430 to 460
09-03-17, 02:04 PM
#16
Been pokin around the 460 site and hear all the stories of control arms, door panels, direct injection and U have to run premium. I got my 430 to be Cheap to Keep and a RWD V8. I will look into the 013 and up but no hurry.
09-04-17, 01:03 PM
#17
Tx for the feedback on the 2013 and up. Of course have to deal with you love it or hate it grille. I've driven a 2010. Nice car but not the same level of finish as the 430.
09-04-17, 03:18 PM
#19
09-04-17, 03:46 PM
#20
looking at the dashboard lights site (formerly the long term reliability index) the 460's are just as good as our 430's and with prices dropping I would not be afraid to replace my 430 with as much 460 as I could afford. they made a ton of '07 460's and they have held up very well. there are over 35,000 in the USA market, far more than any other year model and they are cheap. the 08 and 09 years are not as strong, but again they are much better than your average car. I would not want a car with air shocks or navigation but nothing else scares me. again I no nothing about the 460, but the 460L would interest me if I had to get another car tomorrow.
09-05-17, 07:55 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
even though I don't like the looks from the side or top (who looks at their car from above, right?), I'm now curious about the LS500. The 430 lasts so long, it would be possible to skip the 4th gen imho and go to the 5th. Although it's not likely that 10 yrs. from now, a LS500 will go for $15k. Meaning, on Sept. 5, 2017, will your 3rd gen last 10 more years (there are 1995-1999 Maximas driving around today like there's no tomorrow, so why wouldn't a LS430 go that many years)....if so, potentially skip the 4th gen is my thinking...
p.s. more thoughts, is the LS460 worth its sticker price? imho NO. Is the LS500 worth its sticker price? Likely yes. In other words, value is increasing on the new LS, even though the price is higher...
p.s. more thoughts, is the LS460 worth its sticker price? imho NO. Is the LS500 worth its sticker price? Likely yes. In other words, value is increasing on the new LS, even though the price is higher...
09-05-17, 10:07 AM
#22
Pole Position
I don't see the goodness of the LS500. I hate the interior front dash. No wood at all. I hate the guitar string stripes. No wood on the steering wheel. Small drivers screen with weird horn-looking ***** on top. The doors and backseat look great, but the entire front dash looks more Avalon than LS to me. And no V8? Twin-turbo V6? No thanks.
Lexus needs to go back to the 430 and see what made it the top of it's class instead of expanding on the 460, which is basically a 2nd tier luxury car now.
Lexus needs to go back to the 430 and see what made it the top of it's class instead of expanding on the 460, which is basically a 2nd tier luxury car now.
09-07-17, 05:16 PM
#23
Racer
Here's what I liked about the 460 over the 430.
1. Looks. 460 is a beautiful design.
2. Upgraded entertainment with streaming.
Here's what I hated about my 2010 460L compared to any of the three 430s I have owned.
1. Noise. Just about every aspect when it came to sound. The 460 engine had a terrible ticking from the direct injection. You had to drown it out with the radio. Unfortunately, I listen to a lot of sports radio, and at stoplights and low speed, the ticking was very audible. Road noise and wind noise was also more pronounced. Numerous creaks and rattles that were not present in the 430.
2. Ride. The 460s ride is harsher than the 430s, especially with the larger wheels. It handled better, but you don't usually ask a fat girl to dance on her toes. Not the purpose of the car. Far better option that the 460 if that is your goal.
3. Build Quality. While the design of the 460s interior is updated, the leather felt thinner and cheaper. Fake silver trim pieces were starting to wear, and the damn glove compartment door never closed correctly. Inexcusable for a car in this price range. Only ~35K on the odometer if I remember correctly. About 3 years old.
4. Reliability. In the shop numerous times. One time for about a month. All warranty, but annoying. Only owned it 9 month I believe, and it was in the shop several times. Inexcusable.
I've asked Lexus techs at several different dealership their opinion of the 430 vs the 460, just to see if my experience was an outlier. Every single one said the 430 was easily the better car of the two. The 460 does not have a good reputation with the Lexus techs I spoke with.
