Dealer master tech won't acknowledge that the air suspension can be adjusted
09-12-15, 02:51 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Dealer master tech won't acknowledge that the air suspension can be adjusted
See bottom for a quote from this thread as an introduction: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...gain-2.html#28
Long story short, scheduled a visit to the dealer after I spoke to the service advisor about the noise one rear shock was making and the suspension that was uneven by quite a large margin. The guy said there was a service bulletin from Lexus to address this (he stated both the noise and the uneven suspension) that required to replace both rear shocks and actuator with revised one, a 5000$ job. I agree and let them do the job. Got my car back and the suspension on the rear is WAY lower than the front, as stated before it's as if the car have been half slammed from the rear only. Car lift and lower properly with the height button so the pump is working. Got a measuring tape with the guy and start doing some measurement on my car. Then go the showroom to measure another ls with air: all all corner are perfectly even beside a offset of about 2 mm on one. Service rep say that his master tech told him that the suspension cannot be adjusted. I get a hold of the repair procedure to replace rear shock from the workshop manual for this car and one of the step require for the suspension height to be verified and adjusted. It clearly show all the step in order to do this which involve a using an intelligent tester or techstream and making mechanical adjustment to the HEIGHT CONTROL SENSOR LINK SUB-ASSEMBLY for the front and the HEIGHT CONTROL SENSOR LINK SUB-ASSEMBLY for the rear. Show the service rep the procedure in the manual, and then reply that he will call Lexus engineering department cause they cannot figure how to do this. Get back to me the day after and basically said that adjusting the suspension was possible only by "tricking" the system and that it could mess up other component. He also said that the uneven suspension was withing the manufacturer spec, which is totally false cause I saw the exact measurement in the workshop manual. So far communication is good and polite (even if they messed up my car pretty bad as quoted in the post below) but while they are making me pay for the link kit assembly they broke while removing the shocks using a torch, my suspension problem is not getting anywhere. Is there anyone anywhere that know how to properly repair those cars ? Cause apparently it's not at Lexus own dealerships. I'm thinking of just getting the car back and bringing it to an independent where I'll instruct the guy on how to do this adjustment and just send the dealer the bill. While I'm going above and beyond to work with them to find a solution, even sending them the damn procedure, my car is not being repaired properly as instructed in Lexus own repair manual. Is there anyone here that had to adjust their stock air suspension ? I would have taken a few picture but my car is still in the shop.
Long story short, scheduled a visit to the dealer after I spoke to the service advisor about the noise one rear shock was making and the suspension that was uneven by quite a large margin. The guy said there was a service bulletin from Lexus to address this (he stated both the noise and the uneven suspension) that required to replace both rear shocks and actuator with revised one, a 5000$ job. I agree and let them do the job. Got my car back and the suspension on the rear is WAY lower than the front, as stated before it's as if the car have been half slammed from the rear only. Car lift and lower properly with the height button so the pump is working. Got a measuring tape with the guy and start doing some measurement on my car. Then go the showroom to measure another ls with air: all all corner are perfectly even beside a offset of about 2 mm on one. Service rep say that his master tech told him that the suspension cannot be adjusted. I get a hold of the repair procedure to replace rear shock from the workshop manual for this car and one of the step require for the suspension height to be verified and adjusted. It clearly show all the step in order to do this which involve a using an intelligent tester or techstream and making mechanical adjustment to the HEIGHT CONTROL SENSOR LINK SUB-ASSEMBLY for the front and the HEIGHT CONTROL SENSOR LINK SUB-ASSEMBLY for the rear. Show the service rep the procedure in the manual, and then reply that he will call Lexus engineering department cause they cannot figure how to do this. Get back to me the day after and basically said that adjusting the suspension was possible only by "tricking" the system and that it could mess up other component. He also said that the uneven suspension was withing the manufacturer spec, which is totally false cause I saw the exact measurement in the workshop manual. So far communication is good and polite (even if they messed up my car pretty bad as quoted in the post below) but while they are making me pay for the link kit assembly they broke while removing the shocks using a torch, my suspension problem is not getting anywhere. Is there anyone anywhere that know how to properly repair those cars ? Cause apparently it's not at Lexus own dealerships. I'm thinking of just getting the car back and bringing it to an independent where I'll instruct the guy on how to do this adjustment and just send the dealer the bill. While I'm going above and beyond to work with them to find a solution, even sending them the damn procedure, my car is not being repaired properly as instructed in Lexus own repair manual. Is there anyone here that had to adjust their stock air suspension ? I would have taken a few picture but my car is still in the shop.
