Hold / Emergency Brake - Ridiculous!!
12-30-11, 04:54 PM
#47
Lexus Champion
I never use my HOLD button, just my foot on my brake. IMHO its a useless feature just another button. I already have park gearshift and a electronic ebrake. Do I really need a brake button on the steering wheel? I guess call me oldschool for once lol
12-30-11, 06:18 PM
#48
Fortunately I'm not in that kind of traffic that I need that function, however I have used it occasionally. Actually I'm apprehensive when I use it because in stop and go traffic I'm so close behind the car in front of me that if the system let go I'd probably bump into the car before I could hit the foot brake.
12-31-11, 07:35 AM
#49
Since we have some new owner’s joining us it seems like a good time to review the “Hold” feature. It is a great convenience for reducing the leg fatigue from stop and go driving that many of us are experiencing on freeways these days. Basically the “Hold” relieves the driver from having to keep continuous pressure on the brake pedal when stopped in stop-and-go traffic and is especially useful for dealing with the "rollback" problem of stop-and-go driving on hills. The “Hold” feature can be enabled anytime the car's ignition is on, by operation of the “Hold” switch on the steering wheel. And it is canceled by operation of the same switch or when the ignition is turned off. Even though many of us don’t use this feature, it is easy for busy hands to enable it inadvertently, so, anyone who drives these cars needs to be briefed on this feature and what to do if the Parking Brake is engaged automatically.
You need to keep in mind that use of systems like the “Hold” feature is inherently risky. An analogy might be a loaded revolver that is cocked and left in a public place. If you know about guns then you would understand that someone unknowledgeable about guns could find it and easily kill or injure their self or someone else. I can think of lots of ways the “Hold” feature could be dangerous. For example, if it was in use and the driver stopped at a traffic signal and became unconscious then the car would be a booby trap for some good-Samaritan – just the process of extracting the driver to provide aide could launch that rocket ship into responders or traffic. Another example might be a distracted driver getting out of the car while the “Hold” is engaged. Or maybe getting your wallet out while the “Hold” is engaged.
The car is designed to default to the Parking-Brake-engaged to mitigate the risks that are presented by use of the hold feature.
When the car defaults to the Parking Brake the following message is displayed in the information center part of you dash display:
THE PARKING BRAKE HAS BEEN AUTOMATICALLY LOCKED
TO MOVE THE VEHICLE, RELEASE THE PARKING BRAKE
The parking brake is controlled by a lever near the driver’s right knee. Anyone who drives the car should be briefed on operation of the Parking Brake. Pressing it in will set the parking brake and lifting it up will release the parking brake. The only way to release the parking brake, other than manually (with a hand crank), is to lift up on that lever.
I think the real problem for most owners is in understanding what conditions, related to the “Hold” feature, automatically engage the parking brake.
As far as I can determine there are three conditions that will automatically engage the parking brake.
The first condition is opening the driver’s door while the “Hold” mode is engaged. If you do that it cancels the “Hold” mode and engages the parking brake. The only way the parking brake will be disengaged, even if the engine is turned off and re-started, is by operation of the brake lever. An example of this type of event would be driving near the golf course, with the “Hold” feature enable, when you see a wayward ball and you stop near it, open the door, reach down and pick it up. That will automatically engage the parking brake. Another example of this is opening the door or removing the seat belt before shifting to Park when parking. The next time you start the car the parking brake will be engaged.
A second condition is disconnecting the driver’s seat belt while the “Hold” mode is engaged. This will cause the same set of events as opening the driver’s door. Someone in the discussion above told us how they disconnected their seatbelt to remove their coat while stopped at a traffic signal and that engaged the parking brake. Another example might be stopping at the ATM and disconnecting your seatbelt to get your wallet out.
