LS 460 RWD Handling on Snow
01-20-15, 08:07 AM
#61
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ontario
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I'll add a couple more cents....
Have driven my RWD 460 for 4 winters in Ontario (temp down to about -22F/-30C). Snow up to about 6" deep and lots of black ice. Michelin x-ice2 winters allround. 100lbs sand in the trunk. Snow button softens the throttle response significantly. I have never failed to get where I wanted to go, although a couple of times the decision to drive (in any vehicle) was stupid (ice) . I have a deep respect for physics and apply it regularly. I have passed dozens of fwd cars stuck on hills, just gently keep the beast moving. Snow I really don't see as an issue until it gets beyond the clearance under the vehicle because then your suspended and tires don't reach the road!! That said I do not venture on to significant hills where I know gravity would be my undoing.
On black ice I have found the issue is more with the front than the rear. The front will slide sideways with just the camber of the road heading me towards the ditch. Very gentle input, no brakes and knocking into neutral has kept me on the road. Turns on ice I make at idle speed in neutral no brakes, in drive the rears push the fronts and they break traction and you go straight on at some point in the turn - towards the curb. I have driven through carnage on the highways, I now take the first exit and drive the backroads, too many idiots going wayyyy too fast, I don't want to be collateral damage. The secret is knowing how long it will take to stop and adjust your speed to the space, cos its a heavy beast. I test the braking frequently with a tap on the brakes and adjust. On ice i'm down to below 40kph with 100 yds/metres of clear space around me cos that's what it will take to stop, and I'm always looking for snow to use - it has grip.
Its not the ideal winter car, my wife's Highlander is way better but it can do the job most of the time if driven intelligently.
Have driven my RWD 460 for 4 winters in Ontario (temp down to about -22F/-30C). Snow up to about 6" deep and lots of black ice. Michelin x-ice2 winters allround. 100lbs sand in the trunk. Snow button softens the throttle response significantly. I have never failed to get where I wanted to go, although a couple of times the decision to drive (in any vehicle) was stupid (ice) . I have a deep respect for physics and apply it regularly. I have passed dozens of fwd cars stuck on hills, just gently keep the beast moving. Snow I really don't see as an issue until it gets beyond the clearance under the vehicle because then your suspended and tires don't reach the road!! That said I do not venture on to significant hills where I know gravity would be my undoing.
On black ice I have found the issue is more with the front than the rear. The front will slide sideways with just the camber of the road heading me towards the ditch. Very gentle input, no brakes and knocking into neutral has kept me on the road. Turns on ice I make at idle speed in neutral no brakes, in drive the rears push the fronts and they break traction and you go straight on at some point in the turn - towards the curb. I have driven through carnage on the highways, I now take the first exit and drive the backroads, too many idiots going wayyyy too fast, I don't want to be collateral damage. The secret is knowing how long it will take to stop and adjust your speed to the space, cos its a heavy beast. I test the braking frequently with a tap on the brakes and adjust. On ice i'm down to below 40kph with 100 yds/metres of clear space around me cos that's what it will take to stop, and I'm always looking for snow to use - it has grip.
Its not the ideal winter car, my wife's Highlander is way better but it can do the job most of the time if driven intelligently.
01-20-15, 07:02 PM
#62
Pole Position
I'll add a couple more cents....
Have driven my RWD 460 for 4 winters in Ontario (temp down to about -22F/-30C). Snow up to about 6" deep and lots of black ice. Michelin x-ice2 winters allround. 100lbs sand in the trunk. Snow button softens the throttle response significantly. I have never failed to get where I wanted to go, although a couple of times the decision to drive (in any vehicle) was stupid (ice) . I have a deep respect for physics and apply it regularly. I have passed dozens of fwd cars stuck on hills, just gently keep the beast moving. Snow I really don't see as an issue until it gets beyond the clearance under the vehicle because then your suspended and tires don't reach the road!! That said I do not venture on to significant hills where I know gravity would be my undoing.
On black ice I have found the issue is more with the front than the rear. The front will slide sideways with just the camber of the road heading me towards the ditch. Very gentle input, no brakes and knocking into neutral has kept me on the road. Turns on ice I make at idle speed in neutral no brakes, in drive the rears push the fronts and they break traction and you go straight on at some point in the turn - towards the curb. I have driven through carnage on the highways, I now take the first exit and drive the backroads, too many idiots going wayyyy too fast, I don't want to be collateral damage. The secret is knowing how long it will take to stop and adjust your speed to the space, cos its a heavy beast. I test the braking frequently with a tap on the brakes and adjust. On ice i'm down to below 40kph with 100 yds/metres of clear space around me cos that's what it will take to stop, and I'm always looking for snow to use - it has grip.
