OE Air Suspension Life
09-23-15, 08:56 AM
#16
I've hear the Jaguar systems are also nightmares.
But really....why does a normal strut last over 100K miles on a Toyota but they can't get an air strut to last on a Lexus?
On my car, it's not the air bag that is failing, it is the hydraulic strut portion. Just poor quality/design.
And air bags themselves are famously rugged....just look under all the 18 wheelers and box trucks that uses air bags for many hundreds of thousand miles.
But really....why does a normal strut last over 100K miles on a Toyota but they can't get an air strut to last on a Lexus?
On my car, it's not the air bag that is failing, it is the hydraulic strut portion. Just poor quality/design.
And air bags themselves are famously rugged....just look under all the 18 wheelers and box trucks that uses air bags for many hundreds of thousand miles.
09-23-15, 08:59 AM
#17
Suncore clearly seems to be defunct, or at least something shady is going on to the point I'm not going to deal with them (that is, if they ever answered their phone).
What interests me is knowing just why an air car can't be fitted with 'standard' LS460 struts. Did Lexus modify the car's frame or suspension control arms such that they don't fit?
While I think I like the air suspension (I have never driven a non-air LS 460 to compare it to), I get pretty upset with any product I buy that is unreliable - especially on Lexus' top of the line car. The rear of my car needs its third set of struts after just 98,000 miles. If I drove the car, I could maybe see that. But I am the guy who avoids potholes and rough pavement like the plague and creeps over speed bumps. I don't hit curbs. I don't drive hard in any manner.
Even that wouldn't bother me if there were reasonably priced repair alternatives. But at $1K per corner (if you shop around enough) it's just an example of poor behavior.
I'm currently not convinced there are any 'conversion kits' available. If anyone is selling one (and can actually deliver it to my door) I don't know who.
What interests me is knowing just why an air car can't be fitted with 'standard' LS460 struts. Did Lexus modify the car's frame or suspension control arms such that they don't fit?
While I think I like the air suspension (I have never driven a non-air LS 460 to compare it to), I get pretty upset with any product I buy that is unreliable - especially on Lexus' top of the line car. The rear of my car needs its third set of struts after just 98,000 miles. If I drove the car, I could maybe see that. But I am the guy who avoids potholes and rough pavement like the plague and creeps over speed bumps. I don't hit curbs. I don't drive hard in any manner.
Even that wouldn't bother me if there were reasonably priced repair alternatives. But at $1K per corner (if you shop around enough) it's just an example of poor behavior.
I'm currently not convinced there are any 'conversion kits' available. If anyone is selling one (and can actually deliver it to my door) I don't know who.
09-23-15, 09:05 AM
#18
I've hear the Jaguar systems are also nightmares.
But really....why does a normal strut last over 100K miles on a Toyota but they can't get an air strut to last on a Lexus?
On my car, it's not the air bag that is failing, it is the hydraulic strut portion. Just poor quality/design.
And air bags themselves are famously rugged....just look under all the 18 wheelers and box trucks that uses air bags for many hundreds of thousand miles.
But really....why does a normal strut last over 100K miles on a Toyota but they can't get an air strut to last on a Lexus?
On my car, it's not the air bag that is failing, it is the hydraulic strut portion. Just poor quality/design.
And air bags themselves are famously rugged....just look under all the 18 wheelers and box trucks that uses air bags for many hundreds of thousand miles.
A twin tube strut last longer and progressively go bad (non air) because of design but it lacks some of the performance characteristics of a monotube.
09-23-15, 11:36 AM
#19
Instructor
To my knowledge you can easily convert a air suspension to a non air suspension. There is a company that sells you all four struts. This would be the way to go. You should also realize that air struts failing prematurely is an industry thing not limited to Lexus. I imagine that if Lexus didn't offer air struts because of long term reliability concerns they would be criticized by the automotive press for being behind the times because reliability of the make is not their concern anymore, it 's about the latest and greatest unreliable piece of technology for those that lease.
09-23-15, 12:41 PM
#20
http://www.suncoreindustries.com/lex...suspension.php
If you are adventurous you could save a tremendous amount of money by making inquiries at salvage yards for a low millage used struts. The risk here is you may not get all four because the car would have probably been hit hard enough to damage one or two. If you can source fronts and rears from different cars with around the same millage that is the way to go.
If you end up with one damaged strut the cartridge is only $120. Worth the risk in my opinion if you know what you are doing.
