307k miles on my 2004. Former owner followed the Lexus recommendations, which means tranny fluid was never touched. Most of those miles were highway. He also towed an ATV occasionally for a couple of years. Not great I know. I knew I would be playing with fire by touching the transmission but after extensive reading I decided to do a pan drop and refill (approx. 4 qts) with filter screen change. The thinking is that if there is a failure soon after, the tranny was on it's way out anyway and the service just exposed it quicker. I dropped the pan and followed the factory refill procedure with the car level and the tranny temp just right when removing the overflow bolt.
There were a few small bits of metal but not much in the way of shavings on the magnets. The fluid was very dark, almost black, but no burnt smell at all. I installed a new OEM screen/filter, filter o-ring and gasket, but my one variable which I wish I hadn't done is refill with 4 qts of Valvoline Maxlife ATF. That debate is for a whole different thread, but I have not found a single report of failure due to using the Maxlife. However, I wonder with my high miles if the different composition of the fluid and maybe stronger detergents contributed to my problem. Within a week of the change and a hundred miles later, the torque converter began to shudder when lightly accelerating in all gears. I can use the manual shift without shudder. No problems with moderate or heavy acceleration. I did another fluid change and added back 4 qts of Toyota WS but I know there is still some Maxlife mixed in there. I also dropped the pan again to check that the o-ring on the filter was seated properly which it was. I'm not disappointed that the A761E tranny would be failing at over 300k, but I wonder how long it may have gone if I left it alone. From more research, I think the best guess is that the detergents in the new fluid loosened some debris which is stuck somewhere in the valve body. One shop wanted to drop the whole tranny to investigate, another wants to remove and clean the valve body, and a third says to keep driving to see if the debris gets dislodged (if in fact that is the problem).
I also bought a 2 oz. tube of Lubeguard Shudder fix to diagnose if the problem was fluid related. Probably should have used a funnel but tried to squeeze the tube sideways into the fill opening and lost half the tube on the ground. So I can't say whether 1oz of fluid did anything. I've now put on almost 800 miles and the problem isn't worse, and may be slightly better.
Since I have nothing to lose I may just do a few more drain and fills with Toyota WS. I was prepared for the possibility of problems after doing this, and was hopefully optimistic I would somehow extend it's life with the least invasive drain and fills, but I would say if I could do it over, I would not touch the tranny ever if it had over 150k miles with an unknown history, + or - minus depending on how the miles were added.
That fluid had long expired, not even ATF anymore. I have never liked Maxlife in older transmissions it is too thin (my guess) and makes the tranny shift worse. Others rave about it no idea why. Now I use Amsoil OE Multi-Vehicle it plays nice in my Lexus and older Toyota's I own. Don't use Amsoil signature it is like Maxlife too thin (again a guess) doesn't seem compatible.
LeX2K, are you thinking MaxLife is too thin because its a synthetic whereas WS is not? I'm sure Amsoil is awesome stuff. You could probably get 500k+ miles with our Toyota tranny doing regular fluid changes. I still think with my miles I'd be better off feeding it what it's used to. I would love to believe my problem is related to the fluid level. I had the car as level as I could get it even with the car raised. I can't say I was 100% level, but I did use a level on the hood, and also tried measuring fenders to ground too. If someone did this on the driveway, I can see the slope messing things up. For the fluid level I used the Scangauge II and opened the overflow when temp reached 115 degrees, let the excess flow and when it starting trickling out in spurts, I closed it up. The second time I did this, I let it trickle a little longer, it just kept spurting now and then. I've seen some say when the flow begins to slow close it up, others let it trickle until nothing is left and then add 1/4 quart. I've seen posts that claim it needs to be near perfect, others have said that the tranny is forgiving on the fluid level. I will add that the shudder doesn't occur until the fluid is warm which made me think it could be fluid level related, but in other cars it is common for the shudder to occur at temp and is not caused by over or under fill.
What's happening to you is normal/typical with what you did, I would keep changing fluid out with new WS repeatedly until you have replaced far more fluid since what you did only replaced a very small portion. I am mostly indifferent on maxlife since in Toyota trans it's a answer seeking a problem IMO, the trans are well designed so the factory fluid works well.
The fact it's occurring at temp means you likely are dealing with severely sheared fluid
LeX2K, are you thinking MaxLife is too thin because its a synthetic whereas WS is not?
No I think the viscosity is simply too low. Amsoil Signature is full synthetic (all their fluids are) but it also seems too thin, it works great in new transmissions for older A series transmissions especially not so much.
As you know fluid volume changes with temperature so if you get issues when the tranny is warm that means the fluid level is wrong, the fluid became too thin, or unfortunately could mean the problem is strictly mechanical and no fluid will change that.
I don’t want to beat the MaxLife debate any further into the ground BUT a couple things to consider-
Who put the words “FULL SYNTHETIC” on the Maxlife label? The engineers or the marketing dept. Has this been scrutinized by the NIST?
These 2 words, and the price, seem to be the drawing power causing many to buy the product. The math is pretty simple. Do you really think $18 buys a GALLON of quality synthetic fluid?!? Read the label from an objective perspective. Recommended, most, suitable, etc are not terms I’m looking for. Also, let’s assume it is “full synthetic” as many users claim runs cooler so it must be BETTER for the trans. We all know Toyota WS and the A761 are both rather susceptible to temp fluctuations which affect fluid volume and yes ML and WS will likely act differently (re volume) at temp. Of course the temp is primarily regulated by the trans cooler but do we want a fluid that will likely act very differently re volume/temp in a trans where volume is so critical?
Amsoil produces Signature Series in Multi-vehicle for T-IV’01-‘03) and Fuel-Efficient that covers WS(‘04-06). I’m not a supporter of multiple spec transmission fluids for Toyota & Lexus as the coefficient of friction has to be exacting to produce quality shifts. On my ‘04 I run synthetic Idemitsu TLS-LV which is just for WS applications. It causes no shifting issues as it’s pure WS and a quality synthesis upgrade over Toyota WS. It’s both cheaper & a better product. For the OP continue to flush the old WS out and use Toyota WS or Idemitsu. It takes time to let the new detergent package clean the transmission so be patient; drain and refill(use paper clip or Techstream to get the correct fluid level) and drive for a week and rinse, repeat until all the fluid is clean. Be super gentle shifting as the varnish and dirt you are cleaning out need to be removed gently.
I can't say where to get it but I can also endorse Idmitsu as really good and what I use in my Toyota's. I bought 5 cases, 3TIV, 2WS for $2.10 a quart since my local store was discontinuing it
