Just changed my oil & filter...bets on whether it hesitates??
01-15-15, 03:13 PM
#91
Lexus Test Driver
Gotcha thanks for pointing that out, will call my Toyota dealer (and likely Lexus dealer just for laughs) to grab one
01-15-15, 04:46 PM
#92
I'd like to chime into this discussion with my recent experience with an oil change and the dreaded hesitation. My feedback is not to challenge or refute any of the numbers of potential resolutions mentioned, or theories on why it happens. Merely sharing my experience for the benefit of others.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
Last edited by fly_s2k; 01-15-15 at 04:51 PM.
01-15-15, 06:59 PM
#93
Lexus Test Driver
I'd like to chime into this discussion with my recent experience with an oil change and the dreaded hesitation. My feedback is not to challenge or refute any of the numbers of potential resolutions mentioned, or theories on why it happens. Merely sharing my experience for the benefit of others.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
how much did it cost to do the update? Wonder if all/most Toyota & Lexus dealerships can do this (for those who are experiencing this issue)
01-15-15, 07:19 PM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I'd like to chime into this discussion with my recent experience with an oil change and the dreaded hesitation. My feedback is not to challenge or refute any of the numbers of potential resolutions mentioned, or theories on why it happens. Merely sharing my experience for the benefit of others.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
FWIW, several members tried the ECU reflash which only cured the hesitation temporarily, and then returned, (in some cases almost immediately). Who the hell knows what that means, but it sure makes for interesting theories!
When I get the recent recall done, I will be having them reflash my ECU just for shats and gaggles.
Also, today while driving into work, I went to accelerate onto the freeway and was amazed at how responsive my car was.... the acceleration was exhilerating and caught me by surprise. One might argue the pacebo effect here, except that I wasn't even thinking about it and was immediately struck at how it accelerated. So VERY pleased......and fingers crossed.
Last edited by roadfrog; 01-15-15 at 09:14 PM.
01-15-15, 07:29 PM
#95
No sacred cows here my friend....all info is much appreciated!
FWIW, several members tried the ECU reflash which only cured the hesitation temporarily, and then returned 9in some cases almost immediately). Who the hell knows what that means, but it sure makes for interesting theories!
When I get the recent recall done, I will be having them reflash my ECU just for shats and gaggles.
Also, today while driving into work, I went to accelerate onto the freeway and was amazed at how responsive my car was.... the acceleration was exhilerating and caught me by surprise. One might argue the pacebo effect here, except that I wasn't even thinking about it and was immediately struck at how it accelerated. So VERY pleased......and fingers crossed.
FWIW, several members tried the ECU reflash which only cured the hesitation temporarily, and then returned 9in some cases almost immediately). Who the hell knows what that means, but it sure makes for interesting theories!
When I get the recent recall done, I will be having them reflash my ECU just for shats and gaggles.
Also, today while driving into work, I went to accelerate onto the freeway and was amazed at how responsive my car was.... the acceleration was exhilerating and caught me by surprise. One might argue the pacebo effect here, except that I wasn't even thinking about it and was immediately struck at how it accelerated. So VERY pleased......and fingers crossed.
01-15-15, 08:27 PM
#96
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
No changes in temps or weather here over the last week or two. It just completely caught me off guard....in a good way.
01-15-15, 08:54 PM
#97
No sacred cows here my friend....all info is much appreciated!
FWIW, several members tried the ECU reflash which only cured the hesitation temporarily, and then returned 9in some cases almost immediately). Who the hell knows what that means, but it sure makes for interesting theories!
When I get the recent recall done, I will be having them reflash my ECU just for shats and gaggles.
Also, today while driving into work, I went to accelerate onto the freeway and was amazed at how responsive my car was.... the acceleration was exhilerating and caught me by surprise. One might argue the pacebo effect here, except that I wasn't even thinking about it and was immediately struck at how it accelerated. So VERY pleased......and fingers crossed.
FWIW, several members tried the ECU reflash which only cured the hesitation temporarily, and then returned 9in some cases almost immediately). Who the hell knows what that means, but it sure makes for interesting theories!
When I get the recent recall done, I will be having them reflash my ECU just for shats and gaggles.
Also, today while driving into work, I went to accelerate onto the freeway and was amazed at how responsive my car was.... the acceleration was exhilerating and caught me by surprise. One might argue the pacebo effect here, except that I wasn't even thinking about it and was immediately struck at how it accelerated. So VERY pleased......and fingers crossed.
Last edited by fly_s2k; 01-15-15 at 09:01 PM.
