Thanks for the reply but I must respond to this quote of yours above with the responses on townhall-talk at Edmunds.com. I just spent an hour reading all the posts in a particular thread about LS 460 Owner Experiences and it's pretty depressing.

These are some of the things I've read there -

"I have 460 for over 18 month now, I have also owned 400 and 430. I must said I would pick 430 as the best LS sedan.

460 interior is bit tight and small, sitting in the driver seat you look around and I would feel like I was driving a small sporty sedan, the coin tray placement is akward too, I also miss the air conditioning system of the 430 which turns automatically that blows out the cool fresh air. The navigation system of my 460 does not work too well either, many address I typed in which will not find. The exterior of the car look similar to ES300, if you park ES300 and LS460 side by side, they look almost the same.

Before I traded in 430 for 460 I did not think twice, I trusted Lexus reputation, for my next car, I will look hard before I committe to another LS."

"Well I started this conversation regarding the jerky transmission, etc. back in 2007. I now have 30K on the car and have tried to have it taken back under the Lemon Law. Unfortunately, I failed. The car is worse now. Performance is not smooth any longer and the transmission often slips a little between shifts. I would say that accelleration is down about 10%. I could go on and on, but as has been the case for too long, the dealer can't find anything wrong. Absolutely pathetic! This is one erratic automobile. For someone who has been a car buff most of my life, I can say that this car has had me going up and down like a YoYo for more than 10 years. I am done. I will sell it and buy something else."

"Well, I started this conversation regarding the erractic behavior of my LS460 a long time ago. I have not revisited this site since, but the problem still exists with the transmission and now the performance. I have gone so far as to take this issue to the Lemon Law board. By the way, don't bother. These idiots are in love with this car and would not know a rough shift from a smooth. Back to my Lexus. Now my performance is erratic. It runs too lean, but don't try to tell that to the Lexus people. In cold weather, I have an entirely different car. Once the temp rises past 70ish, it is not fun to drive any longer. Smooth and quiet in cold weather, noisier and erratic when it is warm. I noticed someone say that their dealer talked about the car learning the habits of its driver. BS. The reality is that Lexus just won't admit that this car is not perfect. This is my third LS and the most unpredictable one. I will never buy another. My Chevrolet 3/4 ton diesel pickup truck is more predictable. Enough said"

"My LS 460 HAS BEEN IN THE SHOP 4 TIMES FOR THIS WIND NOISE! NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO IT DON'T GET ANY BETTER. MY NEXT STEP WILL BE A LAW SUIT. IT DONT MAKE SENSE TO PAY OVER 70TH DOLLARS FOR A LEMON. I HAVE DRIVEN LEXUS SINCE 1994 BUT I WILL NOT BUT ANOTHER UNLESS THEY MAKE THIS RIGHT."

"I have driven a Lexus for more than 15 years and so proud of my new beautiful LS460 delivered last Friday evening. On Saturday after, several panel lights appeared, cruise control stopped working, break hold warning light came on and stated service immediately, etc. Called salesman, not to worry, he says bring in early Monday a quick computer fix, WRONG. Now after many excuses and odd stories and finally a look at my car with the engine half taken apart, I cannot believe what is going on. With less than two hunderd miles and more then $75,000 invested would anyone want to take that same car back after seeing it all apart and basically no one giving me a straight answer at the dealership. Please let me know if anyone else has experienced this with a new delivery of a LS460."

"Very sorry to hear of your troubles with the LS460. I too took delivery a few months ago of the car. The driver’s seat literally collapsed and had to be replaced. I was reminded at the time that it cost Lexus $6,000 to replace it. A host of things started to happen not unlike what you are experiencing; so I finally dumped it and took somewhat of a loss. Am now driving a 2010 RX350. Newly redesigned after many years. Car drives like a truck. I have a bad back and I will have to get rid of this car also. In my humble opinion Lexus has taken to making their cars as cheap as possible and in turn charging more for them. When I drive the RX I feel like I am getting in and old coffee can and driving roughly and noisily down the street. I will get rid of this car ASAP and probably go to a Honda or if I still can afford upscale I will go with Buick or Cadillac or maybe even KIA. Let me say something here George. Your dealer can UNDO your deal. it is possible. I can’t reveal the details online but you can get out of that car without taking a bad hit. Just do it ASAP. You wait too long and…………….One more thing. Yes, I have driven Lexus for over 10 years. I will never ever buy another Lexus – period! Anyway good luck to you whichever way you go."