Its not the ideal winter car, my wife's Highlander is way better but it can do the job most of the time if driven intelligently.
Have driven my RWD 460 for 4 winters in Ontario (temp down to about -22F/-30C). Snow up to about 6" deep and lots of black ice. Michelin x-ice2 winters allround. 100lbs sand in the trunk. Snow button softens the throttle response significantly. I have never failed to get where I wanted to go, although a couple of times the decision to drive (in any vehicle) was stupid (ice) . I have a deep respect for physics and apply it regularly. I have passed dozens of fwd cars stuck on hills, just gently keep the beast moving. Snow I really don't see as an issue until it gets beyond the clearance under the vehicle because then your suspended and tires don't reach the road!! That said I do not venture on to significant hills where I know gravity would be my undoing.
On black ice I have found the issue is more with the front than the rear. The front will slide sideways with just the camber of the road heading me towards the ditch. Very gentle input, no brakes and knocking into neutral has kept me on the road. Turns on ice I make at idle speed in neutral no brakes, in drive the rears push the fronts and they break traction and you go straight on at some point in the turn - towards the curb. I have driven through carnage on the highways, I now take the first exit and drive the backroads, too many idiots going wayyyy too fast, I don't want to be collateral damage. The secret is knowing how long it will take to stop and adjust your speed to the space, cos its a heavy beast. I test the braking frequently with a tap on the brakes and adjust. On ice i'm down to below 40kph with 100 yds/metres of clear space around me cos that's what it will take to stop, and I'm always looking for snow to use - it has grip.
Its not the ideal winter car, my wife's Highlander is way better but it can do the job most of the time if driven intelligently.
It certainly isn't ideal, but it's reasonable in 2-3 inches if you go slow and use your head.
01-27-15, 12:03 AM
#63
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: va
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I Don't know what you guys are even talking about
I'm in the car right now pulling off inch-perfect power slides in our first real snow of the year. Compared to my '04 m3 on Pirelli track tires, this thing is great. It IS an oaf. It IS heavy. But what more do you want in the snow? Mine is of course RWD or I wouldn't be doing all the slidy-bits with it, but you have to realize you are not talking jeeps... compare your car to other large RWD saloon cars, and you would be amazed at the gem you have. Stopping distance isnt even terrible because all the weight in the front digs the front wheels in REALLY hard. You can feel the ABS shifting breaking around to all 4, and the "snow" button has its merits. I'm out in a parking lot at my old high school absolutely LOVING it. You just ease the tail out and you could hold a mug of coffee the ride is so smooth; its ..weird. In a straight line and for "safe" driving practices in the snow, if I had to pick a big old 4-door to drive, it WOULD be the Lexus. Hey, I could have taken the Titan out, but that was last night. Yes, I am trained. No, I don't care if you smashed yours; thats because you are untrained. Learn the car's physics. If you drive it like a roadster, you will surely die a snowy death. It's kind of like flying a jet; you do everything slower and you plan a few more steps ahead. You break early, and roll the power on slow. The V8 is a torque monster. So expect that tail to break loose if you breath at the throttle. I'm in about 2 and a half inches out here, which is no more than you should ever expect on maintained roads. The wider tires do make for a headache, but do what anyone would do in poor terrain; air down your tires! Roll the throttle on slow, and dont panic when the tail ends gets a little squiggly. Keep metering the gas and for god sakes dont panic and take your foot out of the pedal...or worse...break.
01-27-15, 06:13 AM
#64
Pole Position
^^^LOL!
I dropped my daughter of at dance class the other day and before we got there I asked her, you don't mind if I do a couple of doughnuts, do you? There was a couple of inches on the ground. I accidentally left the traction control on and it wouldn't allow me to do one....I just kept driving around in circles as the car beeped at me. Once I shut it off it was magic!
I dropped my daughter of at dance class the other day and before we got there I asked her, you don't mind if I do a couple of doughnuts, do you? There was a couple of inches on the ground. I accidentally left the traction control on and it wouldn't allow me to do one....I just kept driving around in circles as the car beeped at me. Once I shut it off it was magic!
