SW17LS

I mean...I also replaced ball joints and control arms on my LS400 come to think of it.

If I had a 9 year old LS that needed control arms even if it only had 60k miles, I honestly would not consider that unusual or excessive at all. I didn't on my ES, didn't on my LS400 either.

If you want to quote Lexus prices fine, but you're just a glutton for punishment as the job can be done for a fraction of the cost elsewhere. When you have an older car you have to be pragmatic.

Another huge issue on the Ls400s was the starter. If the starter went bad it was a huge job because of where the starter was, happened to mine and we just lived with an intermittent start because even at an independent that's a $1,500+ job. They relocated the starter on the LS430, but using your logic, what about all those poor LS400 owners? Or the gen 1 LS400 the PS pump would leak onto the alternator fouling it. They fixed that on the gen 2 LS400, but what about those poor gen 1 guys? People literally fashion a shield out of a milk jug. Not kidding.

My LS400 was about 6 years old when it developed that very expensive starter issue. We traded it with that problem. One of the big reasons we traded it also was it was close to needing its second $1,000 timing belt job.

Point is, there's always something, even back in the storied "early days".

UDel

I did not take my Lexus to the dealership after prices got so high. I took it to the Toyota dealership or did my own work but in some cases prices were not that much cheaper at Toyota, I doubt suspension work for a LS460 would be thousands less at a Toyota dealership. I don't know any good local mechanics/shops and those places don't warranty work anyway aside from maybe a few months. I am sure you knew the guy pretty well who did over $4000 worth of work for $1600 but that is besides the point, if your ES had just around 100K miles or less it should not need $4000 or $1600 dollars worth of suspension work if it was designed properly, I would be outraged if my Lexus needed that kind of suspension work/cost. My families and my cars have never needed suspension work or had suspension issues and many had 160K miles or more on them. I had to replace a transmission and engine in my Mitsu Eclipse with over 100K miles and the cost of doing both were less then half the price Lexus is charging most for fixing the suspensions they did not properly design.

They may have redesigned them on the 2011 but that is 5 model years before redesigning them so they knew they were bad all that time and did nothing, now owners are having to fork over thousands to fix their mistake. That is not fixing anything or making anything right for owners and these LS460 suspension issue seem to be failing more often and cost much more to fix then the GS ball joint issue. I have also read where 2011 owners have had suspension issues too.

Nothing lasts forever, you are right, but with modern cars especially from Lexus you should at least expect trouble free to mostly trouble free ownership for at least the first 100K miles if you don't abuse it and take care of it, expensive components failing before that costing several thousands of dollars to fix on any model is simply unacceptable especially when it is a known issue and they did nothing about it for customers.

SW17LS

You don't have to guess, there are many members here who have had this work done to their cars and posted where it was done and what it cost. I'm not making that number up, its well documented in this thread and elsewhere. FWIW, I asked my mechanic what he would charge, he would charge about $1,800 to replace the control arms on the LS460.

As for my repair to my ES, I did not know the guy at all actually, it was the first time I ever used him, and I found him because the car needed this work and the dealer had quoted me almost $4,000. He showed me where to order the parts, and they were about $600, and he did the job for something like $950 labor. The car was under or just at 100,000 miles too, I know that because I asked him what he would have charged me to do the timing belt which I had just done at Lexus, and that would have been 90k miles. That was the job that convinced me to stop using the dealer, and I did.

If you would be outraged by this repair, you should not buy an LS460 or any other flagship car lol. This repair is childs play compared to what needs a 7 Series or S Class or A8 or Jaguar XJ might need around the same age. Absolute childs play. If you can't swallow a couple thousand dollars for a suspension repair on a 6,7,10 year old originally $80,000+ car you have no business owning one. Its a much more complex car than a GS and it has more needs. That has always been true of the LS, trust me I've had three, one of which had 170,000 miles when I traded it, the other 110k.

Thats why I bought the ES in 2003. I knew I was going to drive that car a long time, and put a lot of miles on it, I was starting a new business and I did not know how much cash I would have lying around for repairs. I chose a new ES over a CPO 2000 LS400 with 35k miles on it because I knew the LS would potentially be a lot more money to repair because we had the 98 in the family and at that time it had around 130-140k miles. And in the end I was right.

Like I said before, what about the poor owners of first gen LS400s and the alternators? Or second gen LS400s and the starters? They should pay for all those repairs too because that was their mistake? Bottom line is companies make changes to models to improve things, the control arms are under warranty, extended warranties are available...anybody buying a used LS460 you know full well about this if you do some research.

You can't warranty a machine forever.

