Control arms and bushings...
12-19-14, 12:27 PM
#1
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Control arms and bushings...
I have a LS460L (air suspension) and ask that if you know, answer a couple of questions for me please.
>On this car, can the front (upper) bushing be changed out without changing the entire control arms?
>What might be the cost to do (if possible) bushings only and is it something that other than a Lexus dealer could reasonably do?
>I'm told that changing out the entire upper control arms would cost about $700 per arm (x4) and that time is rated at about 8 hours (not sure if that is per side or total.) Quoted price is $4,800 but the service center doesn't want to do it (with the air suspension being the factor.)
>Will those that have had all the upper control arms replaced and share an approx. cost?
The new Consumer Report has all good marks on LS models --except '09 and '10 460's. On both, suspension has a big black dot!
>On this car, can the front (upper) bushing be changed out without changing the entire control arms?
>What might be the cost to do (if possible) bushings only and is it something that other than a Lexus dealer could reasonably do?
>I'm told that changing out the entire upper control arms would cost about $700 per arm (x4) and that time is rated at about 8 hours (not sure if that is per side or total.) Quoted price is $4,800 but the service center doesn't want to do it (with the air suspension being the factor.)
>Will those that have had all the upper control arms replaced and share an approx. cost?
The new Consumer Report has all good marks on LS models --except '09 and '10 460's. On both, suspension has a big black dot!
12-19-14, 02:35 PM
#3
My control arms/bushings need replacing on my 09 LS SWB. 79k miles. $4800 job at Lexus but covered under my Lexus Platinum warranty. Whew. It's paid for itself about 5x in the last 3 years. Highly recommend these warranties on the LS. Good luck!
12-20-14, 06:59 AM
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Control arms and bushings
I've read all three "pages" on the link mentioned and really didn't find the answer to my question if bushings alone can be changed and what type of shop could do that work.
And here's what will probably be considered a "crazy question by some on here, but makes some sense to me.
>I'm told my front, upper bushing are not "all apart", but there are a few cracks. My wonder is--could those bushing be cleaned and coated (by finger) with a G.E. Silicon (and pushed into the cracks) to possibly extend life.
And here's what will probably be considered a "crazy question by some on here, but makes some sense to me.
>I'm told my front, upper bushing are not "all apart", but there are a few cracks. My wonder is--could those bushing be cleaned and coated (by finger) with a G.E. Silicon (and pushed into the cracks) to possibly extend life.
12-20-14, 10:59 AM
#5
I've read all three "pages" on the link mentioned and really didn't find the answer to my question if bushings alone can be changed and what type of shop could do that work.
And here's what will probably be considered a "crazy question by some on here, but makes some sense to me.
>I'm told my front, upper bushing are not "all apart", but there are a few cracks. My wonder is--could those bushing be cleaned and coated (by finger) with a G.E. Silicon (and pushed into the cracks) to possibly extend life.
And here's what will probably be considered a "crazy question by some on here, but makes some sense to me.
>I'm told my front, upper bushing are not "all apart", but there are a few cracks. My wonder is--could those bushing be cleaned and coated (by finger) with a G.E. Silicon (and pushed into the cracks) to possibly extend life.
This is what I would do. I would purchase new control arms on EBay that already has the bushings pressed in. I would then install them myself because I have skills and the experience. I would also do it if I didn't because I have the motivation to learn and save money.
If I didn't want to do the install then what I would do is purchase the arms from EBay and take the parts to an independent and have them replaced. Your savings would far exceed the dealership and the rational of having to pay for warranty in the first place.
If you have access to a mechanic that has a press and they are willing to do the work then I would just buy the bushings for further savings.
12-20-14, 01:14 PM
#6
Well said Devh
There is a lot of hearsay on any forum. Some of it maybe true or all of it not true. If you want to save money you need to do some selective deductions.
This is what I would do. I would purchase new control arms on EBay that already has the bushings pressed in. I would then install them myself because I have skills and the experience. I would also do it if I didn't because I have the motivation to learn and save money.
If I didn't want to do the install then what I would do is purchase the arms from EBay and take the parts to an independent and have them replaced. Your savings would far exceed the dealership and the rational of having to pay for warranty in the first place.
If you have access to a mechanic that has a press and they are willing to do the work then I would just buy the bushings for further savings.
This is what I would do. I would purchase new control arms on EBay that already has the bushings pressed in. I would then install them myself because I have skills and the experience. I would also do it if I didn't because I have the motivation to learn and save money.
