jbuffett

Bought the car in July, 44K miles, CPO'd, and every time I find a problem with the car there's a service bulletin for it. It's to the point where I come here first looking for fixes. Service adviser at the dealer is cool about me handing him a stack of TSIB's, I've probably had 10 done so far. Loving the car, loving the service experience.

Until this past Thursday, when I drop the car off for the valve recall *and* to get the TSIB done for the dashboard / instrument panel rattle. It just got cold here in north Texas, my first winter with the car, and this noise is driving me nuts. So I come here, surf around and find TSIB NV011-07 (Link) and I'm good to go. On the way out my adviser says (first time I've heard this) "let me make sure that the extended warranty applies to this work", and I think uh oh I've never heard that before. I had just gone over 50K miles, apparently that was the tipping point.

Pick the car up, valve recall done, no work done for the dash rattle. Find my service adviser and he says that the CPO warranty doesn't cover it. He gave me two phone numbers, one for the CPO guys and one for general customer service. I call the CPO guys and he says sorry the dash isn't covered (but there's a TSIB?), he tells me to call corporate to get the factory warranty guys to cover it. I called corporate, gave a long description of everything and they're going to call me back.

For all the problems that I've seen on this car in the 6 months of owning it, pretty much every one of them has been covered by a TSIB (the 4 wind noise TSIB's helped, jmcraney's fix finished it). That's a good thing! Toyota recognizes that this is their flagship car, that the folks buying these cars are the folks that are worth catering to (I'm 35 and buy a car every 2-3 years), they identify and fix the problems quick. For this TSIB specifically, they found the problem less than a year after the car came out (September '07). The previous owner lived in Florida so cold weather issues like this probably never came up.

Here's what concerns me: now that I'm (barely) out of the factory warranty, how many TSIB's am I going to find in the next 10-20K miles that the CPO folks won't cover. I understand "bumper to bumper" doesn't mean precisely that, I'm not asking for tires or brakes or a new clutch (i.e. wear parts). I understand that TSIB's can't be indefinite, but maybe Toyota should make all of them applicable to extended/CPO warranties? I asked the adviser for the cost of the repair, it's $5-10 worth of parts and 4 hours of labor (@ $140/hr).

Basically this experience has caused me to become wary of purchasing another CPO car, especially one as prone to little problems and as expensive to fix as the LS460, if the CPO folks are going to pick and choose which known problems that they want to fix. Yeah, the engine/drivetrain are all great and I'm sure the car will go 200K+ without a hitch, but if they expect me to live with this rattling noise every winter, I can't imagine keeping the car for very long or ever buying another one.

cmasten

http://www.lexus.com/cpo/overview/warranty.html

I own a CPO also, it would appear that Dash Cover mentioned below is what they are interpreting this as. Its strange they would replace the Pillars and glove box but not add in the felt pads for the dash. I just took firm black foam and cut smaller pieces and placed them in between the window and dash top, they are not visible and it has helped keep the pins from making noise.

Exclusions Ref:

Body and Interior:
bumpers, carpet, chrome, dash cover and pad, door trim, handles, fabric, glass (including windshield), headliner, hinges, interior and exterior trim and moldings, cupholders, ashtrays, covers and vents, lightbulbs, nuts, bolts, clips, retainers and fasteners, paint, rust and corrosion damage, seat covers, shiny metals, weather stripping.

msgs350

iTrader: (2)

I own a CPO also (bought with 48K) and i believe 50k is the tipping point like you mentioned. They attempted to fix the rattles @ 49k but i still have the rattles, not to mention brake squeals. I have 60k now and seems like buying CPO is POINTLESS! They don't want to fix brake squeals or rattles anymore and referred me to Lexus corporate instead.

I finally called Lexus corporate about the TSIB fixes and asked what's so great about CPO if you guys cant warranty the work from TSIB??!! i got.... " we will investigate and get back to you after the holidays".

40cpe

I bought an '07 SWB with 7,000 miles on it this last Feb. I bought it from a broker so I couldn't get a CPO, although I tried, I bought the platinum warranty extended to eight total years. It was a Toyota Corporate Sales car. The comprehensive warranty expired Nov. 15 and I began to hear a muffled noise behind the pocket a couple of weeks later at about 14,000 mi. It sounds like the pocket material bumping and gets louder if I open the pocket. I've tried pushing on various areas of the pocket and can't get the noise to change. It's only on rough roads and isn't often enough to say for certainty where it's coming from.

From reading the TSB on the dash clips, I don't believe this noise is coming from the clips. The dealer did the pocket TSB before I took the car and I'm wondering if this noise is something related to that? Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

JSTALEX

Can anyone give me a list of all the TSIB's. I'm going to pick up my '07 LWB tomorrow since i dropped her off to get the VSR done. I want to ask them what problems have been addressed and see if they give me an updates list, and ask why they haven't brought that up to my attention.