"I was going from a 2001 LS430 to a 2009 LS460 and the first thing that is bad is the drivers entrance.I have to insert my right foot into the well and then clear my head at the door sill before I can sit down.This means twisting my my right knee while the head brushes the top of the door sill.Very anoying and eventually painful.I am only 5' 8" so I do not know how a 6 footer does it. Second the ride is very harsh not even close to a LS430. Every undulation,pavement joint,or pot hole is registered painfullly in the drivers kidneys. It drives like an oxcart at any speed be it 30 or 70 MPH. The dealer has the famous automotive answer "they all do it". There is no wind noise as reported by others and so far no down time. This is my 4th LS in 12 Years and my advice is "do not buy it". If you want a truck get one much cheaper then 70K."

"i have an 08 ls 460 and i live in vegas were its over 100 degrees for like 3-4 months....as soon as summer kicked i have had a serious gas fumes smell issue everytime i filled up my tank..would get home and park in the garage and within 5 minutes the entire garage smelled like gas to a point were it would make your eyes tear...this would go on for a day and half...the service department told me its normal for the gas tank to purge itself after a fill especially in the summer time when its hot...they checked out my vehicle and found nothing wrong...and told me that others were complaining but just dealing with it...well i am not happy about dealing with it as i have two little ones at home that this can effect health wise..anyone else have input on this matter...?"

I realize that these are problems that only some people have had. Maybe all carmakers have this or many more problems but it's making me wonder now...

I don't own a 460, but I do own a 12 year old LS 400. This car has been remarkably reliable and has held up very well over the years. In fact, it still looks and drives like new. Many times while driving the car, I have to remind myself that it's 12 years old.

The LS series, is one of the best built and most reliable cars in automotive history. I could honestly say that my six year old daughter could probably inherit this car when she begins driving and have safe and reliable transportation. When I decide to replace my LS, it will probably be because I would like a new car, not because I need one.

Yes, I have read of some wind noise problems in the 07 460's and it is a legitimate issue when you spend 70K+ on a car. However, overall the LS is one of the best built and best values in the luxury segment. If you check the other LS forums, you'll find that the owners of 400s, 430s and 460s are very satisfied with their cars.

I still really like my 400 from its styling (very European) to its build quality. The 460 is a great car. I think you would truly enjoy the ownership experience.

I knew about the wind noise and the seat cushion for driver and passenger need to replace with harder foam before buying the car. The gas purge is probably bogus claim so is the $6K seat replacement. You ought to see who post these with regular post or just trolls. My LS460 has been the best car and I had 995 and S class cars in the past when it comes to overall value with rock solid dependability. In straight line pass, the Lexus does okay but it can't do much in the turn.

Thanks for this vote of confidence for the LS 460. I guess on the internet you hear more about the problems than people who are ecstatically happy with their cars.

Having some familiarity with the Edmunds boards from past years, I find that you'll get a concentration of gripes and complainers there. Certainly, if you want to know every possible thing that can go wrong, you can sift through the posts there on many different makes and models and find some issues. However some of them are legitimate, others are more driven by the clique-style attitudes of some regular posters.

One of those complaints in past years I've seen there was the 'LS 460 front seat space is small like a sports sedan' meme, which is uncommon pretty much anywhere else, and is one of those things that some posters have brought up and then it sticks in one's mind. In my real life experience, I don't find the LS 460 front seat small at all, or the environment poorly designed--actually the opposite. But it's subjective to a point, and based on one's body size and shape. I encourage people to trust their own judgment first instead of being colored by the complaints of any particular forum.

