the screen but I expect to feel a stronger feedback through the joystick. I feel the feedback very nicely on the cursor/mouse pad while driving loaner 2015/16 RX and NX. I will play around with it, maybe some setting is a bit off.
08-17-16, 10:09 PM
#14
Audi, BMW and MB are more expensive and the quality is far superior plus they offer features not available on the current LS. All three handles better than the LS. I test drove the new Caddy CT6 and it was very disappointing and the ride wasn't as smooth as I had expected. The instrument panel reminded of the old video arcade games and just to much going on there. The CT6 brakes seems weak and I believe my brother 2015 Buick Lacrosse rides better. Cadillac need to take the CT6 back to the designing dept. and the quality isn't there. But back to my 460, I'm still contented and wouldn't trade it for none of the others. My 460 is basically simple and self explanatory and no need to bring out the car manuals that now stored on many luxury cars hard drive. Still can't wait to see what the next generation LS looks like and what it has to offer.
08-18-16, 06:18 AM
#15
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Informative post. Nice to read something "different."
Yes, there's definitely something special about the LS models. Just about everything feels special and high quality inside. It's hard for me to accurately define luxury with words, but I know it when I see it / sit in it. The LS is luxury. The ride is incredibly smooth and quiet. It's a luxury cocoon. Though it doesn't meet many of my perf-related criteria, I can't help myself from daydreaming from time to time about owning one... your comment about effortlessly floating down the road really resonates with me. To tell the truth, my "new" car has oodles of performance though I rarely tap into it. My AM and PM commutes are just too "full" of other cars.
I started to to come to that realization when I was test driving cars a few years ago. In hindsight, the super supportive seats in the '14 SRT Jeep Grand Cherokee would be overkill for my boring am and pm work commute and it wasn't a lux suv. The exhaust rumble in the '12ish CTS-V would be too much some days not to mention the even more aggressively bolstered seats. When I'm being more honest with myself (rare?!), there are more days that I'd prefer being ensconced in a LS than whipping (or wishing about whipping) around in a hi-po auto. That said, autos with big time go pedals bring me bigger smiles and ultimately win the day. It's neither right, wrong nor indifferent... it just is.
One more comment about Audi. When I was test driving cars a few years ago, I was absolutely blown away by the interior in a '13ish Audi S4 - which is about the same as your S5. The feel and heft of just about everything felt incredibly high quality AND this was their entry-level car at the time! Audi indeed makes a good looking, good feeling interior. Congrats on your sweet "new" coupe. Did yours come with the Optic package?
Yes, there's definitely something special about the LS models. Just about everything feels special and high quality inside. It's hard for me to accurately define luxury with words, but I know it when I see it / sit in it. The LS is luxury. The ride is incredibly smooth and quiet. It's a luxury cocoon. Though it doesn't meet many of my perf-related criteria, I can't help myself from daydreaming from time to time about owning one... your comment about effortlessly floating down the road really resonates with me. To tell the truth, my "new" car has oodles of performance though I rarely tap into it. My AM and PM commutes are just too "full" of other cars.
I started to to come to that realization when I was test driving cars a few years ago. In hindsight, the super supportive seats in the '14 SRT Jeep Grand Cherokee would be overkill for my boring am and pm work commute and it wasn't a lux suv. The exhaust rumble in the '12ish CTS-V would be too much some days not to mention the even more aggressively bolstered seats. When I'm being more honest with myself (rare?!), there are more days that I'd prefer being ensconced in a LS than whipping (or wishing about whipping) around in a hi-po auto. That said, autos with big time go pedals bring me bigger smiles and ultimately win the day. It's neither right, wrong nor indifferent... it just is.
One more comment about Audi. When I was test driving cars a few years ago, I was absolutely blown away by the interior in a '13ish Audi S4 - which is about the same as your S5. The feel and heft of just about everything felt incredibly high quality AND this was their entry-level car at the time! Audi indeed makes a good looking, good feeling interior. Congrats on your sweet "new" coupe. Did yours come with the Optic package?