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There has been an idea rolling around in my head for a few months now, and I wanted to run it by the community to see if this makes sense to anyone else.
I'm in my early twenties, recently graduated college, and have started working full time. My current daily driver (a last-gen Buick Park Avenue) has served its purpose well, but being that it is in near perfect working order, I find it really difficult to justify replacing at this point. With that in mind, I've been thinking about installing winter tires and supplementing it with a nice summer car to get the best of both worlds. This would carry the obvious advantage of always having a vehicle well-equipped for its season: a fancier RWD with the ever-important cooled seats when it's warm, and a FWD with winter tires for optimal performance/safety in the snow and ice.
As good as this sounds on paper, there would be the obvious disadvantages of storage and maintenance (as well as registration and insurance) for two vehicles. Additionally, based on real-world gas mileage figures seen on Fuelly, (and sample gas prices from GasBuddy for 91 octane) my fuel costs would be approximately 31% higher. I'm also trying to stay within a budget of around 5 to 7 thousand on the upfront purchase, which means that (according to Kelley Blue's evaluations on used LS 430s with 100-175k miles) 2001-2003s should be relatively attainable. I'd prefer a 2004, (or maybe even a 2005) for the improved styling and availability of stock Bluetooth, but the pricing evaluation climbs pretty high after 04.
Another option considered (and even test-driven) was a first-generation Hyundai Genesis, but the Kelley Blue value puts anything newer than a 2009 or 2010 (in "Very good" condition with 150k miles) out of my price range. While expensive, these carry the advantage of lower fuel costs (~4% more than my current situation, approximately) and more modern equipment, at the expense of a bit of trunk space and the pizazz of the higher-end car (I'll obviously withhold final judgment until I've actually test-driven an LS 430). There's also the consideration of maintenance costs, which I'd still expect to be (at least slightly) higher on the $60k MSRP LS than on the Hyundai or Buick.
With all of that in mind, is this objectively worth it? Or would it be better to wait a couple of years and completely upgrade to something more practical?
I am fairly new to the LS family, I purchased an 05 about 3 months ago as a summer driver. I have kept my 4runner for winter. Build quality on the LS is superb. I previously had a 2001 750 IL, and while fun to drive, maintenance was a nightmare..... Mine has 120K on it, but you would think it was way less by how the fit/finish has held up. I LOVE driving it. It is very smooth and quiet, with plenty of power under the pedal. On the highway, I average 24-26 mpg. Take your time and find a nice one, I paid $8500 for mine, and you will enjoy it. I can't berate a Genesis, as I have never driven a Hyundai, but I can't imagine it being at the level of the Lexus LS430. Good luck!
As someone who lives basically in a climate that is summer all year round, it is a great car in the heat with an ice cold AC which honestly is a life saver!
Comfortable and great to go places, I do not feel that tired when getting out of this car as it has great comfort but the only thing I would add is just ensure you got good tires and all your fluids are up to par.
Other than that, it is a great car but ventilated seats than cooled seats in my '02. 430.
If it were me, I would not get a 2nd car....that is a luxury and when you really get down to it, a waste of money. Now with that being said, I have a BMW garage queen and put about 1,xxx miles on it last year. How ****** stupid can a person be (me?)? I have full coverage on the car, keep saying I will drive it more, but end up traveling for work.
Since you are in your 20's, my advice is no different than if you were my son (my son is 4 lol). First, you want to max out your 401k. The limit is $18,500. Next, max out a ROTH IRA as long as you are not phased out. Once you have done these two things, start saving like there's no tomorrow. It's extremely difficult to make up for time.
Your financial situation may be different, I'm just advising the above if you are typical and average. My wife's cousin has a trust fund, he is 24, and he inherited 2 condos on Lake Shore Drive. The above does not apply to him. But for the rest of us, once we accept the notion of savings, it is much easier.
When I was in my 20's I insisted on a RWD luxury car, so it was a Volvo 264. Person sold it to me for $2,000, with blown head gaskets, so I got burned. Spent $800 for a rebuilt motor/tranny and drove it 8 yrs. Point is, I put the cart before the horse and maybe I found a way out, but did get burned...good luck!
I would probably stay clear of purchasing a second car at this point unless you can afford it. I am 28 and have owned two vehicles for a while. One is a lease Jetta (for now), second is my recently purchased 04 LS430 ML. As I drive to work about 44 miles round trip, the Lexus is a must for now until I make up my mind about the Jetta. Based on all of the upgrades I am doing to it, it seems I will be keeping her. Great little car. The sad part is, my 14 year old LS is much nicer. Toss your options around. I agree with John on the savings part, I also need to heed his advise as my company does not offer 401k.