Some of the unhappy owners who are loudest online switched from a late model LS 430 or LS 400 to the 2007 first year LS 460, and even for Lexus, the first year there were some glitches that needed to be worked out; for some, a transmission TSIB to change behavior towards comfort (some were uncomfortable with settings biased towards fuel economy); and the wind noise issue being the most common (but largely fixable particularly with jmcraney's method). Some have wanted to a plusher seat, which some dealers have obliged with more padding.

However, the vast, vast majority of owners will never experience a) seat falling apart b) lemon law need due to electric malfunctions, c) engine breakdowns. It can happen even to an LS, but by and large that likelihood is far less than any other luxury brand, and the statistical data tabulated by CR and JD Power confirm it. IMO, the complaints posted on the Edmunds board represent a small minority; some of it is driven by antipathy towards the brand. For a brand-new LS 460, I'd have full confidence in the product, for a used LS 460, I'd do my due diligence regarding the previous owner(s) and service history; and if serviced well by a Lexus dealership and in good condition, it should continue to drive well.

Encore888 - I really appreciate your reply. My Porsche friends and my BMW friends both think I'm crazy to make this move. I have to keep in mind that they're totally biased of course. You wouldn't believe the negative comments they've made about the LS 460. I defended the car as best I could, but they were pretty much relentless. Many of them thought the wood in the interior looked awful and orangey. I think it's the pics on the internet - sometimes they don't come out that great in the dealer ads.

Everyone has an opinion and a passion I guess. I still think it's a great car and reliability is starting to become very important to me, which is my main reason for looking to do this.

No problem, it's understandable that Europhile buyers will be hard to convince, but the LS 460 stands on its merits and it's your own opinion as an owner which counts most. With regards to the wood, Lexus has typically used high-gloss finishes, which can photograph strangely in certain lighting conditions. In real life though they are usually quite nice. Not to mention they are matched be grain across all trim pieces, a unique Lexus touch.

Sounds to me like your very reluctant to do this move. The cars you own(Porshe/BMW) are so not Lexus. So, let me just say dont come to the forum saying how the BMW and Porsche drove if you buy any Lexus dear sir. Im warning you now, the LS and any Lexus doesnt handle like any BMW and especially any Porsche. The LS460 or any LS is a quiet conservative mans car. You should consider this before buying and see it as a needed decision even after buying so you can rid of buyers remorse because its likely you will have some.

Lexus owners are typically those who are practical as your Wife is regardless of there sex(male/female) and decided on Lexus from a wide range of reasons. Me it was what your dealing with, reliability and service cost. $2,500 a year is steep, not crazy but steep. And to European cars will do you in. Thats the tradeoff to European makes, the higher cost. When you get or if you get a Lexus of any model, take into account that its about reliability and comfort, not performance. Lexus is not a Benz,BMW or Audi sir, its a Lexus.

Its much to enjoy and the GREAT things about the Lexus brand for the most part is that if services are done on schedule you will have no issues. Aside from wear and tear that normally occurs, thats it. Nothing more, no extra cost. Just keep the car serviced and you spend no time in the dealerships service department.

All that said, the LS460 is a great buy, and also a LS430 would be a reliable buy, I know, I know, you dont like the look of the LS430 perhaps but, in these economic times we are learning how much more we had that we did not need. Maybe we all have seen that having something is a blessing and nothing is what many abroad deal with as normal. My point is, that a LS430 or LS460 is a great car to have and regardless of the tough times you've faced your fortunate to trade into a Lexus.

Also, my lady owns a Acura, not a RL but shes owned 3, all reliable shes in a TSX now and has 180,000 miles on it, problem free. And the few issues she has had have been good on the pockets. In these times with folks losing jobs, I dont care about what I drive and Im fortunate and happy to have what I do, these times have humbled me!!!

Hope what you buy you like but remember, the LS of any model and any Lexus will not be comparable to a BMW,Porshe,Benz,Jag or Audi!!! All the best potential new member. L.G.N.M

I agree with this man 100%!!!!
 

I totally agree, I feel that will be an issue he will deal with because among my circle of friends aside from my lady only one besides me doesnt own a European make. They all disrespect Lexus. In my opinion its all about ignorance(not a bad word just means there uninformed) and there opinions arent biased they are without tasting the cookie.