Please post!

cmasten

http://www.lambros.net/2007LS460L/tsib/

most current list I am aware of

JSTALEX

Thanks! That's alot of shlt!!!

jbuffett

Got a call back from the Lexus factory warranty people, they are "good will" allowing the TSIB for the dash rattle, at 2K miles outside the factory warranty that's appreciated but not surprising.

I raised my concern about the CPO warranty not covering all TSIB issues, the factory guy tried to explain the difference between a "recall" and a "service bulletin" by saying that a recall is a problem that "will happen" and a service bulletin is a problem that "might happen". I had to resist the urge to laugh. I suspect that the issue is more related to safety/liability: the valve recall is a safety/emissions issue, whereas Lexus isn't going to go to the expense to replace some defective dashboard clips except on an as-needed basis.

So, my concerns with this car and the CPO program still stand. If Lexus considers these problems as substantial enough to be identified and covered by a TSIB, but are willing to let the CPO warranty pick and choose which TSIBs to cover, I would seriously think twice about buying another CPO car that is out of the factory warranty. Having already had 8-10 TSIBs performed on this car in the 6 months that I've owned it, I consider the next 10-20K miles of CPO coverage to be a probationary period. If I continue to have known TSIB issues with the car and the CPO warranty won't cover them, I can't see owning the car long-term or recommending the Lexus CPO program to other potential buyers.

VA380

So lemme get this straight .... I have an 07 LS460L CPO, and I'm about to hit 50k ... so with that being said I can no longer have TSIB's done because of the mileage?

If that's the case, I was drastically unaware of the mileage issue of the CPO lol.

cmasten

I bought mine CPO at 60k miles and have had no issues getting TSBs taken care of IF my car showed the condition that the TSB spoke of, they wont take care of a TSB if the car is not showing the symptoms. According to my SA, I will get the same care that I would if I had bought new and that has been my experience in the last year.

With that said the CPO warranty and what is excluded is clearly stated on their contracts and on their web site. They will CPO a vehicle up to 70k miles if the other criteria is met.

flipside909

Some of you guys are failing to realize just because there is a TSIB posted for your particular model year car doesn't mean every single one applies. There is a criteria for your car to meet before a TSIB fix can be performed. TSIB for a certain problem always states the production vin range from 1xx01 to 1xx99 or production dates of 1/07 to 1/08 and so on. Also TSIB's are not a free ticket to get all your parts replaced, even if you expect something to happen. TSIB's can range from as simple as a bumper mounting clip revision to a production change for part suppliers. It's not a mandatory manifest that dealers must do if you complain about it. It's simply there to state any changes or issues that have been reported previously. CPO cars are a great value, but they are not going to be 100% perfect. Buy new if you have doubts.

randomwalk

CPO = Ext warranty = not everything is covered

IXI187IXI

iTrader: (3)

TSB's are not recalls, there for even out of warranty they will not fix it for free like a recall, however there is a manufacturer warranty for any part that has been replaced. that warranty is 1yr/12k

jbuffett

The factory bumper-to-bumper warranty expires at 4y/50K miles, the CPO wasn't going to cover my dash rattle because it is (as randomwalk said) an extended warranty, not the factory warranty, and it specifically has an exclusion for the dashboard (and other components). Their position is that nothing dashboard-related is covered by the CPO warranty, even though I found that I was experiencing an issue that was identified/fixed by a TSIB.

In most instances the TSIB identifies a frequent problem with some/all cars before a certain VIN (as flipside said), and the fix from Lexus is typically a redesigned part that is then used on all future cars when they are built. Take for example the B-pillar lower trim pieces that rub against the seatbelts and eventually wear a hole through the surface material. Mine already had the hole worn in them, so I had them replaced at 48K miles (redesigned part). If I had waited until 52K miles, I would probably be going through this process as well.

In those instances where a design/part fault has been identified by a TSIB, I think Lexus should have the CPO warranty also cover those fixes. As the title of the post stated, the CPO warranty can basically pick&choose which issues to cover because of the affected part, even if that part has been redesigned and addressed by a TSIB. I understand the economics of not issuing a recall to replace some redesigned dashboard clips, not all cars will have this problem, but for the ones that do, Lexus should cover the repair out to the ~100K mile limit for the CPO warranty.

"CPO cars are a great value"

Yep, I paid ~$40K for a car that originally cost ~$70K, that's pretty awesome. I paid a premium to buy it CPO, and for this they gave me a warranty that doesn't always cover all of the issues that they have already identified and fixed on the newer cars. I'm not saying that they should make the car as good as new, and I'm not saying that they should cover the known issues past the CPO warranty duration. I'm just questioning the value of the CPO program if the warranty provided doesn't cover all of the known issues on the car (TSIBs) for the duration of the warranty. Imagine all the people out there looking at 55-60K mile CPO'd '07's that haven't had any wind noise TSIBs done. What kind of poor impression is that going to give people for the CPO process, this car and this brand if those fixes aren't covered under warranty?

VA380

I thought the CPO gave you 3 years coverage from date of purchase, basically like buying a new car.