OP, why do you want to own LS430, as opposed to... lets say a Corolla? You obviously has a budget in mind, since you have research the gas mileage and price of other car.
If you are looking for an older RWD v8 cruiser, this is the one. Just remember all old cars come with old parts that may need to be replaced. Even as reliable as LS is, things still need to be fixed. If you are not handy and willing to DIY, this can be a more expensive venture as oppose to owning other car.
Not trying to scare you here, but I think that is the reality owning LS (or any luxury older car).
As good as Hyundai Genesis or other large sedans, if we are looking at the same price range, I think LS is the best bang for the buck in term of price and reliability. I did a pretty extensive research before buying mine a few weeks ago.
EDIT: another vote for do not buy a second car, and save your money. Johnhav430 has a great advice.
Yes, an LS 430 would be a good summer car, but....
I would strongly advise against having 2 older vehicles that require maintenance given your station in life. There will be plenty of time for that later.
The 3.8 in your Buick is a fabulous motor, but some other aspects of the car are prone to problems, especially with advanced age. While I don't know much about the Genesis, you are on the right track in thinking in terms of a single upgraded vehicle. Good luck!
Are you a 'car guy', OP? As in, do you love cars and enjoy them as a passion and hobby? And can you afford it? If you aren't/can't then I wouldn't add a second car - it makes no logical sense no matter how you cut it. But if you have cars in your blood and want to have fun then it may be something to consider. For 5-7k you can find some really fun stuff as a true summer cruiser like a Miata or Z3/4 but the LS430 is a great deal of fun too, just in a different way. If you do buy something, make sure you get a good pre-purchase inspection since worn brakes, t-belt, spark plugs and worn suspension parts can add up fast.
I would suggest saving as much money as you feel comfortable in order to buy a car AFTER the Buick goes south. There is not that much difference between FWD and RWD cars in the winter to justify a second unit with it's inherent costs of increased fuel costs, insurance, and repair.
From an old fart: save as much and as early as you can and you'll have an awesome retirement. It'll get here more quickly than you ever thought...
I drove GM cars for 40 years. my LS is my first non GM car. comfort of a Cadillac / reliability of a Camry. drive the LS for the summer and you will not want back in the Buick again ever. you do not have to burn premium gas if you don't want to. many here on this forum run regular. advantage of '03 year is transmission does not have lifetime transmission fluid and a dip stick to check level and condition. word of warning is cooled seats are really not very cool. I say go for it, you will not be sorry if you find a good 03 LS 430.
Honestly the Genesis can't be compared to the LS430, especially the early models that you're looking at. Also, the Genesis was never meant to compete with the LS - it was more aimed at the GS.. but missed it's mark. I'm not saying the Genesis is a bad car, I'm just saying that it's not on the same level as the LS, but what do you expect when the Genesis cost $20,000 less (new) than the LS did (new).
The interior material qualities for one... the Genesis has a lot of that cheap, 'tackle box' plastic. The leather is thinner and nowhere near as durable as Lexus leather from the early 2000s. After looking at quite a few Genesis ads, the interiors seem to be in merely as good of shape - at best - or worse condition than LS430s... keeping in mind that they're all anywhere from 3 to 8 years newer than the LS. The carpeting in the LS is so thick, plush, and durable.
You said that most/all Genesis models newer than 2009 or 2010 puts them out of your price range... so that gives you literally one or two model years to look at. A quick search on AutoTrader shows only two used Genesis for sale in the entire country with the V8 engine for $8,000 or less... one for $5,000 with 185k miles, one for $5,500 with 196k miles. We all know you can trust an LS to drive across the country with 200k, 300k, even 400k miles without batting an eye... but I wouldn't trust a Hyundai with that many miles. The only other car I found nationwide near your price range is even just barely out of it at $7,500, and it also has 180k miles on it. If you're talking about getting the V6 Genesis because that's more in your price range, that's another reason it's not a good comparison with the LS.
Even a search for V6 Genesis models for $7,000 or less with less than 150k miles only turns up four listings - three of them are priced between $6,500 and $7,000 and have between 142k-150k miles... and one of them (for $4,000) has unrepaired accident damage lol! Only one of them has a somewhat reasonable 125k miles and is at the very top end of the budget at $6,800.
