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Just as a point of clarification...the LS is the #3 vehicle in the segment, it outsells the A8 and the XJ, and before the redesign it traded the #2 spot with the 7 Series.
Low sales figures are just the reality in this segment now. Even the S Class only does maybe 40-50% of the volume it used to.
Do you suggest we only look at "US" segments? Let's start with total luxury units sold 2014: Audi 1.1 million vs Lexus 523k. Then we can move onto Europe:
S- 25,276
A8- 6,566
BMW7- 5,307
LS- 173
*The S nearly doubled its 2013 sales. Please feel free to share your sources. If you want to see a phenomenon, check the 1999 s-class "fair-well model" sales. As previously mentioned: the model had outstanding handling; all while being softly sprung & sold a lot of cars in its exit year.
My source is posed in the Car Chat forum every month. All the manufacturers us sales are posted there. They're also on Wikipedia for every model you want to see.
The LS has never sold well at all in Europe, Lexus as a brand doesn't do very well in Europe. I'm talking now about US sales, I don't really care about foreign sales from the scope of Lexus.
My point is, and it's a valid point whether you choose to accept it or not, the large luxury car segment is a fraction of what it used to be. While LS sales are down no question, for it to remain in 2nd/3rd position (which is what it's always been) as old as it is is a good thing, not a bad thing.
If you dislike your LS or want some Mercedes or something, buy one.
Why post segment data if it's not actually segment data?
I won't address anything else you typed
The point still stands even worldwide, if you look at sales of large luxury cars, they are a fraction of what they once were. A lot of high end buyers and moved to SUVs, etc.
Theres no way to address anything else I said because they are all facts..
The point still stands even worldwide, if you look at sales of large luxury cars, they are a fraction of what they once were. A lot of high end buyers and moved to SUVs, etc.
Theres no way to address anything else I said because they are all facts..
10yr avg. s-class sales in the US is 18.4K; the estimate for 2015 is 22K. The S is selling above avg in the US and Europe. Exactly which SUV is selling well again? Worldwide LS460/LS600 is #5; S-class, BMW7, A8, Panamera and then LS. There is either a problem with the logic you applied or the data...and don't worry yourself about my garage good-buddy
Definition of FACT for Kids. 1. : something that really exists or has occurred
Lexus and the LS specifically were designed for the US market. When compared worldwide of course the LS is not a major player. That's not new, it never has been. I'm talking about US sales. As usual you keep spitting stuff out that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Refute my statement that overall large luxury car sales are down from their peak about 10 years ago. Otherwise you're just wasting bandwidth.
Lexus and the LS specifically were designed for the US market. When compared worldwide of course the LS is not a major player. That's not new, it never has been. I'm talking about US sales. As usual you keep spitting stuff out that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Refute my statement that overall large luxury car sales are down from their peak about 10 years ago. Otherwise you're just wasting bandwidth.
The demand is so high for quality full size cars that Mercedes, Audi and BMW created the CLS, A7 and BMW 6 series. Porsche didn't want to miss the Bonanza and popped out their four door. Then there is the true market: which includes the new models that are in the same category/ which would put MB 80% over their 10yr worldwide sales avg. of s&cls-class cars.
Further, Lexus is addressing their world presence as evidenced in their direction: This is an adaptation of MB's formula (although missing a TDI):
V-6-based hybrid
Standard v8
TT V-8 good for 600 horses.
Post#15 is what you believe and is false/S-Class sales were 30% above their avg in 2014 and 60% of those sales were in the US.
The A7, CLS, and that type of car is evidence of the weakening of the large luxury segment. Those cars are smaller and cheaper.
I think it's time superdenso joins my ignore list
The full size car market expanded in the last 10 years and demand exceeds supply: BMW 6 is 1inch shorter than LS, A7 is 1 inch wider, 2 inches shorter, the MB CLS is .5 wider and 3inches shorter, & Panamera is 1 inch wider.
This information is on their websites. The German companies made adjustments: flooded the market with full-size hardware and increased sales substantially.
*Vw actually added 2 full size sedans (Audi7 & Porsche Pana).
Just to be fair, if you use the base price of the LS, you have to use the base prices of the other models so it is an apples to apples comparison. Based on my January 2016 CR new car issue they are -
And if you've ever driven any of those cars, as I have, it's clear that their target is not the large luxury car market. They're much tighter, coupe like,harder riding and sportier. It's an entirely separate segment.
You also can't use the LS as a benchmark in the large luxury car segment as its older, and fairly cheap (I reference the surprise in the other thread at how little my LS cost). Look at the S550 and the 7 Series. They start out at ~$90k+.
That's where the segment is going and the next LS is going to be right there with them price wise I'm sure. Using the numbers you quoted above (I can no longer see superdenso's posts) BMW and MB are clearly placing these new 4 door coupe cars to where they top out around where the full sized cars begin.
He clearly has never sat in or driven any of those cars if he thinks they're designed to compete with cars like the S Class, 7 Series, A8, LS or XJ.
And if you've ever driven any of those cars, as I have, it's clear that their target is not the large luxury car market. They're much tighter, coupe like,harder riding and sportier. It's an entirely separate segment.
You also can't use the LS as a benchmark in the large luxury car segment as its older, and fairly cheap (I reference the surprise in the other thread at how little my LS cost). Look at the S550 and the 7 Series. They start out at ~$90k+.
That's where the segment is going and the next LS is going to be right there with them price wise I'm sure. Using the numbers you quoted above (I can no longer see superdenso's posts) BMW and MB are clearly placing these new 4 door coupe cars to where they top out around where the full sized cars begin.
He clearly has never sat in or driven any of those cars if he thinks they're designed to compete with cars like the S Class, 7 Series, A8, LS or XJ.
Last things first, start a thread about MB ownership, but spare me the details of ur 15min test drive experience: Stand Down
v8 prices were chosen in my chart. But, the TTv6's at a $6k discount meet/exceed the the LS v8 performance. Those cars are the reasons the current LS has less sales; there's no "phantom" SUV competition. All of the cars listed max out over $100k, BMW exceeds $120 and Porsche $200. Perhaps LS was designed to be 90% of an S, 7, or A8's luxury with 85% of the performance at a discounted price. The response was 4 new German sedans offering 90% of the luxury and 105% of the performance at 75% of the price.
*the MB (S/SL/CL/CLS) class is expensive, beautiful, but has considerably more downtime; I rarely recommend the Benz and often recommend the Lexus. The most important luxury for me is reliability. The 5th gen LS may be the "one".
A surprising and emotion-evoking design as part of Lexus' drive to exceed conventional imagination. The LF-FC is the latest expression of Lexus' progressive luxury and is a high-tech vision of a not so distant future:
12-15-15, 11:12 AM
Please feel free to share your sources. If you want to see a phenomenon, check the 1999 s-class "fair-well model" sales. As previously mentioned: the model had outstanding handling; all while being softly sprung & sold a lot of cars in its exit year.
