Spark plug change costs $14,600 to fix. car for sale
06-03-15, 08:18 PM
#91
If you look on the Mercedes forums you find ALOT of Mercedes owners having problems,but you will find even more Mercedes owners who vigorously defend their brand , and get confrontational to anyone who says its anything less then the best car in the world.
A lot of time and energy is spent on those forums debating whether or not Mercedes is the best, or if Mercedes is better then Brand X, rather then just dealing with the reality and trying to make it better.
Most of us come from older Lexus models and have enjoyed a lot of trouble free years, things like engine loss of power with no explanation,oil consumption with no explanation, premature wear and tear of this or that is something we are not used to.
So when we see these things on the 460 its only natural to speak out about them, I don't think anyone is attacking the 460 , or trying to make it sound like a lemon, we are all here because we own one or want to buy one.
Its safe to say Lexus had some hiccups with the 460, whether its only a few of them or whether the model itself has some inherent flaws doesn't really matter at this point, the point is these are new issues that we, as Lexus owners , have never had to deal with before, and any attempt to deny that is only time and energy wasted.
Despite the few issues, the 460 is still worlds above the german brands with regards to reliability.
A lot of time and energy is spent on those forums debating whether or not Mercedes is the best, or if Mercedes is better then Brand X, rather then just dealing with the reality and trying to make it better.
Most of us come from older Lexus models and have enjoyed a lot of trouble free years, things like engine loss of power with no explanation,oil consumption with no explanation, premature wear and tear of this or that is something we are not used to.
So when we see these things on the 460 its only natural to speak out about them, I don't think anyone is attacking the 460 , or trying to make it sound like a lemon, we are all here because we own one or want to buy one.
Its safe to say Lexus had some hiccups with the 460, whether its only a few of them or whether the model itself has some inherent flaws doesn't really matter at this point, the point is these are new issues that we, as Lexus owners , have never had to deal with before, and any attempt to deny that is only time and energy wasted.
Despite the few issues, the 460 is still worlds above the german brands with regards to reliability.
06-03-15, 10:21 PM
#92
Lexus Test Driver
Bwahahahahaha!!!! Ohhhhh man! Just when I thought it couldn't get funnier....
When the BMW Regional Rep at the Vancouver International Car Show tells you that the 7 series was "meant to be leased or purchased CPO after a lease", that should tell you something. When you spend 2.5 years on the #1 BMW Forum (Bimmerfest) and share the misery with hundreds of other 7 series owners bemoaning the car, that is not a "lemon". When Time Magazine lists it as one of the "50 Worst Cars in History", that is not a one-off. When there are scads of videos about limousine companies losing their businesses because of mechanical and computer issues and companies in Los Angeles patenting techniques and tools to make 7 series ownership less of a hardship....etc. Trust me, I could go on. But as I typed this, I wondered if you were just trolling. I hope not.
Just go to the 7 series forum of Bimmerfest and feast your eyes on the misery there.
When the BMW Regional Rep at the Vancouver International Car Show tells you that the 7 series was "meant to be leased or purchased CPO after a lease", that should tell you something. When you spend 2.5 years on the #1 BMW Forum (Bimmerfest) and share the misery with hundreds of other 7 series owners bemoaning the car, that is not a "lemon". When Time Magazine lists it as one of the "50 Worst Cars in History", that is not a one-off. When there are scads of videos about limousine companies losing their businesses because of mechanical and computer issues and companies in Los Angeles patenting techniques and tools to make 7 series ownership less of a hardship....etc. Trust me, I could go on. But as I typed this, I wondered if you were just trolling. I hope not.
Just go to the 7 series forum of Bimmerfest and feast your eyes on the misery there.
Let me tell you something: internet forums are where people go to complain about their problems. People do not flock to the forums to say that they hit 100,000 miles with no issues. It's the same thing with the early LS460 and the wind noise issue. People were complaining like crazy here, people trying to DIY fix it, others claiming that it was dead silent and everyone else was crazy, Lexus freaking out, and a poll showed that it really wasn't that many people complaining even based on the LS population here. And it was minuscule compared to the numbers sold.
Yes, the 7-series is not the most reliable car, but to have a single experience or use an internet forum as the main indicator of its reliability is silly. They're great to find out problems people have run into, but it's not something to use to gauge reliability. Why? Because it's a very small percentage of the actual population of owners and it's not evenly distributed, in that people without issues are not actively on their preaching the amazingness.