I dont care for this car is better, that car is better arguments anymore myself. Iv'e matured and realize that what we buy and like is somewhat based on conditions and some cases based on taste and for others based on having money to burn. For me I buy based on economics. I dont believe happiness comes from spending $400,000 for a car and trips t the South of France. And yes, I can go there and had a chance to do so for free with a close friend at the time and said no. I spent that time with my lady and our child in VA because things mean nothing to me.

What has value to me is what we as individuals see as important, my beliefs arent right, no they arent. They just make sense to me. So to those who think $400,000 for a car makes them better than me, nothing will change how they feel and thats how European car buyers tend to think. They look down on Japanese autos and American autos as well. Doesnt mean there wrng, there right because its ll about perspective and what matters to you.

You are going to have to let your friends talk and talk and maybe one day, tey will do as I did being I owned 2 Benzes. Get in a Lexus like me and see the advantages as opposed to the disadvantages and they do exist but, the advantages out weigh the cons. All the best fellow new member and GREAT INFO Encore888!!! L.G.N.M:D

I'm definitely going into this eye wide open. I realize what I'd be giving up and what I'd be getting. I certainly don't expect a Lexus to handle like a BMW or Porsche but after my test drive in the 07 LS, I loved it. I'll really like not having to spend so much money on fixing it. That's a huge plus and a source of resentment in my family that we end up fixing my cars instead of going on vacations (because the money's gone).

My wife will be very happy the day I make this decision. Thanks again for your insights. Funny story - talked with an old friend today in person about this decision. He was standing in front of his 2002 M5 and I was next to my 2001 740i. He kept putting down the Lexus and I kept defending it. He said the BMW handles so great, and putting up with the high maintenance is just part of the game. I had to laugh at this because I am fairly sick of the maintenance. We are just at 2 different points in our lives.

It's all good... and what does L.G.N.M stand for? I'm stretching my brain. I even used an acronym website and turned up nothing!

L.G.N.M means, Love.God.Not.Money. I usually use the initials because I have been attacked for any mention of GOD on this and other sites so, out of respect for the non-religious I use the initials instead. So any person who desnt like me explaining what it means, Im not trying to push religion. Terrible I feel I have to explain this but, some of the attacks I suffered were horrible. I am not trying to push religion and if anyone was offended for me explaining the meaning I apologize humbly.

Also Steve, the LS is a car you will enjoy because of the very reason you are selling the European makes. You spend less on the car. Regular wear and tear is the only thing you have to pay for buddy. Just do all recommended services and thats it. I have a car with 106,000 miles on it and the only issues are regular wear and tear. I just do all my regular services and go!!!! L.G.N.M

So what did you end up doing?

It all boils down to what you want. Do you want refinement, or do you want passion? The entire LS line is completely devoid of the latter...

You test drove the 460 and 'loved it' and you are defending it to your buddies, so this tells me you have or close to pulling the trigger. Your buds will have to accept the fact that you are making your choice based on what is best for you, your family and your situation period! In the end you will have to live with what ends up in your garage, not us or your European bias friends. Funny thing peer pressure never ends even after we become adults, clearly you are not a follower but a your own man....good for you sir!

Thanks Tee. They're going to be blown away and have their Japanese car prejudices disbanded once I buy the car and take them for the ride of their lives. I felt that the LS 460 handled awesomely when I drove it, had great power for a large car, and boasted an interior cabin that was Mercedes S Class and BMW 7 class comparable. What's not to love, really? I'd really like having an 08 S550 instead or of course an S63 but I can't afford those cars. I'd love a 760i BMW 12 Cyl or 2010 new body styled 750i but they're out of my range with the eventual repairs that will be needed so the LS 460 is a great 3rd choice. Ok, I'd also love the new Audi S8:eek2: but they are WAYYYY too expensive.

Lexus rocks and I hope to be rocking one of them when I get to selling my 2 other cars. I'm one big repair/costly problem away from making the move. Without this forum, I doubt I'd have the information or courage to make this decision. I'm grateful to everyone that contributes to this interesting forum.