If I didn't want to do the install then what I would do is purchase the arms from EBay and take the parts to an independent and have them replaced. Your savings would far exceed the dealership and the rational of having to pay for warranty in the first place.
If you have access to a mechanic that has a press and they are willing to do the work then I would just buy the bushings for further savings.
12-21-14, 02:37 PM
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Control arm and bushings
Thanks Devh, You must be a whiz. I wish you lived in my area --I'd be a cash customer. You make that job sound easy. Lexus service time book clocks it at 8 hrs. PER SIDE for cars with air suspension.
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12-21-14, 03:27 PM
#8
In regard to shop hours it's very misleading. Most repair shots use that as a billing estimates for the work but in reality there are a lot of short cuts they take which can make it shorter or longer as in the case of wheel bearings which is why I would let them handle it because it's not worth it to me.
I will also not work with those cheap sears spring compressors. My life is more important to me so I will take my struts to a shop to have something like that done.
There is a balance of what you can and cannot do but on the whole it's worth doing your own repairs as much as you can.
12-22-14, 12:23 PM
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Front suspension bushings
Four weeks ago, I started buying the bushings and components for a total make over of the front suspension on my 07 LS 460 RWD without air suspension, mileage 120,000 miles.
Since I was going to do the job myself, I decided to try the components on Ebay. I bought the 4 upper control arms for $160. and since I couldn't find the lower arms, I bought the bushings for the lower control arms for about $200. All of these parts are from Taiwan. I see that the lower control arm is available now. I bought the 2 stabilizer bar links from the US @ $35 for the pair. In order to uninstall and install the bushings you need a hydraulic press, so I bought 1 for $120. The hydraulic pressing was a tough job. You need the right size steel to push the old bushing out and to install the new bushing. I was able to use sockets for that job. Other than the bushing work, the rest of the job is actually easy, however, you do need a rather unique ball joint/tie rod separator tool. For the shock, you don't need a spring compressor, you just unbolt the top and bottom and that comes out in one piece. Change bushings and install the new parts. When you install anything that works up and down with wheel travel, move the control arm up and down and estimate the middle of it's travel and do up the bolts with the control arm in that position. Your bushings will last longer by doing that. The stabilizer bar links were a bit of an issue, you need to hold the threaded part still while you do up the nuts. That can be done with allen keys, but let me tell you its better if you have the allen keys that you use with your socket wrench.
This was the first car I've done this to that didn't need a wheel alignment when the work was done. There is NO adjustment on any of those components you've just changed. The car runs straight, is quieter and a slight bit stiffer and I will be going on a 5000 mile trip shortly and I'll report how well the parts have worked. I would estimate that the job should take you about 5-6 hours and cost you less than $500. Taking the parts to a machine shop rather than buying your own hydraulic press would probably be a wash. I hope that helps someone.
Since I was going to do the job myself, I decided to try the components on Ebay. I bought the 4 upper control arms for $160. and since I couldn't find the lower arms, I bought the bushings for the lower control arms for about $200. All of these parts are from Taiwan. I see that the lower control arm is available now. I bought the 2 stabilizer bar links from the US @ $35 for the pair. In order to uninstall and install the bushings you need a hydraulic press, so I bought 1 for $120. The hydraulic pressing was a tough job. You need the right size steel to push the old bushing out and to install the new bushing. I was able to use sockets for that job. Other than the bushing work, the rest of the job is actually easy, however, you do need a rather unique ball joint/tie rod separator tool. For the shock, you don't need a spring compressor, you just unbolt the top and bottom and that comes out in one piece. Change bushings and install the new parts. When you install anything that works up and down with wheel travel, move the control arm up and down and estimate the middle of it's travel and do up the bolts with the control arm in that position. Your bushings will last longer by doing that. The stabilizer bar links were a bit of an issue, you need to hold the threaded part still while you do up the nuts. That can be done with allen keys, but let me tell you its better if you have the allen keys that you use with your socket wrench.
This was the first car I've done this to that didn't need a wheel alignment when the work was done. There is NO adjustment on any of those components you've just changed. The car runs straight, is quieter and a slight bit stiffer and I will be going on a 5000 mile trip shortly and I'll report how well the parts have worked. I would estimate that the job should take you about 5-6 hours and cost you less than $500. Taking the parts to a machine shop rather than buying your own hydraulic press would probably be a wash. I hope that helps someone.