Thats your assumption, there is no "requirement" that must be so. In my experience, I have had costly repairs on multiple Lexus vehicles prior to or around 100k miles, so I would not have that assumption at all. Like I said though, while I don't expect my LS460 will be perfect, I am confident that I am driving the most reliable flagship level luxury sedan you can buy...and if something is considerably more reliable than its competition, who is to say how much more reliable it should be? What is your alternative if you don't feel the LS460 is reliable enough? The only alternative is to buy some competitors product that will be dramatically less reliable...and what sense does that make?

If you're buying an LS460, put a couple thousand dollars away for control arms. If you're buying an LS400 put a couple thousand dollars away for a starter. If you're buying any older previously expensive luxury sedan if you do not expect some unforeseen repair costs...you're a fool. These are very expensive cars, and yes they do break and when they do it can be costly.

Gbp

If a person wants an ultra luxury car and is unhappy with the LS460, based on design issues, reliability, whatever, then find another car in the same category that is better, or look for a non-ultra luxury car that doesn't have similar issues.

I bought a CPO LS460 for peace of mind, and in part because of the control arms issues. I'll evaluate keeping thread car or selling it when the CPO warranty expires. Recently, the control arms were replaced under warranty at around 79K miles with what I was told were the redesigned parts, so that's one problem I hope I won't have to deal with out of warranty.

As far as Lexus retroactively repairing design flaws for free that don't involve safety and which might or not result in a necessary repair at a specific time after the warranty has expired, good luck with that. I think other car manufacturers are the same in that regard.

roadfrog

Thats for sure. My BMW 7 series had serious issues that were well-known and suffered by almost every owner on the Bimmerfest forums. Not only did BMW not address those issues, there was never any recall on ANYTHING on that car, nor my wife's X5 that also suffered with catastrophic and well-known issues. At least Lexus has addressed POTENTIAL issues with recalls, and those POTENTIAL problems were not even well-known or proven to be problems. I'm confident Lexus has my back. The LS is still the most reliable Luxury car you can buy and it isn't even close. To expect a car to reach 100k miles without repairs is unrealistic. Spending 1500 dollars or so to have an entire front end replaced before 100k miles is ok with me. Lord knows I've had to do far more with my BMW's and Acura, etc.

SupraTurbo

You don't, but obviously many do. I would definitely consider this unusual and excessive by all measures, as do a number of those who have filed complaints against Lexus for this issue causing a redesign only 2 years into the production run. Manufacturers don't just redesign major suspension components 2 years after introducing a vehicle to the market for the hell of it.

Can it be done cheaper elsewhere? Sure. Should it still be considered a design flaw by Lexus? Yes. Regardless if I can get the parts and work done from Joe Schmoe for $10.

An alternator or a starter is not replacing suspension components on a sub-60k mile vehicle, BUT that said, if this is a design flaw by Lexus, which it is, they should address the problem IMO.

Completely disagree with this statement. Again, IMO this should not be viewed as just any repair. Suspension work (excluding shocks/struts) under 60k miles should not be considered realistic.

SupraTurbo

Completely agree! Heck, I ended up throwing my original TT suspension from the Supra on the SC and after 23 years and more than 200k+ miles, everything is still as tight as it was on day one. Yet after a little over 7 years and less than 60k miles the LS suspension is trash. Makes you scratch your head especially after finding out they redesigned the suspension only 2 years into production run.

SW17LS

Like I said, if it's not reliable enough for you, buy a German flagship car lol

To say "the suspension is trash" is a dramatic overstatement. The control arms are just one part of the suspension.

And 2011 is more than 2 years after 2007, I'm not a smart man but I can count on my fingers to that one.

And why should a starter or alternator be excused but control arms aren't? Both of those repairs are just as costly as the control arms!

SupraTurbo

You are completely missing the point suggesting a German flagship car.

Is it an overstatement? If you think its reasonable for suspension components (excluding struts) to wear out at sub-60k miles, you are definitely not a smart man.

Two years or three makes no difference. Suspension components are not redesigned on regular vehicles mid run, let alone before a refresh.

Why? Because those items are not known or expected to last past 100k miles. Regardless of the manufacturer. Major suspension components are.

Anyways. I'm not going to waste my time arguing here. If you feel this is reasonable to replace major suspension components on a sub-60k mile vehicle, then good luck to you. I will continue to pursue my point through Lexus corporate.

SW17LS

Sub 60k miles is also an extreme case. A lot of it depends on roads the vehicle was driven on, etc. Many members here have had well over100k miles on the original control arms.

In any event, if you are buying used as most do, just buy a 2011 or later. Have you owned your LS since new? If not you've been a member here since 2008, so you knew about the control arm repair being common before you bought it. Crying about it now makes no sense.

As for me "not being a smart man", no need to be rude or make personal attacks, it weakens your argument.