01-27-15, 08:40 AM
#65
Lexus Test Driver
the TSC on this car is great and saved me the day i bought it on my way out of chicago. hit a slippery ramp at around 80 MPH and went sideways while i fought the wheel the ABS did it's magic and got me back into a straght line. i would give some credit to the classes i have taken at Mid-Ohio, but with out this cars systems i would have wrecked.
RWD works just fine for me!
RWD works just fine for me!
01-27-15, 12:31 PM
#66
I got a crash course on learning to drive in snow. My classroom was Detroit. And it was when I was working in design for Toyota. My tool, a 1983 Mazda RX-7. RWD (of course), 5 speed manual, riding on Maypops.
Want to accelerate? Get ready, lots of steering input involved. Want to brake? Hahaha, nice one. I had to make a reservation to do so. Traction control? In my hands, feet & brain.
The whole 5 years I lived in Michigan, I had NOT ONE crash. That RX-7 was the perfect car to train in. Every other car I drove in the winter was like driving a snow mobile ... like it was made to do it.
The primary thing I learned from "training" for snow driving in the RX-7 was that I had to leave a a drag strip of space between myself and the car I was following. Due to the Maypops, and rear axle brake bias (maybe just cause it was old), stopping was seriously involved, lots of pucker factor. This was in 1999 - 2001 that I winter drove that car. It would not accelerate quickly (it just spun), but that never got me stuck. I got passed plenty. Saw several cars that passed me wind up in a snow bank (plowed snow). But in Michigan they were quick to treat the roads, so maybe by the time I was on the way home, the roads were dry ... or at least much better.
I agree with the poster that said 4WD vehicles were the worst in the winter (not how he stated it) because the drivers drove like the King of the Road. Tried to go fast. And paid the price more than anyone else. 4WD pickups that is, not AWD cars.
Last winter about this time we had the IcePocalypse in Atlanta. I stayed at work until 4:30 pm. I was the last person in the building. Only because I have a short easy 3.5 mile drive home and a lot of work to do. I saw first hand the leading cause for all the mayhem on the roads in Atlanta. The #2 reason was because there was ice buildup and very slippery. But the #1 reason was because people were driving like morons ... right on each other's rear bumper. My ride home is about 2.5 miles on a 4 lane (2 each direction). On that 4 lane, it looked like a train, about a mile long. Everybody in one lane and I mean RIGHT ON each other's bumper. I was floored. If one person had slid, or done anything erratic, everybody behind that person would have piled into them. I took the wide open lane and cruised easily. Just baffling the ignorant way people drive in adverse conditions. I was in my FWD minivan. No problem.
After I got home, I pulled out the atv played!
There's no doubt AWD is advantageous. Especially in heavy snow. On ice, the advantage diminishes (but still there) and most everybody is in near the same predicament. On ice its all about managing acceleration (whether it be speeding up, slowing down, turning). Managing acceleration. Those accelerations that an accelerometer measures. The lower the acceleration the less likely that a loss of traction will be involved. My truck's 4WD's advantage is that it might get me unstuck if I were to slide off the road when it's slick. Not much else.
Want to accelerate? Get ready, lots of steering input involved. Want to brake? Hahaha, nice one. I had to make a reservation to do so. Traction control? In my hands, feet & brain.
The whole 5 years I lived in Michigan, I had NOT ONE crash. That RX-7 was the perfect car to train in. Every other car I drove in the winter was like driving a snow mobile ... like it was made to do it.
The primary thing I learned from "training" for snow driving in the RX-7 was that I had to leave a a drag strip of space between myself and the car I was following. Due to the Maypops, and rear axle brake bias (maybe just cause it was old), stopping was seriously involved, lots of pucker factor. This was in 1999 - 2001 that I winter drove that car. It would not accelerate quickly (it just spun), but that never got me stuck. I got passed plenty. Saw several cars that passed me wind up in a snow bank (plowed snow). But in Michigan they were quick to treat the roads, so maybe by the time I was on the way home, the roads were dry ... or at least much better.
I agree with the poster that said 4WD vehicles were the worst in the winter (not how he stated it) because the drivers drove like the King of the Road. Tried to go fast. And paid the price more than anyone else. 4WD pickups that is, not AWD cars.