The third condition for automatic parking brake engagement is the “ dead man feature” which is caused by the “Hold” being engaged continuously for more than 3 minutes. What happens with this is a little different. Three minutes after the “Hold” engagement begins, it seems to be precisely timed, the parking brake is set and the attendant chime and message are displayed. In this case the “Hold” mode is not canceled and the hold engagement is not released. If you operate the parking brake lever in a manner to release the parking brake then the “Hold” mode remains on and engaged, the warning message goes away, the parking brake is released and the “Hold” operation continues for another three minutes, unless you release it by pressure to the accelerator or by cancelation via operation of the “Hold” switch or by putting the shift into Park, before the next dead man time out. So, if you have some reason to want to use the hold for a long time then just extend it each time it times-out by operating the parking brake release.
It seems to be well thought out and very logical. What is lacking is an explanation.
You need to keep in mind that use of systems like the “Hold” feature is inherently risky. An analogy might be a loaded revolver that is cocked and left in a public place. If you know about guns then you would understand that someone unknowledgeable about guns could find it and easily kill or injure their self or someone else. I can think of lots of ways the “Hold” feature could be dangerous. For example, if it was in use and the driver stopped at a traffic signal and became unconscious then the car would be a booby trap for some good-Samaritan – just the process of extracting the driver to provide aide could launch that rocket ship into responders or traffic. Another example might be a distracted driver getting out of the car while the “Hold” is engaged. Or maybe getting your wallet out while the “Hold” is engaged.
The car is designed to default to the Parking-Brake-engaged to mitigate the risks that are presented by use of the hold feature.
When the car defaults to the Parking Brake the following message is displayed in the information center part of you dash display:
THE PARKING BRAKE HAS BEEN AUTOMATICALLY LOCKED
TO MOVE THE VEHICLE, RELEASE THE PARKING BRAKE
The parking brake is controlled by a lever near the driver’s right knee. Anyone who drives the car should be briefed on operation of the Parking Brake. Pressing it in will set the parking brake and lifting it up will release the parking brake. The only way to release the parking brake, other than manually (with a hand crank), is to lift up on that lever.
I think the real problem for most owners is in understanding what conditions, related to the “Hold” feature, automatically engage the parking brake.
As far as I can determine there are three conditions that will automatically engage the parking brake.
The first condition is opening the driver’s door while the “Hold” mode is engaged. If you do that it cancels the “Hold” mode and engages the parking brake. The only way the parking brake will be disengaged, even if the engine is turned off and re-started, is by operation of the brake lever. An example of this type of event would be driving near the golf course, with the “Hold” feature enable, when you see a wayward ball and you stop near it, open the door, reach down and pick it up. That will automatically engage the parking brake. Another example of this is opening the door or removing the seat belt before shifting to Park when parking. The next time you start the car the parking brake will be engaged.
A second condition is disconnecting the driver’s seat belt while the “Hold” mode is engaged. This will cause the same set of events as opening the driver’s door. Someone in the discussion above told us how they disconnected their seatbelt to remove their coat while stopped at a traffic signal and that engaged the parking brake. Another example might be stopping at the ATM and disconnecting your seatbelt to get your wallet out.
The third condition for automatic parking brake engagement is the “ dead man feature” which is caused by the “Hold” being engaged continuously for more than 3 minutes. What happens with this is a little different. Three minutes after the “Hold” engagement begins, it seems to be precisely timed, the parking brake is set and the attendant chime and message are displayed. In this case the “Hold” mode is not canceled and the hold engagement is not released. If you operate the parking brake lever in a manner to release the parking brake then the “Hold” mode remains on and engaged, the warning message goes away, the parking brake is released and the “Hold” operation continues for another three minutes, unless you release it by pressure to the accelerator or by cancelation via operation of the “Hold” switch or by putting the shift into Park, before the next dead man time out. So, if you have some reason to want to use the hold for a long time then just extend it each time it times-out by operating the parking brake release.
It seems to be well thought out and very logical. What is lacking is an explanation.
