zzzzdoc

I drove a 944 Turbo in 10" of snow once. Longest 15 miles of my life. But it never got stuck, and did make it into work in Boston.

You guys should check out the Top Gear episode that took cars to the North Pole.

bird1028

I'm driving an LS460 SWB this winter in Chicago with Blizzaks and the car is terrific with the combination of ECT set to "Snow" and the tires--as I expected. Interestingly, I had the opportunity to drive the LS in snow during the first snow-fall here as I brought it in for the wheel-swap and the handling was very slippery even with ECT on. After the swap the difference was huge.

I've been driving Blizzaks routinely for the past 7 or so years, first on rear-wheel drive Mercedes (1985 190 and 1988 E class) without traction control and even in those vehicles, the improvement in snow handling was dramatic. My current other vehicle is a 2005 C230 Benz and with Blizzaks and traction control--the car is great.

My point is that if you drive a rear-wheel drive vehicle in snow, you owe it to yourself for safety and driving comfort/peace of mind to use dedicated snow tires. Dry road handling is fine too.

Johnny

Thanks bird, you've helped me on the road to make the right decision...

syswei

My impression is that the Chicago area is pretty flat. Is that accurate? Have you had the opportunity to try a snowtire-shod LS on moderate hills? Especially starting from a standstill (say at a traffic light) on a moderate uphill?

Please share your experiences. Thanks.

Johnny

That was my initial reaction to Chicago, although it does ice up and get large dumps due to the lake effect, and when the snow comes, even small hills can be a challenge there.

bird1028

No hills to speak of here--I'm sure that uphill traction is not as good as on flat roads, but what vehicle/tire combination wouldn't show less traction uphill?

LexFather

Well the guy did state he has Blizzaks and has used them the past 7 years. Snow tires make all the difference.

syswei

That's right, any system is going to have less traction uphill than on flats.

BUT: If you one is looking at cornering and stopping ability on flats, than the front tires on a RWD car still contribute to grip. Whereas on an uphill straight, especially starting from a standstill, they basically don't contribute at all.

SO, hypothetically if a snow tire has 50% better grip than allseasons (and I have read it might be more like 25%), then in an uphill starting from standstill scenario, snows on a RWD might be 50% better than allseasons on an RWD.

...But allseasons on an AWD might be 100% better (100% more wheels with drive power/traction) than allseasons on a RWD. And that's the reason I'm now leaning toward an S550 4matic over an LS460L.

At least, that's the way I'm think of this. Would welcome hearing more realworld experiences (or theory) from people on this forum.

Helmar

I agree with you. I closely evaluated an S550 4matic before selecting my LS600hL.

To me, either would have been a good choice, but the Lexus had better reliability, and a touchscreen NAV instead of the COMAND system, and a few other minor (personal) advantages.

I've gone one step further than all season tires and mounted BLIZZAK snow tires. So far I've only been able to try the car in light snow, but it's performed magnificently.

HBH

Johnny

The reason why AWD provides more traction - btw, traction is dependent on friction (i.e. heat), which rises when more weight is applied, but drops when more power is applied - is because of the reduced power to the wheels, and more efficient applied contact with the rolling surface. For example, 300 horses directed to two wheels equals 150 each, but divided by four wheels means that the 75 horses are less likely to break free. Controlling the wheel slip increases the efficiency of the system by redirecting the motive force to the wheels with the least amount.

Nextourer

Given the same amount of throttle that is. We could reduce output or let the TRAC do it but I'd like to add to what you said too.

In addition, AWD allows the other two wheels to find grip. In a car as long as the LS, there may be a difference in road surface (e.g. ice in the back and packed snow in the front).

Gojirra99

VIDEO : http://www.carview.co.jp/magazine/re...ichelin_x-ice/

Does anyone know what they're saying ?

That LS looks good to me

Johnny

There seems to be a shortage of the X-Ice in 18s. The 19s are available though. Tirerack lists the 18s but they're not in stock. Blizzaks and Dunlop winters look like they're the only options for the time being as far as I'm concerned anyway. Unless I get the 19", but there was a lot of debate a while back about the fitment. Any feedback on this?

I'm going to price the Canadian Costco availabilities tomorrow.

PatsSoxfan

Hello Barnaby! I have been following your trials and tribulations about the snow problem. I will let you know how I make out here in the snowy Midwest with my new machine. I am picking up my new LS later today. The dealer has installed a set of Blizzaks on mine. However, as I stated on my first thread, I was pleasantly surprised how well it did without snow tires when I test drove it for a few minutes priort to it being prepped the other day. It was on a street that was quite slippery but it was by no means deep snow. It was more of a packed snow and ice street. I imagine that it would be quite difficult to drive without snow tires if there are more than a few inches of snow on the ground.

oldcajun

There was an interesting test run by one of the car magazines a few years ago relative to the value of snow tires, all season tires, and car drive configuration. They tested 3 cars: front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, and all wheel drive all in snow concitions. With the all season tires, the cars performed as expected with the all wheel drive best and the rear wheel drive worst. When they put the winter tires on the rear wheel drive car, it had better traction than the other 2 with their all season tires. With all the cars shod with winter tires, the ranking returned to where it started, but with all much improved. Their conclusion was that tires made a bigger difference than drive configuration in snowy conditions.
Steve