Last winter about this time we had the IcePocalypse in Atlanta. I stayed at work until 4:30 pm. I was the last person in the building. Only because I have a short easy 3.5 mile drive home and a lot of work to do. I saw first hand the leading cause for all the mayhem on the roads in Atlanta. The #2 reason was because there was ice buildup and very slippery. But the #1 reason was because people were driving like morons ... right on each other's rear bumper. My ride home is about 2.5 miles on a 4 lane (2 each direction). On that 4 lane, it looked like a train, about a mile long. Everybody in one lane and I mean RIGHT ON each other's bumper. I was floored. If one person had slid, or done anything erratic, everybody behind that person would have piled into them. I took the wide open lane and cruised easily. Just baffling the ignorant way people drive in adverse conditions. I was in my FWD minivan. No problem.
After I got home, I pulled out the atv played!
There's no doubt AWD is advantageous. Especially in heavy snow. On ice, the advantage diminishes (but still there) and most everybody is in near the same predicament. On ice its all about managing acceleration (whether it be speeding up, slowing down, turning). Managing acceleration. Those accelerations that an accelerometer measures. The lower the acceleration the less likely that a loss of traction will be involved. My truck's 4WD's advantage is that it might get me unstuck if I were to slide off the road when it's slick. Not much else.
01-27-15, 01:03 PM
#67
Pole Position
I got a crash course on learning to drive in snow. My classroom was Detroit. And it was when I was working in design for Toyota. My tool, a 1983 Mazda RX-7. RWD (of course), 5 speed manual, riding on Maypops.
Want to accelerate? Get ready, lots of steering input involved. Want to brake? Hahaha, nice one. I had to make a reservation to do so. Traction control? In my hands, feet & brain.
The whole 5 years I lived in Michigan, I had NOT ONE crash. That RX-7 was the perfect car to train in. Every other car I drove in the winter was like driving a snow mobile ... like it was made to do it.
The primary thing I learned from "training" for snow driving in the RX-7 was that I had to leave a a drag strip of space between myself and the car I was following. Due to the Maypops, and rear axle brake bias (maybe just cause it was old), stopping was seriously involved, lots of pucker factor. This was in 1999 - 2001 that I winter drove that car. It would not accelerate quickly (it just spun), but that never got me stuck. I got passed plenty. Saw several cars that passed me wind up in a snow bank (plowed snow). But in Michigan they were quick to treat the roads, so maybe by the time I was on the way home, the roads were dry ... or at least much better.
I agree with the poster that said 4WD vehicles were the worst in the winter (not how he stated it) because the drivers drove like the King of the Road. Tried to go fast. And paid the price more than anyone else. 4WD pickups that is, not AWD cars.
Last winter about this time we had the IcePocalypse in Atlanta. I stayed at work until 4:30 pm. I was the last person in the building. Only because I have a short easy 3.5 mile drive home and a lot of work to do. I saw first hand the leading cause for all the mayhem on the roads in Atlanta. The #2 reason was because there was ice buildup and very slippery. But the #1 reason was because people were driving like morons ... right on each other's rear bumper. My ride home is about 2.5 miles on a 4 lane (2 each direction). On that 4 lane, it looked like a train, about a mile long. Everybody in one lane and I mean RIGHT ON each other's bumper. I was floored. If one person had slid, or done anything erratic, everybody behind that person would have piled into them. I took the wide open lane and cruised easily. Just baffling the ignorant way people drive in adverse conditions. I was in my FWD minivan. No problem.
After I got home, I pulled out the atv played!
There's no doubt AWD is advantageous. Especially in heavy snow. On ice, the advantage diminishes (but still there) and most everybody is in near the same predicament. On ice its all about managing acceleration (whether it be speeding up, slowing down, turning). Managing acceleration. Those accelerations that an accelerometer measures. The lower the acceleration the less likely that a loss of traction will be involved. My truck's 4WD's advantage is that it might get me unstuck if I were to slide off the road when it's slick. Not much else.
Want to accelerate? Get ready, lots of steering input involved. Want to brake? Hahaha, nice one. I had to make a reservation to do so. Traction control? In my hands, feet & brain.
The whole 5 years I lived in Michigan, I had NOT ONE crash. That RX-7 was the perfect car to train in. Every other car I drove in the winter was like driving a snow mobile ... like it was made to do it.
The primary thing I learned from "training" for snow driving in the RX-7 was that I had to leave a a drag strip of space between myself and the car I was following. Due to the Maypops, and rear axle brake bias (maybe just cause it was old), stopping was seriously involved, lots of pucker factor. This was in 1999 - 2001 that I winter drove that car. It would not accelerate quickly (it just spun), but that never got me stuck. I got passed plenty. Saw several cars that passed me wind up in a snow bank (plowed snow). But in Michigan they were quick to treat the roads, so maybe by the time I was on the way home, the roads were dry ... or at least much better.