Compare that to another nationwide AutoTrader search for 2001-2006 LS430s with less than 150k miles and less than $7,000 and that returns 46 matches! Now realistically, you could very well increase your 'maximum' amount of allowable miles when looking for an LS to even 200k miles and not have to even think about reliability, and you'd have 99 matches to choose from. But I digress...
On the topic of fuel cost... my research on Fuelly shows that 2009-2010 Genesis owners are averaging about 20-21 mpg while 2001-2006 LS430 owners are averaging 19-21 mpg. It appears the difference in actual fuel economy is negligible at best. You're suggesting that you'd be spending roughly 27% more money on fuel for premium in an LS vs regular in a Genesis? --based off the ~$.20-$.25/gal premium for... premium fuel vs regular? EPA fuel economy estimates for the LS430 are 1 mpg higher than V8 Genesis, and the same as the V6 in city driving; and 2 mpg lower in the LS vs the Genesis, and the same 25 mpg in both cars with V8s for highway driving. You're talking about a $100-200/yr difference between the V6 Genesis vs the LS, and more like a $50-$100 difference between the V8 Genesis and LS.
Now as I typed and did the math for the above paragraph, I assumed that both the V6 and V8 Genesis both took regular gas. Turns out the V8 really should be ran on premium. After checking Genesis forums, some owners run regular, some run premium even though the owners manual says that premium is required. The consensus among owners is that the V8 can run on regular, but you're going to lose mpgs and engine power/performance when you do, and the small price increase when fueling with premium gas is made up by the better fuel economy... hence my strikethrough in that last sentence.
Now, I have some information regarding maintenance that will likely surprise you, and some that probably won't. I'll break these down into two categories:
Likelihood of needing unscheduled service: The not surprising... the LS will be all but guaranteed to last longer overall and give you less trouble over the life of the vehicle. The engines and transmissions in these cars will easily bring them into the 400k-500k mile range when properly and regularly maintained. Just the other day, someone posted a picture of a 2001 LS430 with 679k miles that was still running strong. This is not an outlier either. The Genesis does not have this proven track record.
As for mechanical problems outside of engine and transmission, you're much less likely to have a problem with an LS. Check out data from CarComplaints.com on this matter. I've been using this website for over 10 years when researching used vehicles for myself as well as friends and family. The information is invaluable when trying to determine which models and model years are more problematic than others. Their information is sourced from owners visiting the site and reporting, as well as from NHTSA complaints and reports from auto repair shops. They organize the information with a nice bar graph showing which model years had more reported problems than others.
Then you can click on each year and see the breakdown of the reported problem categories.
Then you can click on each category and read about problem groups within that category. You can go even further by clicking on each individual problem and see the most common fixes for each problem, the average mileage of the problems in that group, typical repair cost, and number of associated reported problems. Further down that page, you can read about each individual problem and see details like what trim level/engine/transmission had the problem, mileage and date it occurred, repair cost, and sometimes even updates about it.
Now, take another look above at how many reported problems the Genesis has. Doesn't look that bad, right? Check out the LS430 on CarComplaints.com...
The only year that has any data to show is the 2001 MY LS which has a total of 63 reported problems compared to 279 reported problems for the 2009 Genesis. This seems all fine and dandy, but everything is relative - of course you're much more likely to have a larger total number of problems reported on a car that outsold another car 3-1... so, how many 2001 LS430s were sold and how many 2009 Genesis's were sold? Hyundai sold 21,889 Genesis models in 2009 and Lexus sold 31,110. So even though Lexus sold a little over 9,200 more LS models than Hyundai sold Genesis models, they have a much higher component failure rate... 4.5 times the failure rate than that of an LS! Now, are you ready for the shocker? You said "There's also the consideration of maintenance costs, which I'd still expect to be (at least slightly) higher on the $60k MSRP LS than on the Hyundai or Buick."