Last edited by jmcraney; 01-01-12 at 01:34 PM. Reason: after thought
12-31-11, 08:15 AM
#50
I haven't used the brake hold feature in five years of driving the LS460 but it's good to read an excellent review of how it works, especially if accidentally engaged. Thanks!!!
12-31-11, 07:29 PM
#52
Lead Lap
JEFF; ANOTHER well-conceived and excellently thought-out post for those who need to know this. Kuddos, Buddy and a SUPERB 2012 to you for all you do (write) here.
Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA
Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA
01-02-12, 01:45 AM
#53
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL ! Why take the time to review and even read the owners manual when you have the pleasure of complaining (err, "reviewing") to Club Lexus after the fact??? - 
- 
- Just makes me laugh.
Y'all play nicely now, y'hear ? !
Best Wishes for a Happy New Year to All ! Mikey Lulejian on the Lake -
- - Just makes me laugh. Y'all play nicely now, y'hear ? !
Best Wishes for a Happy New Year to All ! Mikey Lulejian on the Lake -
02-20-17, 08:54 AM
#54
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unwanted acceration!!
Since we have some new owner’s joining us it seems like a good time to review the “Hold” feature. It is a great convenience for reducing the leg fatigue from stop and go driving that many of us are experiencing on freeways these days. Basically the “Hold” relieves the driver from having to keep continuous pressure on the brake pedal when stopped in stop-and-go traffic and is especially useful for dealing with the "rollback" problem of stop-and-go driving on hills. The “Hold” feature can be enabled anytime the car's ignition is on, by operation of the “Hold” switch on the steering wheel. And it is canceled by operation of the same switch or when the ignition is turned off. Even though many of us don’t use this feature, it is easy for busy hands to enable it inadvertently, so, anyone who drives these cars needs to be briefed on this feature and what to do if the Parking Brake is engaged automatically.
You need to keep in mind that use of systems like the “Hold” feature is inherently risky. An analogy might be a loaded revolver that is cocked and left in a public place. If you know about guns then you would understand that someone unknowledgeable about guns could find it and easily kill or injure their self or someone else. I can think of lots of ways the “Hold” feature could be dangerous. For example, if it was in use and the driver stopped at a traffic signal and became unconscious then the car would be a booby trap for some good-Samaritan – just the process of extracting the driver to provide aide could launch that rocket ship into responders or traffic. Another example might be a distracted driver getting out of the car while the “Hold” is engaged. Or maybe getting your wallet out while the “Hold” is engaged.
The car is designed to default to the Parking-Brake-engaged to mitigate the risks that are presented by use of the hold feature.
When the car defaults to the Parking Brake the following message is displayed in the information center part of you dash display:
[SIZE="6"]THE PARKING BRAKE HAS BEEN AUTOMATICALLY LOCKED[/SIZE]
[SIZE="6"]TO MOVE THE VEHICLE, RELEASE THE PARKING BRAKE[/SIZE]
The parking brake is controlled by a lever near the driver’s right knee. Anyone who drives the car should be briefed on operation of the Parking Brake. Pressing it in will set the parking brake and lifting it up will release the parking brake. The only way to release the parking brake, other than manually (with a hand crank), is to lift up on that lever.
I think the real problem for most owners is in understanding what conditions, related to the “Hold” feature, automatically engage the parking brake.
As far as I can determine there are three conditions that will automatically engage the parking brake.
The first condition is opening the driver’s door while the “Hold” mode is engaged. If you do that it cancels the “Hold” mode and engages the parking brake. The only way the parking brake will be disengaged, even if the engine is turned off and re-started, is by operation of the brake lever. An example of this type of event would be driving near the golf course, with the “Hold” feature enable, when you see a wayward ball and you stop near it, open the door, reach down and pick it up. That will automatically engage the parking brake. Another example of this is opening the door or removing the seat belt before shifting to Park when parking. The next time you start the car the parking brake will be engaged.