I agree with the poster that said 4WD vehicles were the worst in the winter (not how he stated it) because the drivers drove like the King of the Road. Tried to go fast. And paid the price more than anyone else. 4WD pickups that is, not AWD cars.
Last winter about this time we had the IcePocalypse in Atlanta. I stayed at work until 4:30 pm. I was the last person in the building. Only because I have a short easy 3.5 mile drive home and a lot of work to do. I saw first hand the leading cause for all the mayhem on the roads in Atlanta. The #2 reason was because there was ice buildup and very slippery. But the #1 reason was because people were driving like morons ... right on each other's rear bumper. My ride home is about 2.5 miles on a 4 lane (2 each direction). On that 4 lane, it looked like a train, about a mile long. Everybody in one lane and I mean RIGHT ON each other's bumper. I was floored. If one person had slid, or done anything erratic, everybody behind that person would have piled into them. I took the wide open lane and cruised easily. Just baffling the ignorant way people drive in adverse conditions. I was in my FWD minivan. No problem.
After I got home, I pulled out the atv played!
There's no doubt AWD is advantageous. Especially in heavy snow. On ice, the advantage diminishes (but still there) and most everybody is in near the same predicament. On ice its all about managing acceleration (whether it be speeding up, slowing down, turning). Managing acceleration. Those accelerations that an accelerometer measures. The lower the acceleration the less likely that a loss of traction will be involved. My truck's 4WD's advantage is that it might get me unstuck if I were to slide off the road when it's slick. Not much else.
All wheel drive is much safer, front wheel drive too, but I've driven a lot worse than the RWD LS.
01-27-15, 02:27 PM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
Yes that's no going anywhere. Didn't even try. I have a Chevy Astro van that is by far the best vehicle I've driven in the snow in a long time. Thing is a tank. Hopefully I'll get my LS back sometime next week. Hahaha
01-28-15, 07:50 PM
#69
Pole Position
I have found in my 2010 RWD LS 460L that the best remedy for snow or ice is to have an ample supply of good scotch and wait it out. I go out into the garage and reassure her that daddy is here and she is safe.
Dennis
Dennis
Last edited by DJWLDW; 01-28-15 at 07:51 PM. Reason: spelling
01-29-15, 10:00 AM
#71
Pole Position
peteybabes
We are in HI for the winter and when we got here on the 13th of January Costco had and still has Lagavulin 16 year old on sale for $49.00. It was a good day.
Dennis
We are in HI for the winter and when we got here on the 13th of January Costco had and still has Lagavulin 16 year old on sale for $49.00. It was a good day.
Dennis
01-29-15, 10:35 AM
#72
Hawaii for the winter. That's tough, how will you manage?
Well, I have nothing to complain about. At least I'm not up in New England. Those folks must be suffering.
DJWLDW - Keep this on the downlow, the 2010 models are the BEST! Your wheels look 5 spoke, are they chrome? Mine are.
Well, I have nothing to complain about. At least I'm not up in New England. Those folks must be suffering.
DJWLDW - Keep this on the downlow, the 2010 models are the BEST! Your wheels look 5 spoke, are they chrome? Mine are.
01-29-15, 10:56 AM
#73
Lexus Test Driver
we are 2 miles from Costco...
01-29-15, 05:21 PM
#74
Pole Position
7milesout
No they are not chrome. They are the standard 19 inch touring alloy wheel. I like the looks of them, but I do wish they were chrome.
Dennis
No they are not chrome. They are the standard 19 inch touring alloy wheel. I like the looks of them, but I do wish they were chrome.
Dennis
02-02-15, 09:30 AM
#75
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ontario
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Funny how a good Scotch broadens the conversation! Side note - just took out a AWD mini with winters in about 8" of snow. Amazing thing! Went everywhere. Nice little emphasis on the rears to get a little fishtail going on corners.
For the 460 try the "peanut challenge". 2 pylons about 200 yds apart in a parking lot, now create a peanut shape track in the snow with the pylons top and bottom. Traction Control off, drive the whole course drifting about 20mph without losing the backend or driving straight! Then go home to whiskey and a warm fire.
For the 460 try the "peanut challenge". 2 pylons about 200 yds apart in a parking lot, now create a peanut shape track in the snow with the pylons top and bottom. Traction Control off, drive the whole course drifting about 20mph without losing the backend or driving straight! Then go home to whiskey and a warm fire.