DIMapb: Ok, let's go through this real slow:

1. I didn't "put Jeff down". I "put down" his repair method. I don't thave an opinion about Jeff. I've never met the man. You and Gary are the one's making this personal.
2. And yes, you know how I found the source because I said as much in a previous posting to Jeff, as follows: "I wouldn't have figured out what I know without your having led the way. "
3. I don't recall saying anything about "the integrity of the car", I can't really explain to you a statement I didn't make.

 

hey Gary: you're the only one throwing insults around. Why is this a personal issue with you?

Also, "he doesn't own the car" is still just as pointless a comeback as it was the first time you said it. How about returning the discussion to "Wind Noise Fix" and let's get off of "Do we or do we not love Jeff?"

 

I'm not upset with anyone.

I never said it wasn't a problem, so I don't know whom you are arguing with. All I'm trying to convey is that there is a better solution than the one you proposed. As for whether it's a design problem or not, why do you care? Are you planning on buy another LS-460? There's an easy solution (or two, if you count yours as a solution). You've fixed yours, so why not move on with your life? I don't see why this is such a big deal to you guys. You're acting like you've got a Pinto with an exploding gas tank. Get a grip.

Wrath? If I had any wrath, why would I direct it at Lexus? My car's fine now that I fixed it. Any "wrath" seems to be coming from a couple of you who can't carry on a technical discussion without turning it into a personal dispute and invoking name-calling. That's a real shame for you guys.

 

My we are going around in circles on this.

Yes., Jeff's solution works. I never said it didn't. Yes, Jeff is a wonderful guy for finding the source of the problem. He's a GOD. There is no greater man walking the face of this earth. For the record, again, I expressed my appreciation in writing in public to Jeff for discovering the source of the problem many posts back.

OK? Is that enough on that? Can we get back to the technical issue for which this thread is named?

The problem is that as an experienced mechanic and professional engineer I find his fix (NOT HIM) to be inferior to simply replacing the part, and I've already explained the five or so ways that it's inferior. Does anyone disagree on some valid basis with that point? Have any of you simply replaced the part and NOT solved the wind noise problem? Have any of you tried that at all?

It would sure be nice if somebody addressed THAT issue rather than sidetracking onto all this personal crap.

I'm just trying to alert the people who haven't yet addressed the problem that they have a superior alternative to Jeff's solution. Why is this such a problem?

 

Alan,

Peace!!

There was a problem and Lexus was refusing to do anything about it.

The parts were not available except in Japan.

Back on Jun 15 I recognized and pointed out that replacing the trim with a new part was a good solution.

This is part of want I said in Post #183.

"Well, what's the fix? It may be as simple as getting your dealer to replace the trim pieces with new parts that have the clips on them. I would think that would be a Lexus "approved" fix. It could be done quickly - no waiting time for the sealant to dry. One hang-up might be keeping the parts pipeline full. This sort of fix would at least make the cars equal to those that don't seem to have a problem. Bob321 tells us that these parts cost $18 each retail, so at that cost the dealer might be willing to replace the parts without much resistance, just to avoid an overnight loaner.

sidgriggs tried this in post #226. Here is what he said.

"After owning my 07 LS460 for over a year and hearing my wife complain about the wind noise (on the few occasions I let her ride in it), it no longer has wind noise. Got my dealer (Park Place Lexus, Plano, TX) to apply the jmcraney fix. They first replaced the triangles. Then after my wife said it still had wind noise, they followed the postings on this site. She and I just did a test drive--she no longer hears the noise!"

I know that Sid had his trim replaced with new pieces at the dealership. He told me and the readers of this discussion that he got an improvement by going back and having the sealant put under the trim.

You apparently had a different experience.

Thank you for telling us about it!!!

I wish you would leave me out of this - your opinion of me is none of my business.

And if you develop any new information I hope you will share it with us.

 

Alan,

If this is a simple case of replacing the triangular trim pieces, then why doesn't Lexus announce a TSIB on this "easy fix"? Surely, Lexus is by now very much aware that there is a wind noise problem. And, how do you explain the instances that some folks have tried this (replacing the trims), but the problem still exists?

 

Thank you SO MUCH for dragging this thread away from the name-callilng personality cult that has formed around Jeff.

Apparently your first question is a rhetorical one, which turned back into a proposition would be "If you're right, then Lexus would agree and they would issue a TSB." First of all, I don't know that they haven't or aren't about to. Secondly I don't find it productive to speculate about the reasoning or documentation processes being used internal to a large company. The fact that you aren't aware of such a TSB doesn't reflect either way on the validity of the fix.

Your second question is a good one, and so far the first time anyone on this thread has responded in a rational way to my original proposed fix.

As far as I know only one person says his dealer did that and his wife said it didn't work. That's a pretty long chain of hearsay.
The most obvious explanation is that the dealer didn't do it carefully enough (just like whoever assembled the car in the first place). It would be a much more interesting discussion if we could talk to the mechanic who attempted the replacement. Aside from him we have no direct participants in that particular failure so any comment is speculation.