I am by no mean cheap and willing to pay the dealer premium, but I do expect a better service and repair than any average independent... but so far as other said I have failed to see from past experience this philosophy expanding from the desk to the shop. When I got to Lexus to service my car I expect that they know the car better than your average mechanic, are used to work on them, have tools specific for their models, follow headquarter procedure for a repair and are careful not to damage your car. As some may have know my past experience at the dealer have been pretty dreadful, at least here in Quebec. Just a few week ago I have been to the last dealer I haven't tried yet in my area for a 5k rear suspension job from my own pocket and when the car was returned to me the trim part from the rear pillar were hanging down and not attached correctly, pillars had grease and dirt all over them, rear console was still open with the two headsets just thrown on the seat, rear driver seat missed the seat belt assembly and the car haven't been wash. Just when they were ready to cash in a 5k bill... And it doesn't stop there. The guy actually told me that his technician had to remove the shocks using his torch and he damaged the link kit. Apparently he said that replacing them had to come from my own pocket. I looked at him and said no. So he agree to handle the labor and I'll pay only 200$ for 2 new link kit. I also told them before the repair that I wanted to keep the old shock parts as the left one was still good but since they used a torch to remove them the top steel ring have been cut and both the old shock are not usable anymore. I also noticed that the suspension haven't been adjusted evenly so my car look like it's on sport on the rear and comfort on the front... it really look silly as if my car have been slammed on the rear only. Service rep tell me that the suspension is adjusted automatically with the actuator and that there is no manual adjustments. The thing is, I have access to the workshop manual BY LEXUS used by their technicians and it clearly state that there is a step for shock replacement that require manual adjustment of the suspension. So I showed it to him the detailed step and he said yeah, it does look like the suspension can be adjusted. I swear I'm not making this up... There is also a step after toe-in involving manual adjustment of the object recognition camera and the headlight which probably haven't been done either. As I was getting to my car after they took my car in to install the missing seatbelt I could hear the regular tech said that the master tech did my car on overtime before leaving... I'm suppose to get my car back today for the replaced link kit and suspension adjustment. And this dealer is actually the best I've dealt with so far because the service rep actually listened and agreed to take my car back to check the suspension. That goes to show how far headquarter lost control over the situation over there. I can only imagine the number of old folks without car knowledge letting the dealer get away with this kind of things.
Last edited by Vansibel; 09-12-15 at 03:14 PM.
09-13-15, 12:00 PM
#2
You mention the suspension was uneven before the repair attempt. Was this front\rear uneven, or just one rear corner uneven? When you looked at the results the other day at the dealer was it the same or worse than what it was originally? My thinking here is that maybe there was some other cause of the unevenness that wasn't bad air strut or actuator related.
I can tell you Lexus dealers definitely know how to replace the air suspension on these cars. Anytime I have some major work done I ask the dealer questions like a) have you see this before and b) have you repaired this issue before. This just gives me some idea where they are at with this type of issue before they pull the car apart.
The whole dealer service manager - service writer - master tech setup is a complex one and any single part can ruin your experience. What if you master tech is awesome, but only gets half the alloted time to do your repair? What if the the service manager mandates that higher paying warranty work comes first and customer paid repairs come second? The fact that your tech supposedly had to work overtime to even get the repair done, appears to have missed or skipped steps in the repair process and also missed other things (rear seat belt) really says time crunch to me. Did they try and pass you the car back in that condition? If so, it really speaks volumes about the customer experience and says that someone there in some capacity doesn't care.
If you want to get to the bottom of this I'd do a post mortem with the service writer. What went wrong? What QA steps were there to check for things like the rear seat belt missing? Why did they try and push this through on overtime? When they spoke to Lexus about the manual adjustment, was this Lexus Canada or Lexus in California? Did they really skip the step about the manual height adjustment when they knew the car was in for repair for an air strut and height related concern? Have they seen any cases of height related concerns before and if so, how did they deal with them? If the writer can't discuss this it might be him that's the problem. That's when you talk to the service manager and run through the same questions. When you finally get answers to these that's when you move onto the next one: How do we now fix the problem you have with your car?
When you get the car back, take some pics and measurements of the gap between the top of the tires and the fender. We can then compare to our cars and see how things vary.
I can tell you Lexus dealers definitely know how to replace the air suspension on these cars. Anytime I have some major work done I ask the dealer questions like a) have you see this before and b) have you repaired this issue before. This just gives me some idea where they are at with this type of issue before they pull the car apart.