08-08-21, 06:18 AM
#98
My read of it is that Lexus is saying "0w20 has improved so much that we can increase its interval from 5k miles to 10k miles. HOWEVER if you are the owner of one of those engines where you might not be using 0w20 (because we specified other options such as 5w20), well we're not taking a chance and so your interval stays at 5k ... whether you say you have been using 0w20 or not."
Now that's what I think they are saying in the Bulletin. Why they actually did it is almost certainly an entirely different matter.
As far as the transition to 10k intervals, now really, the engine is entirely unchanged, but suddenly out-of-thin-air it can tolerate cutting oil changes in half? Maybe 0w20 got better ... or maybe Lexus is under pressure from competitors to lengthen intervals and/or cut ownership cost estimates.
enjo & is150 ... the push to the 20 upper viscosity constraint is yet another Lexus Murica!-only rule ... being tied to the US CAFE laws about auto manufacturers hitting fleet-wide MPG targets.
I just spent an hour looking at Lexus LS460 Owner's Manuals from around the world. Only in the USA & Canada are the choices officially limited to 0w20 & 5w20. In Britain, Ireland & Australia, the owner is directed to choose the viscosity (appropriate to the operating environment) from among 0w20, 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 15w40 & even 20w50. Even in ever-frigid Finland, Sweden & Norway, owners have access to all these viscosity options … and they were in fact all available in every Manual for the European Market that I opened.
As example, I've attached a copy of the relevant pages from the Irish-version of the 2011 Lexus LS460 Owner's Manual.
Very frustrating. Because of USA CAFE regulations that eternally increase MPG expectations, auto manufacturers are being forced to employ less viscous oil in order to gain greater fuel efficiency … at the expense of less actual engine protection. See https://bit.ly/3CtfrrM . The second graph at that website shows that a 30 upper viscosity oil (with a HTHS somewhat above 3.0) is maximizing engine protection … and at almost twice the rate of protection provided by an 20 upper viscosity oil (with an HTHS of about 2.5-2.7). And check out a few SAE Viscosity Temperature Charts; more than a few suggest that the protection of 20 upper viscosity oil begins to diminish after/around 75°F ambient, while the protection of 30 upper viscosity oil begins to diminish only after/around 95°F ambient. And Internet-searching on "5w20 5w30" brings up on-point many discussions, YouTube videos, etc. on this topic.
Perhaps if we had all been using 5w30 all along, those lower tension rings (also an artifact of CAFE standards) wouldn't be wearing out causing increasing oil consumption after 150k and such.
Last edited by DrQuality; 08-08-21 at 06:45 AM.
05-19-23, 08:10 AM
#99
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I'd like to chime into this discussion with my recent experience with an oil change and the dreaded hesitation. My feedback is not to challenge or refute any of the numbers of potential resolutions mentioned, or theories on why it happens. Merely sharing my experience for the benefit of others.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
Year: 2008
Model: LS460 SWB RWD
Mileage: 55,565
Oil used: Toyota 0W-20 Full syn
Oil Filter: OEM Toyota
Previous oil: Conventional dino
Previous to this oil change, car DID NOT experience any hesitation on acceleration. Within 120 miles of the oil change, I began to notice the dreaded hesitation.
Armed with the knowledge posted here by many accounts, I decided to take a quantifiable approach since I have always leaned towards the school of thought that it was a timing issue causing the hesitation.
I grabbed my ELM bluetooth OBD2 module and plugged it into the car. Using the Torque pro app, I decided to log Ignition Timing Adv during my drives. As suspected, every time I felt the hesitation, I noticed the Timing advance was retarded anywhere between 2-8 degrees depending on RPM, Throttle Percentage, and load. I continued to drive the car this way for an additional 250 miles in hopes that the problem would cure itself. It did not.
Since my car has never had the ECM calibrated with the latest calibration, I decided to test if that would cure my problem (in hopes that perhaps Toyota may have back down the sensitivity of the knock sensors, or decreased the rate at which timing is reatrded). I took it to my Toyota tech friend and had him update the ECM calibration to the lastest one (35055200). My ECM was on the 35055000 calibration prior to the update.
Instantly the hesitation was gone. Car was still experiencing severe hesitation on the way to the dealership, prior to the reflash. I have driven 2K miles (more or less the same manner I have been driving) since the re-flash and have not experienced the hesitation since.
I will continue to follow up and post my experience when I do the next oil change. I will continue to use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and OEM filters. Again, I reiterate that this is not to disprove what others have said, just another data point for consideration.
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