12-22-14, 04:03 PM
#10
Pole Position
I'm no whiz but thanks for the complement. My motivation is self interest and trying to save money. Actually I like the self reliant aspect of it all not having to depend on anyone with the exception of wheel bearings which I will refused to do because it's hell. Working on cars is not rocket science, well some of it is when we get into engine management but the mechanical parts come off and are put back on again.
In regard to shop hours it's very misleading. Most repair shots use that as a billing estimates for the work but in reality there are a lot of short cuts they take which can make it shorter or longer as in the case of wheel bearings which is why I would let them handle it because it's not worth it to me.
I will also not work with those cheap sears spring compressors. My life is more important to me so I will take my struts to a shop to have something like that done.
There is a balance of what you can and cannot do but on the whole it's worth doing your own repairs as much as you can.
In regard to shop hours it's very misleading. Most repair shots use that as a billing estimates for the work but in reality there are a lot of short cuts they take which can make it shorter or longer as in the case of wheel bearings which is why I would let them handle it because it's not worth it to me.
I will also not work with those cheap sears spring compressors. My life is more important to me so I will take my struts to a shop to have something like that done.
There is a balance of what you can and cannot do but on the whole it's worth doing your own repairs as much as you can.
12-22-14, 04:09 PM
#11
Pole Position
Four weeks ago, I started buying the bushings and components for a total make over of the front suspension on my 07 LS 460 RWD without air suspension, mileage 120,000 miles.
Since I was going to do the job myself, I decided to try the components on Ebay. I bought the 4 upper control arms for $160. and since I couldn't find the lower arms, I bought the bushings for the lower control arms for about $200. All of these parts are from Taiwan. I see that the lower control arm is available now. I bought the 2 stabilizer bar links from the US @ $35 for the pair. In order to uninstall and install the bushings you need a hydraulic press, so I bought 1 for $120. The hydraulic pressing was a tough job. You need the right size steel to push the old bushing out and to install the new bushing. I was able to use sockets for that job. Other than the bushing work, the rest of the job is actually easy, however, you do need a rather unique ball joint/tie rod separator tool. For the shock, you don't need a spring compressor, you just unbolt the top and bottom and that comes out in one piece. Change bushings and install the new parts. When you install anything that works up and down with wheel travel, move the control arm up and down and estimate the middle of it's travel and do up the bolts with the control arm in that position. Your bushings will last longer by doing that. The stabilizer bar links were a bit of an issue, you need to hold the threaded part still while you do up the nuts. That can be done with allen keys, but let me tell you its better if you have the allen keys that you use with your socket wrench.
This was the first car I've done this to that didn't need a wheel alignment when the work was done. There is NO adjustment on any of those components you've just changed. The car runs straight, is quieter and a slight bit stiffer and I will be going on a 5000 mile trip shortly and I'll report how well the parts have worked. I would estimate that the job should take you about 5-6 hours and cost you less than $500. Taking the parts to a machine shop rather than buying your own hydraulic press would probably be a wash. I hope that helps someone.
Since I was going to do the job myself, I decided to try the components on Ebay. I bought the 4 upper control arms for $160. and since I couldn't find the lower arms, I bought the bushings for the lower control arms for about $200. All of these parts are from Taiwan. I see that the lower control arm is available now. I bought the 2 stabilizer bar links from the US @ $35 for the pair. In order to uninstall and install the bushings you need a hydraulic press, so I bought 1 for $120. The hydraulic pressing was a tough job. You need the right size steel to push the old bushing out and to install the new bushing. I was able to use sockets for that job. Other than the bushing work, the rest of the job is actually easy, however, you do need a rather unique ball joint/tie rod separator tool. For the shock, you don't need a spring compressor, you just unbolt the top and bottom and that comes out in one piece. Change bushings and install the new parts. When you install anything that works up and down with wheel travel, move the control arm up and down and estimate the middle of it's travel and do up the bolts with the control arm in that position. Your bushings will last longer by doing that. The stabilizer bar links were a bit of an issue, you need to hold the threaded part still while you do up the nuts. That can be done with allen keys, but let me tell you its better if you have the allen keys that you use with your socket wrench.
This was the first car I've done this to that didn't need a wheel alignment when the work was done. There is NO adjustment on any of those components you've just changed. The car runs straight, is quieter and a slight bit stiffer and I will be going on a 5000 mile trip shortly and I'll report how well the parts have worked. I would estimate that the job should take you about 5-6 hours and cost you less than $500. Taking the parts to a machine shop rather than buying your own hydraulic press would probably be a wash. I hope that helps someone.