A second condition is disconnecting the driver’s seat belt while the “Hold” mode is engaged. This will cause the same set of events as opening the driver’s door. Someone in the discussion above told us how they disconnected their seatbelt to remove their coat while stopped at a traffic signal and that engaged the parking brake. Another example might be stopping at the ATM and disconnecting your seatbelt to get your wallet out.
The third condition for automatic parking brake engagement is the “ dead man feature” which is caused by the “Hold” being engaged continuously for more than 3 minutes. What happens with this is a little different. Three minutes after the “Hold” engagement begins, it seems to be precisely timed, the parking brake is set and the attendant chime and message are displayed. In this case the “Hold” mode is not canceled and the hold engagement is not released. If you operate the parking brake lever in a manner to release the parking brake then the “Hold” mode remains on and engaged, the warning message goes away, the parking brake is released and the “Hold” operation continues for another three minutes, unless you release it by pressure to the accelerator or by cancelation via operation of the “Hold” switch or by putting the shift into Park, before the next dead man time out. So, if you have some reason to want to use the hold for a long time then just extend it each time it times-out by operating the parking brake release.
It seems to be well thought out and very logical. What is lacking is an explanation.
You need to keep in mind that use of systems like the “Hold” feature is inherently risky. An analogy might be a loaded revolver that is cocked and left in a public place. If you know about guns then you would understand that someone unknowledgeable about guns could find it and easily kill or injure their self or someone else. I can think of lots of ways the “Hold” feature could be dangerous. For example, if it was in use and the driver stopped at a traffic signal and became unconscious then the car would be a booby trap for some good-Samaritan – just the process of extracting the driver to provide aide could launch that rocket ship into responders or traffic. Another example might be a distracted driver getting out of the car while the “Hold” is engaged. Or maybe getting your wallet out while the “Hold” is engaged.
The car is designed to default to the Parking-Brake-engaged to mitigate the risks that are presented by use of the hold feature.
When the car defaults to the Parking Brake the following message is displayed in the information center part of you dash display:
[SIZE="6"]THE PARKING BRAKE HAS BEEN AUTOMATICALLY LOCKED[/SIZE]
[SIZE="6"]TO MOVE THE VEHICLE, RELEASE THE PARKING BRAKE[/SIZE]
The parking brake is controlled by a lever near the driver’s right knee. Anyone who drives the car should be briefed on operation of the Parking Brake. Pressing it in will set the parking brake and lifting it up will release the parking brake. The only way to release the parking brake, other than manually (with a hand crank), is to lift up on that lever.
I think the real problem for most owners is in understanding what conditions, related to the “Hold” feature, automatically engage the parking brake.
As far as I can determine there are three conditions that will automatically engage the parking brake.
The first condition is opening the driver’s door while the “Hold” mode is engaged. If you do that it cancels the “Hold” mode and engages the parking brake. The only way the parking brake will be disengaged, even if the engine is turned off and re-started, is by operation of the brake lever. An example of this type of event would be driving near the golf course, with the “Hold” feature enable, when you see a wayward ball and you stop near it, open the door, reach down and pick it up. That will automatically engage the parking brake. Another example of this is opening the door or removing the seat belt before shifting to Park when parking. The next time you start the car the parking brake will be engaged.
A second condition is disconnecting the driver’s seat belt while the “Hold” mode is engaged. This will cause the same set of events as opening the driver’s door. Someone in the discussion above told us how they disconnected their seatbelt to remove their coat while stopped at a traffic signal and that engaged the parking brake. Another example might be stopping at the ATM and disconnecting your seatbelt to get your wallet out.