Just stating the facts. The 2007 model came out in 2006, the suspension components were redone in 2010 for the 2011, and 2010 was a refresh year. You said the suspension components were redesigned "2 years later" and that is not correct, it was 4 years later

I have had many cars past 100k miles with their original alternator and starter. My 2003 ES300 has its original starter, it has 190,000 miles on it and the alternator was replaced for the first time last year when it had about 185k on it. My 1995 Ford Explorer was towed away last year, at 210,000 miles and 21 years old it had its original starter, and had an alternator replaced once at about 180,000 miles.

YOU feel those parts shouldn't last past 100k miles but control arms should, that hasn't been my experience at all. I have replaced suspension components in my cars much earlier in life than starters and alternators. And in any event, the silly design of the LS400 is what causes those alternator failures (power steering pump fails and leaks into the alternator. Now, thats two failures...why is the pump failing #1), and the starter's location makes what should be a $300 job a $1,300 job.

Arguing with Lexus is just as wasteful of your time. Lexus will not, nor should they cover your control arm repair. Your car is 10 years old, its totally unreasonable to expect Lexus to cover a repair. When you buy an old car, or drive an old car you have to expect you will make some repairs. Its great that its low mileage, but time wears components too, not just mileage, and depending on how those miles were driven the suspension may have taken more of a beating than a car with 150k highway miles.

If I were driving a 10 year old LS, I would not be angry about having to replace the control arms no, certainly not with it being as well documented a common repair as it is. Lexus warrantied the vehicle for a certain period, and beyond which they make no representations or claims as to the longevity of any component on the vehicle...your assumption that suspension components should all last past 100k miles is your own assumption. Like I've said, I've had old Lexus vehicles and they have needed expensive repairs...I was never mad...I was driving an old car and it needed a repair, so I made the repairs.

And like I said...if you're pissed at Lexus....go buy a 7 Series or an S Class or whatever...then you'll know what making expensive repairs is really like lol. The car is far and away the most reliable car in the segment, being pissed off because its not "reliable enough" when any competitor at 10 years old would have had multiple 4 figure repairs by this time is unreasonable. My friend's BMW X5 needed a $4,000 coolant repair when it was 6 years old with 48,000 miles, her 335 needed a $4k suspension job at 6 years old and 35k miles for gods sake, and we're complaining about a suspension issue that can be repaired for $1500-$2000 on a 10 year old originally $80,000 Lexus.

SW17LS

Just noticed this in the other thread on the subject:

LOL. So, $500 for the parts, and $483 in labor to have someone COME TO HIS HOUSE and do the repair. So, $983 and all the control arms are replaced. What a horror story lol. Thats about the cost of a set of tires.

SupraTurbo

How are you going to assume I knew about a vehicle issue based on my current accounts join date? That is idiotic to say the least. No, I was not aware of this issue. I purchased the vehicle in 2012 with 48k miles.

Two, three, or four... should not be acceptable especially considering the low mileage. Obviously based on a large number of these threads, a lot do agree that normal life expectancy of major suspension components is not 4 years or sub-60k miles.

Can and should are two different things. Can I repair it myself, I can. Should I, I don't think so. Obviously talking to Lexus corporate wasn't a waste of time for me since they did replace the control arms last year. I consider it reasonable and obviously Lexus did too. In fact, just last week they have also agreed to replace the drivers door panel on the car which began to stick.

The reason people buy the LS is for its reliability. I have owned a number of BMW and Mercedes cars and in my experience, they're not as reliable. But that is a trade off higher performance, more tech, name, etc ze Germans offer. I've also never heard of "335 needed a $4k suspension job at 6 years old and 35k", and I've owned 3 from new to 50k miles. Must be an isolated issue.

This is my opinion and experience. No need to for personal attacks and "crying" statements.

SW17LS

If you bought the car in 2012 you didn't read the LS460 forums before you did, it's well documented.

If Lexus did replace your control arms, then what do you have to complain about? You say they don't stand behind their customers who have this problem...when they replaced your control arms! What more do you want from them? Do you want them to get on their knees and beg your forgiveness?

This is why IMHO it doesn't pay for a company to go above and beyond for a customer. People have such a sense of entitlement that they're going to be dissatisfied either way.

SupraTurbo

Is it a prerequisite to read the forums before buying an LS?

You are completely missing the point.. again. I never said that I currently need the control arms replaced did I? You make a number of baseless assumptions. You act as if I should run and post it on the forums as soon as it happens. This was nearly 2 years ago, but I'm posting now.

That is your opinion and this is mine. You are a fool if you think Lexus shouldn't cover this repair. Good luck.

SW17LS

I would certainly do some research before I purchased any vehicle, certainly a used vehicle.

What I don't understand is why you are still angry when Lexus covered this repair for you out of warranty. What more do you want them to do for you? No, I don't think they should cover this repair, and this is the perfect example why...it doesn't get them anything by going above and beyond and standing behind the product, people still bash them as you've done here.

I'm a fool? I'm not the one who bought a car without doing even a cursory bit of research into its issues and common problems.