One question...why couldn't you just hit the steering knuckle with a brass hammer to get the ball joints off the knuckle? Are they in there that tight? A quick, accurate hit, I would think would distort the knuckle just quick enough to push them out, no?
12-22-14, 05:16 PM
#12
It would probably take you 30 minutes to do the wheel bearings on this car...aren't they just hub and wheel bearing sealed units? I don't think they are the traditional Honda and Toyota type that has to be pressed in and out of the steering knuckle. Now those are a pain, but the sealed units are a breeze.
In regard to the control arms, It would be a great day here when we get someone to document it with a video to everyone's benefit.
Thanks to don460 it's small potatos now that they have all the arms.
12-22-14, 06:03 PM
#13
Four weeks ago, I started buying the bushings and components for a total make over of the front suspension on my 07 LS 460 RWD without air suspension, mileage 120,000 miles.
Since I was going to do the job myself, I decided to try the components on Ebay. I bought the 4 upper control arms for $160. and since I couldn't find the lower arms, I bought the bushings for the lower control arms for about $200. All of these parts are from Taiwan. I see that the lower control arm is available now. I bought the 2 stabilizer bar links from the US @ $35 for the pair. In order to uninstall and install the bushings you need a hydraulic press, so I bought 1 for $120. The hydraulic pressing was a tough job. You need the right size steel to push the old bushing out and to install the new bushing. I was able to use sockets for that job. Other than the bushing work, the rest of the job is actually easy, however, you do need a rather unique ball joint/tie rod separator tool. For the shock, you don't need a spring compressor, you just unbolt the top and bottom and that comes out in one piece. Change bushings and install the new parts. When you install anything that works up and down with wheel travel, move the control arm up and down and estimate the middle of it's travel and do up the bolts with the control arm in that position. Your bushings will last longer by doing that. The stabilizer bar links were a bit of an issue, you need to hold the threaded part still while you do up the nuts. That can be done with allen keys, but let me tell you its better if you have the allen keys that you use with your socket wrench.
This was the first car I've done this to that didn't need a wheel alignment when the work was done. There is NO adjustment on any of those components you've just changed. The car runs straight, is quieter and a slight bit stiffer and I will be going on a 5000 mile trip shortly and I'll report how well the parts have worked. I would estimate that the job should take you about 5-6 hours and cost you less than $500. Taking the parts to a machine shop rather than buying your own hydraulic press would probably be a wash. I hope that helps someone.
Since I was going to do the job myself, I decided to try the components on Ebay. I bought the 4 upper control arms for $160. and since I couldn't find the lower arms, I bought the bushings for the lower control arms for about $200. All of these parts are from Taiwan. I see that the lower control arm is available now. I bought the 2 stabilizer bar links from the US @ $35 for the pair. In order to uninstall and install the bushings you need a hydraulic press, so I bought 1 for $120. The hydraulic pressing was a tough job. You need the right size steel to push the old bushing out and to install the new bushing. I was able to use sockets for that job. Other than the bushing work, the rest of the job is actually easy, however, you do need a rather unique ball joint/tie rod separator tool. For the shock, you don't need a spring compressor, you just unbolt the top and bottom and that comes out in one piece. Change bushings and install the new parts. When you install anything that works up and down with wheel travel, move the control arm up and down and estimate the middle of it's travel and do up the bolts with the control arm in that position. Your bushings will last longer by doing that. The stabilizer bar links were a bit of an issue, you need to hold the threaded part still while you do up the nuts. That can be done with allen keys, but let me tell you its better if you have the allen keys that you use with your socket wrench.
This was the first car I've done this to that didn't need a wheel alignment when the work was done. There is NO adjustment on any of those components you've just changed. The car runs straight, is quieter and a slight bit stiffer and I will be going on a 5000 mile trip shortly and I'll report how well the parts have worked. I would estimate that the job should take you about 5-6 hours and cost you less than $500. Taking the parts to a machine shop rather than buying your own hydraulic press would probably be a wash. I hope that helps someone.
12-22-14, 08:52 PM
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Great stuff! Let us know how the ebay control arms are. I see them on there all the time and I have always wondered if they are worth buying.
One question...why couldn't you just hit the steering knuckle with a brass hammer to get the ball joints off the knuckle? Are they in there that tight? A quick, accurate hit, I would think would distort the knuckle just quick enough to push them out, no?
One question...why couldn't you just hit the steering knuckle with a brass hammer to get the ball joints off the knuckle? Are they in there that tight? A quick, accurate hit, I would think would distort the knuckle just quick enough to push them out, no?
12-22-14, 08:56 PM
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