The third condition for automatic parking brake engagement is the “ dead man feature” which is caused by the “Hold” being engaged continuously for more than 3 minutes. What happens with this is a little different. Three minutes after the “Hold” engagement begins, it seems to be precisely timed, the parking brake is set and the attendant chime and message are displayed. In this case the “Hold” mode is not canceled and the hold engagement is not released. If you operate the parking brake lever in a manner to release the parking brake then the “Hold” mode remains on and engaged, the warning message goes away, the parking brake is released and the “Hold” operation continues for another three minutes, unless you release it by pressure to the accelerator or by cancelation via operation of the “Hold” switch or by putting the shift into Park, before the next dead man time out. So, if you have some reason to want to use the hold for a long time then just extend it each time it times-out by operating the parking brake release.
It seems to be well thought out and very logical. What is lacking is an explanation.
This is a CPO with 10K miles. The last attempt was to reset the transmission, which was explained to me so that he "intelligent" transmission could learn my driving habits. Three day so far without incident.
Any ideas anyone?
Last edited by jmcraney; 02-20-17 at 06:31 PM. Reason: I have taken the liberty to correct what seems like a typo in the 2nd sentence - changing "not" to "now."
02-20-17, 02:00 PM
#55
With or without this feature engaged, I have now experienced four unwanted accelerations. Each occurrence has happed as the car was braking to a stop for a traffic signal and just about at zero mph, the car surged. On one occurrence, I had to literally stand on the brake and put the car in neutral. The car has not been to the dealer twice and no clue as to what is happening. There were no codes to explain why!!
This is a CPO with 10K miles. The last attempt was to reset the transmission, which was explained to me so that he "intelligent" transmission could learn my driving habits. Three day so far without incident.
Any ideas anyone?
This is a CPO with 10K miles. The last attempt was to reset the transmission, which was explained to me so that he "intelligent" transmission could learn my driving habits. Three day so far without incident.
Any ideas anyone?
Personally experiencing one of these events usually causes a complete loss of confidence in the car, and I can understand that. But, since reports like this are rare and verification is even rarer, we have to also consider causes other than defects with the car.
I suggest that you do a visual examination of the brake pedal and accelerator pedal area and the driver's foot-well area. You should check to ensure that the floor mat is not somehow contributing to this. Check to ensure that there isn't some sort of foreign object that can roll around and contribute to this. Be sure to look under the driver's seat for something that can roll out.
While we have trouble realizing or admitting to pedal-application errors, that has to be considered too. If you are large person then you have to consider if you are applying the brake pedal in such a way that your large foot might span the gap between the brake pedal and accelerator. It might be a good idea to look or have someone else look at how you are positioning your feet on the pedals. Foot neuropathy is a condition that causes numbness in the feet and is common in diabetics and seniors and may account for some pedal-application errors - that needs to be considered too.
Bringing this to the attention of your Lexus dealer is definitely the correct thing to do. I don't think this has anything to do with the "intelligent transmission." We have seen reports in this forum, crediting "resetting" the transmission with fixing lots of things. I think that is "snake oil."
02-21-17, 06:55 AM
#56
I've had the surge happen to me a few times. I attribute it to the low end torque the car has and the transmission being lazy to shift to the lowest gear when coming to a stop. I don't find it particularly dangerous per se since the car isn't randomly trying to accelerate and the fact that I've solved the issue by putting slightly more pressure on the brake pedal when coming to a complete stop. I do find it odd that the issue doesn't occur in PWR or Snow modes. But it's not something that happens every day though, just once in a while.
04-13-18, 10:56 AM
#57
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: utah
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On my 2016 LS 460 L AWD the procedure is to remove the spare tire and pull out the little white plug on the front slightly right side and insert the hex head driver into the screw driver handle, press hard and rotate counter clockwise until it stops. I could not get mine to find the end point but it did release the auto parking brake so I could drive the car. The "BRAKE" light stays lit and another indicator says that there is a brake problem and to take it to a dealer. The auto parking break is now functioning but the two indicator lights remain on. This is not a process that you would want to handle while stock in traffic, mine happened sitting in my garage. I was wishing I had my old BMW 7 series back about then.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Neogenic
GS - 4th Gen (2013-2020)
8
03-10-14 02:08 PM