The whole dealer service manager - service writer - master tech setup is a complex one and any single part can ruin your experience. What if you master tech is awesome, but only gets half the alloted time to do your repair? What if the the service manager mandates that higher paying warranty work comes first and customer paid repairs come second? The fact that your tech supposedly had to work overtime to even get the repair done, appears to have missed or skipped steps in the repair process and also missed other things (rear seat belt) really says time crunch to me. Did they try and pass you the car back in that condition? If so, it really speaks volumes about the customer experience and says that someone there in some capacity doesn't care.
If you want to get to the bottom of this I'd do a post mortem with the service writer. What went wrong? What QA steps were there to check for things like the rear seat belt missing? Why did they try and push this through on overtime? When they spoke to Lexus about the manual adjustment, was this Lexus Canada or Lexus in California? Did they really skip the step about the manual height adjustment when they knew the car was in for repair for an air strut and height related concern? Have they seen any cases of height related concerns before and if so, how did they deal with them? If the writer can't discuss this it might be him that's the problem. That's when you talk to the service manager and run through the same questions. When you finally get answers to these that's when you move onto the next one: How do we now fix the problem you have with your car?
When you get the car back, take some pics and measurements of the gap between the top of the tires and the fender. We can then compare to our cars and see how things vary.
09-13-15, 02:49 PM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
At first there was only one corner of the suspension way lower than the other, all remaining 3 were about the same height. Interestingly enough the rear passenger shock was the problematic one for the noise and rough ride, and while the other appear way lower it seemed to be working alright (which still got replaced anyway). Nonetheless I followed the service guy recommendation and choose to replace everything he was suggesting because I asked him that I wanted both issue to be resolved before his evaluation of the work. So he said that the current work would address the suspension height issue and the noise/rough ride. When I got the car back, and yes they try to pass me the car in that condition with trim parts hanging down and missing seat belt, the rough ride from the rear was gone but now BOTH rear wheel are WAY lower than the front. So before only 1 wheel had uneven height, now there is 2. And to answer if they skipped the air suspension height adjustment, I think their answer regarding the suspension being not adjustable at all speak for itself. One of the first thing the service rep told me when I came in is that they barely had any ls at all have been servicing 1 or 2 ls600.
As for the other here, is there any ls600hl owner that can confirm if their suspension is also significantly lower on the rear (along with year model) ?
This would probably goes like this: Sir there is no problem with your car. The suspension cannot be adjusted on those car and yes we can confirm that your model came with uneven suspension height from the factory. The pursuit of perfection is mostly a marketing thing, but please do come again if you have another 5k to burn we'll happily try to serve you overtime after our warranty works.
As for the other here, is there any ls600hl owner that can confirm if their suspension is also significantly lower on the rear (along with year model) ?
This would probably goes like this: Sir there is no problem with your car. The suspension cannot be adjusted on those car and yes we can confirm that your model came with uneven suspension height from the factory. The pursuit of perfection is mostly a marketing thing, but please do come again if you have another 5k to burn we'll happily try to serve you overtime after our warranty works.
Last edited by Vansibel; 09-13-15 at 03:55 PM.
09-13-15, 03:45 PM
#4
I went outside and looked at my car, 08 600, front is little bit higher than the back (~1"). My other car, 10 460L, had the same problem of one side sinking, took it to the dealer they did a procedure to reset the suspension system by raising and lowering from the techstream, Did not have the problem since then.
09-13-15, 04:33 PM
#5
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I went outside and looked at my car, 08 600, front is little bit higher than the back (~1"). My other car, 10 460L, had the same problem of one side sinking, took it to the dealer they did a procedure to reset the suspension system by raising and lowering from the techstream, Did not have the problem since then.
Thank you that's much helpful. Do you have the name of that dealer ? I'll ask my current dealer to give them a call because obviously they need help over there.
09-13-15, 05:02 PM
#6
Also, my understanding is that each wheel has a height sensor that can be adjusted. In my case they did not change it because after the reset procedure things went back to spec.
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09-13-15, 05:58 PM
#8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I went outside and looked at my car, 08 600, front is little bit higher than the back (~1"). My other car, 10 460L, had the same problem of one side sinking, took it to the dealer they did a procedure to reset the suspension system by raising and lowering from the techstream, Did not have the problem since then.
It could make sense for the shock on the opposed direction of the lower side to be higher and possibly bouncing over bump because of that...
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