06-03-15, 11:03 PM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
But the value prop for a Lexus is stacked in favor of the used car. My 600 is 7 years old, less than 50K on it and has a warranty to 2020 and another 60K miles. I got it all papered, taxed, warrantied, etc. for less than 40K. There isn't a 40K new car out there with a new car warranty and new car young parts that matches either the current condition of the 600 or the likely experience for the next 5 years. Someone else ate 70% depreciation on it and I get to benefit. Except that the parts are chronologically old on it, there's nothing that distinguishes it from a new one to me or anyone who sees it (except the lack of the new one's ugly *** grill). The chronologically old parts will be replaced by new parts at no additional expense for me.
That's why I won't ever buy a new car again.
That's why I won't ever buy a new car again.
06-04-15, 04:17 AM
#94
I'd say your in a position to do some type of Frankenstein engine to the car. I don't know how old you are or if your into doing up cars but you could always drop in a 2JZ, an engine from the GX or LX which should have a lot more torque than the LS.
06-04-15, 04:25 AM
#95
If you look on the Mercedes forums you find ALOT of Mercedes owners having problems,but you will find even more Mercedes owners who vigorously defend their brand , and get confrontational to anyone who says its anything less then the best car in the world.
A lot of time and energy is spent on those forums debating whether or not Mercedes is the best, or if Mercedes is better then Brand X, rather then just dealing with the reality and trying to make it better.
Most of us come from older Lexus models and have enjoyed a lot of trouble free years, things like engine loss of power with no explanation,oil consumption with no explanation, premature wear and tear of this or that is something we are not used to.
So when we see these things on the 460 its only natural to speak out about them, I don't think anyone is attacking the 460 , or trying to make it sound like a lemon, we are all here because we own one or want to buy one.
Its safe to say Lexus had some hiccups with the 460, whether its only a few of them or whether the model itself has some inherent flaws doesn't really matter at this point, the point is these are new issues that we, as Lexus owners , have never had to deal with before, and any attempt to deny that is only time and energy wasted.
Despite the few issues, the 460 is still worlds above the german brands with regards to reliability.
A lot of time and energy is spent on those forums debating whether or not Mercedes is the best, or if Mercedes is better then Brand X, rather then just dealing with the reality and trying to make it better.
Most of us come from older Lexus models and have enjoyed a lot of trouble free years, things like engine loss of power with no explanation,oil consumption with no explanation, premature wear and tear of this or that is something we are not used to.
So when we see these things on the 460 its only natural to speak out about them, I don't think anyone is attacking the 460 , or trying to make it sound like a lemon, we are all here because we own one or want to buy one.
Its safe to say Lexus had some hiccups with the 460, whether its only a few of them or whether the model itself has some inherent flaws doesn't really matter at this point, the point is these are new issues that we, as Lexus owners , have never had to deal with before, and any attempt to deny that is only time and energy wasted.
Despite the few issues, the 460 is still worlds above the german brands with regards to reliability.
Remember late 90's commercial - "who said one can't achieve 100% perfection in mechanical engineering - Lexus" and all time famous "relentless pursuit of perfection". Lexus set the target and I expect them to keep that up, particular on LS line.
Lexus did make some major internal organization changes during late 2000s (before unintended acceleration saga) and then after that acceleration incident they made QC measures across their suppliers including having one senior Japanese member onsite. I hope these measures will get reflected in 2016 and later models........time will tell.
Last edited by satiger; 06-04-15 at 04:28 AM.
06-04-15, 05:09 AM
#97
Lexus Test Driver
If you view the title of this thread, you'd be able to observe that it didn't start out as a debate, but someone stating what happened with their "LS460". Now, if the thread can be chopped up and moved, that's another scenario.
06-04-15, 05:55 AM
#99
Now, if we want to talk about how the discussion shifted from the OP's difficult situation and history of problems with his LS460 into "part deux" of the broader quality discussion we (myself included) were having in a different thread not too long ago, that's a different story.
However, the line between discussion and debate in the context of this forum can be blurry, and for whatever it's worth, I don't see anything here beyond what I've been seeing every day for the last 11 years in this awesome forum. Now, the mods could feel free to tell me to shut up and go home, but these are my thoughts.
06-04-15, 06:43 AM
#100
06-04-15, 06:49 AM
#101
Lexus Fanatic
I would agree that Lexus quality did slip during that time period, both outward quality (as in material and build quality) and slightly in terms of reliability. Still though, they didn't loose their ranking.
You also don't have to read or participate in threads that you no longer have interest in. 
06-04-15, 09:10 AM
#102
However, I would not move the thread to the debate forum. This is strictly a discussion/debate about the LS 460, so it belongs here.
06-04-15, 12:05 PM
#104
Lexus Test Driver
I only meant to say what caha and SW15LS communicated more effectively, and Nospinezone placed the cherry on top, as this is thread is directly related to the LS460.
No bad blood here, my apologies.