Cost for replacement components: After poking around on my favorite OEM parts website Parts.com... here's a couple of prices for some components that are commonly replaced as well as some that are less commonly replaced. The price for the Genesis is listed first and the price for the LS is listed in parenthesis:
Front brake pads - $94.31 ($53.14)
Front brake rotor - $113.43 ($74.00)
Front brake caliper - $247.97 ($278.30)
Alternator - $330.44 ($301.78)
Front hub assembly - $328.55 ($305.77)
Starter - $279.50 ($167.84)
Serpentine belt tensioner - $177.17 ($64.61)
Water pump - $204.11 ($101.28)
Outer tie rod - $73.01 ($70.89)
Ok I think I've proved my point... but just for good measure... a power steering pump for the Genesis would cost $408.11 vs $446.95 on the LS. Yes, there are some components that are more expensive on an LS, like some electronic components/sensors. However, the power steering pump on an LS is belt driven directly by the engine to create hydraulic pressure. Conversely the power steering on a Genesis is electric, so it has a dedicated electric motor that is powered by the car's electrical system to create the same hydraulic pressure. That motor ever dies on you? $1,284.69
For what it's worth, in the last 3+ years and 40k miles that I've owned my 2004 LS, the amount of money that I've spent on scheduled regular maintenance... timing belt, water pump, pulleys, tensioner, drive belt, front brakes, suspension bushings... is about $1,300-$1,400 - $1000 of which was just the timing belt/WP/tensioner/idler - (and that's with me buying genuine Toyota parts online and having all labor done at my local Lexus dealership). The total amount I've spent on unscheduled repairs - items that do wear out on every car at some point (tie rods, a wheel bearing) is about $500.
To wrap this up, I do want to say that you should drive an LS before thinking about this a whole lot more. The LS drives like no other car out there, but it's not for everyone. If you've read any of the professional reviews, you know that some of the praise the LS gets from some people is also a source of displeasure voiced by others. It's drive is very smooth, comfortable, quiet, isolated, and refined. Naturally, when you have a car that's all these things, it also doesn't lend itself a "sporty" feel since it doesn't give a whole lot of feedback to the driver through the steering wheel. It has very soft suspension which results in a fair amount of body roll, nose dive under braking, and squatting under hard acceleration. The remedy and ultimate compromise for both of these "symptoms" in my opinion is the "Euro Tuned Sport Suspension". I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record to some here, but the sport suspension has all of the good characteristics of the stock suspension - soft, compliant, and smooth ride - while reducing the negative characteristics like body roll/dive/squat. You also get larger wheels and tires with the sport suspension which allow a little more feedback to come through the steering wheel so you feel more 'connected' to the road. It all depends on what you like as a driver and what you're expecting out of a car. If you're looking for a summer cruiser that you'll be taking on hours-long road trips and want the miles to fly (or float) by the LS might be for you. If you're looking for a 'summer fun' car that you can shove down some winding country roads by the scruff of it's neck, the LS is likely not for you (unless you find a sport suspension model... then mayyyybe). Then again, if you're looking for something that you can drive on the ragged edge like I just described, the Genesis isn't going to be much better. The V6 only weighs about 250lbs less than the LS, the V8 weighs the same, and has almost identical exterior dimensions. There's no getting around the fact that these are biiig cars.
Sorry, one more thing... what made you think of getting an LS430 anyway?
drive the LS for the summer and you will not want back in the Buick again ever.
THIS. Ohhhh very much this. The LS has ruined me from owning just about any other car and I really don't look forward to the day that I have to end up buying something else (like god forbid someone crashes into my car and totals it)
Originally Posted by JffGRY706
word of warning is cooled seats are really not very cool. I say go for it, you will not be sorry if you find a good 03 LS 430.
Debateable. For one, it depends on how restricted the filters are for the seat coolers. A nasty, clogged filter will not move much air through the seat. For two, kind of gross but it depends on how sweaty you are and how many layers or how thick the clothes you're wearing is. I was unimpressed with my cooled seats at first... I mean I could feel them, but didn't think it was of much help. I changed my view after the first time I used them after being outside in the summer heat for a little while and had even just a little bit of sweat in my t-shirt. My slightly wet/sticky back immediately felt the cool air blowing through the seatback waaaaay more than when I first tried them. It was glorious lol
The star bushing in every Kia/Hyundai fails inside of the steering gear-the gearbox has to come out. This is a well known issue across most shops that are any decent/car guys who work at shops like myself. You will find the Genesis a mediocre copy of the LS. If you are crazy sensitive about vehicles like Mbodall and myself are, then you WILL notice a HUGE difference in the quality. Even that the LS is older, a good example of one that has been maintained overshadows the Genesis in every way.
Air is not going to be blown thru the perforations when 200 lbs of near naked butt is blocking the holes! Block the holes and no air will come thru them. However, if you want to prove this just throw a towel on the seat and you can then feel some cool air that gets thru the towel. Another way to prove that you have air flowing is to just put you hand down on the seat in front of your crotch were there is nothing blocking the perforations.
Reason seems to say that if you compress or fill the upper layer of foam on the seat (with sweat, dirt, body oils, etc), that the foam will prevent any cool air from being emitted thru the perforations.
06-26-18, 07:26 PM
Is the LS 430 a good summer driver?