By the way, if you've spent any time examining the trim part and the door and thinking about how the two interface you'll immediately notice that the black triangle is a fairly precise and rigid piece of plastic attempting to seal off two separate pieces of metal (one chromed, one black) that it bridges. So, in addition to inadequate installation pressure a further explanation for the propensity for leakage is tolerance buildup in the relative positions of those two pieces of metal. If the black piece is too "high" (laterally) relative to the chrome piece, it will never seal. Thus, one guy's car (say, mine) could be fixed by carefully replacing the part, while another guy's car (say, the guy with the noise-sensitive wife) could not, while a third guy's car would not have the problem in the first place.

 

Jeff -- I didn't bring you into this and I resent your implication that I did. I was being criticised for criticising you, when in fact I wasn't criticising anyone. It's your "defenders" who started name calling and turned this into a pissing contest. So please take that issue up with GaryB, etc., and leave me out of it.

As to sharing, if I don't take any more **** from people like GaryB, and the rest of you are willing to stay on the topic (wind noise and it's various fixes), I'll be happy to share information. But you're going to have to muzzle some of your groupies to make that happen. So don't shout "peace" at me. I didn't take the first shot, rather, I was its victim.

 

So, reading comprehension problems again.

I didn't say it was "a simple case of replacing the triangular trim pieces".

I said you should try replacing the piece first, BEFORE you resort to the silicone glue because doing so is easier, faster, cleaner etc. etc. etc.

 

Mr. Watkins, it's time to let go. This thread evidently doesn't satisfy your needs, so leave it for those it does. Everyone one is here for different reasons, yours just as noble as everyone else. I enjoy reading your posts and value your contributions a lot, and would like to keep it that way.

 

And how does this help us reduce wind noise?

 

Is this a soap opera or a learning tool? Dont all you have better things to do then insult each other, move on.

 

It's a soap tool. It's definitely not a learning opera.

Anybody have any comment on my theory about varying alignment of the two pieces underlying the plastic triangle? Anyone game enough to take his door apart and see why that variation might be? (Here's your chance to retrieve those little white clips) Who knows, maybe it's adjustable or at least bendable from behind. You might discover you can fix the problem from the inside with no new parts and no glue.

An alternative team activity would be to measure, say with a depth gauge or caliper, the different degree (if any) of misalignment. But of course to do that you'd have to unglue/unstick your triangle. I have a feeling I'm not going to get any takers on that one. Maybe you could take the position that hey, it's an $80K car, what's another $12 for some post-manufacturing R&D?

Although of course those of you with silicone glue holding your triangle on have nothing to lose but a little more silicone glue.

Then there's a third alternative: The one thing that determines how close the rear of the triangle sits against the door is the folded edge on the long (rear, vertical) side. That could easily be shaved in order to allow the plastic to sit closer thus allowing all the various pieces to fully attach. I suspect at worst its purpose is to provide lateral support to the black foam gasket behind it. More likely it's there to visually hide the black foam gasket, which otherwise is right there in front of you as you're opening the door (if you're looking forward) and wouldn't look very Lexus-like. Either way, I doubt that removing say 1/16" would hurt anything and that's probably enough for people with a worst case alignment to get a good bond all the way around the piece.

Knowing what I know now, if I had the problem again that's what I would do: buy a new piece, trim it a little and stick it on. That's basically guaranteed to work instantly.

 

Alan,

Thank you for your detailed suggestion. Your mechanic experience and professional engineering training are evident in the wisdom and details you provided. You should pass it on to Lexus - they need some help - and I am sure they would welcome your input.

I am beginning to understand why we have gotten so far apart on our ideas about this problem.

First let me say that when this started I viewed my solution as temporary with the expectation that Lexus would quickly come through with an "engineered solution" and I said that clearly several times in this discussion. It was really a free suggestion to Lexus and I provided some details to this discussion group so that they would see that Lexus would probably soon come to the rescue. Unlike you, I have no professional training. I like to call myself a "shade tree mechanic" and that might be stretch. I am not a challenge to your intellect. I am not saying this to elicit sympathy, I am just trying to distinguish my position from yours.

Now as to why we are so far apart.


On my car the trim doesn't ride on a "black metal" piece. The rear of my trim sits on a rubber gasket (part of the window gasket). You can see the gasket in the picture at Post #10 in this thread. So, maybe we are so far apart because your car is made different from mine. I did caution about the possibility of car differences early on in the discussion.

My car is a 2007 LS460. What model is yours?

I have looked at several cars in the past and my recollection is that they were all made like mine, but since I don't have them handy to look at again I guess it is possible that they were like yours and I just failed to note that. I did just look again at mine and the black part is indeed rubber.

This solution might work for those whose cars are like yours. For the ones with a car like mine: the aft part of the trim piece is saddled on the rubber gasket, so trimming the edge would not alter the fit - it would just increase the gap at the rear edge (an inconsequential result).

I am not challenging your suggestion. I am pointing out that your car is different from mine and requires a different solution.

As for your concern about my "groupies:" I think you are misinterpreting the exuberance other member of this discussion have expressed over finding a solution to their wind noise problem as something other than genuine relief from a problem that Lexus said could not be fixed. It is not about me, it is about this group, the moderators and the site and the contributions of everyone, including you. I have tried to be careful to just report what I know, to not disparage the car or Lexus and distinguish my opinions from fact.

And last, I want to apologize for my Internet-etiquette faux pas for using the Peace!!. I didn't realize that was shouting. Sorry!

peace

 

My car is an 08' and the assembly date is 4/08,the rear of my trim also has a rubber gasket that sits against the window