Last edited by Devh; 09-23-15 at 06:51 PM.
09-23-15, 12:54 PM
#21
One more thing I forgot to mention. You can sell your existing good Air suspension struts to finance a good amount of the conversion.
Last edited by Devh; 09-23-15 at 02:36 PM.
09-23-15, 05:54 PM
#22
Pole Position
So I bought an non air suspension car. My second LS car. Never had air before on any car. But I have replaced shocks and struts on cars before. Most manufactures say the life of standard shocks and struts are to be replaced at 50,000. Sure they can last longer, but not perform the same as new. So why do people expect the air suspension to last longer than conventional suspension. I don't think they fail due to poor design, I think they are just at the end of their life cycle. Let's here it guys. Am I wrong ??
Last edited by Unsober1; 09-23-15 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Mis spelling
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Ogun360 (05-17-21)
09-23-15, 06:33 PM
#23
So I bought an non air suspension car. My second LS car. Never had air before on any car. But I have replaced shocks and struts on cars before. Most manufactures say the life of standard shocks and struts are to be replaced at 50,000. Sure they can last longer, but not perform the same is new. So why are so why do people expect the air suspension to last long than conventional suspension. I don't think they fail due to poor design, I think they are just at the end of their life cycle. Let's here it guys. Am I wrong ??
The problem with air struts or mono tube design is that they can fail unpredictably and you will notice it.
09-23-15, 07:14 PM
#24
Pole Position
Ok so I get that the progressive decline gives owners a false sense that everything is fine and will last forever. But the design is built to only last only so many miles. Air suspension or not, it's the end of the designed life and replacement is expected. It is not a design flaw. We buy tires that are designed to last 60,000 miles. If you had those tires on your car for 100,000 miles, would you say they are bad design or poor quality ? They did what they were designed to do, everything after its design life cycle is just a bonus. Believe it or not guys, shock and struts, as well as air suspension parts are designed to wear out. It is part of the maintaince. If you can't afford sending $4000 on suspension every 100,000. It hurts to say this, Then maybe you shouldn't have bought such an expensive car. Now the guys that bought the car new and the parts are going out early, that what the factory warranty should cover. SHAME ON YOU LEXUS.
09-23-15, 10:55 PM
#25
Ok so I get that the progressive decline gives owners a false sense that everything is fine and will last forever. But the design is built to only last only so many miles. Air suspension or not, it's the end of the designed life and replacement is expected. It is not a design flaw. We buy tires that are designed to last 60,000 miles. If you had those tires on your car for 100,000 miles, would you say they are bad design or poor quality ? They did what they were designed to do, everything after its design life cycle is just a bonus. Believe it or not guys, shock and struts, as well as air suspension parts are designed to wear out. It is part of the maintaince. If you can't afford sending $4000 on suspension every 100,000. It hurts to say this, Then maybe you shouldn't have bought such an expensive car. Now the guys that bought the car new and the parts are going out early, that what the factory warranty should cover. SHAME ON YOU LEXUS.
09-24-15, 09:49 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
All good points. I'm currently at about 90k miles on my LS with NON air suspension. Have been debating on whether to replace my shocks/struts with KYB's from Ebay. Car rides great, but as some have stated, the decline in performance can be missed when it's gradual. At the risk of hijacking this thread, have any of you replaced yours?
09-24-15, 10:04 AM
#27
All good points. I'm currently at about 90k miles on my LS with NON air suspension. Have been debating on whether to replace my shocks/struts with KYB's from Ebay. Car rides great, but as some have stated, the decline in performance can be missed when it's gradual. At the risk of hijacking this thread, have any of you replaced yours?
09-24-15, 10:56 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
It is most probable that the KYB is the original manufacture of the struts. If removal of the strut does not involve removal of the control arms then it should be easy to remove and install the new cartridge if you have spring compressors. I don't like using spring compressors so I would just take them to a repair shop and have them do them for me on a strut machine. Then I would just reinstall them and take the car in for an alignment.
09-24-15, 12:06 PM
#29
Unfortunatel, disconnecting the control arm and removal of the stab links is required for the front. As for the rears, that requires removing A LOT of the interior (seats, console, rear shelf, etc) to access the tops of the strut towers. Regardless, I will be doing it DIY. 3.4 hrs for front and 4.6 hrs for rear!! According to AllDataDiy
Last edited by Devh; 09-24-15 at 04:08 PM.