1. Looks. 460 is a beautiful design.
2. Upgraded entertainment with streaming.
Here's what I hated about my 2010 460L compared to any of the three 430s I have owned.
1. Noise. Just about every aspect when it came to sound. The 460 engine had a terrible ticking from the direct injection. You had to drown it out with the radio. Unfortunately, I listen to a lot of sports radio, and at stoplights and low speed, the ticking was very audible. Road noise and wind noise was also more pronounced. Numerous creaks and rattles that were not present in the 430.
2. Ride. The 460s ride is harsher than the 430s, especially with the larger wheels. It handled better, but you don't usually ask a fat girl to dance on her toes. Not the purpose of the car. Far better option that the 460 if that is your goal.
3. Build Quality. While the design of the 460s interior is updated, the leather felt thinner and cheaper. Fake silver trim pieces were starting to wear, and the damn glove compartment door never closed correctly. Inexcusable for a car in this price range. Only ~35K on the odometer if I remember correctly. About 3 years old.
4. Reliability. In the shop numerous times. One time for about a month. All warranty, but annoying. Only owned it 9 month I believe, and it was in the shop several times. Inexcusable.
I've asked Lexus techs at several different dealership their opinion of the 430 vs the 460, just to see if my experience was an outlier. Every single one said the 430 was easily the better car of the two. The 460 does not have a good reputation with the Lexus techs I spoke with.
I love the power, styling, interior, and features of the 460 over the 430. I just love being in the cockpit of the 460. Yes, you hear more engine note than the 430, but I never could detect the direct ignition ticking that Bob04 describes. That would drive me nuts if I could detect it (just like how the RX 350 water pump whine grates on my nerves). The 430 was the epitome of reliability. In the six months that we have had the 460, I've noticed a burnt out ambient light, bad seatbelt buckle design that allows the metal portion to dig into the seat bolsters if you're not careful using the seat memory, and the glove box wouldn't fully open. The issues have not cost me anything out of pocket but did cost me several trips to the dealership and time from work. Despite all of that, I still love, love, love the 460 and enjoy driving it with the music on and up. The second day owning the 460 a stranger came up and asked about the Flaxen interior because he wanted to redo his Jeep in it. I have also received several "nice Lexus" or "nice car" compliments with the 460, whereas no one had complimented the 430 in the 11 months I drove it. I find the 460, with 19" wheels and air suspension rides better and quieter than the 430 with 18" wheels non-air suspension. The 430 is quieter at idle but the 460 has it beat in overall quietness and ride quality when on the move, especially at freeway speeds. I do find the 430 has more comfortable seats though for long trips and the 430 had a more accurate MPG calculator (based on comparisons with my hand calculations). The 430 still has THE BEST headlights with a very broad beam of illumination that spans seven lanes of freeway traffic and still shows the shoulder and center median divider! The 430 is a great car but I didn't like how it changed me once I got in it. The 460 just "fits" me better.
Oh, one thing I really disliked about the 06 430 was the very loud turn signals. In such a quiet car they are deafening, but perhaps a benefit to my Dad with hearing problems. I wish the turn signals were as quiet as the 01-03 430s.
The LS460s from like 2007 to 2012 are sort of sketchy. Control arm issues and melting plastic door panels. Plus they just sort of felt down market and cheap.
I will say though the last update from 2013+ , they are really nice cars. I think it's a "worthy" successor to the 430.
Probably not going to be as reliable and simple as the 430, but I honestly like the new LS better than my 430.
I will say though the last update from 2013+ , they are really nice cars. I think it's a "worthy" successor to the 430.
Probably not going to be as reliable and simple as the 430, but I honestly like the new LS better than my 430.
Last edited by FatherTo1; 09-07-17 at 06:09 PM.
09-07-17, 06:37 PM
#24
Racer
I loved the part about feeling 20 years older when you drove the 430 .... brilliant observation! So true ! and why I love mine. Driving where I live is not much fun... too many cars, so more involvement in the driving of the car would end up being less enjoyable for me.
09-07-17, 07:34 PM
#25
Racer
Thanks, Stu. The 430 is great at coddling occupants and sheltering them from the rest of the world. I was very surprised that I didn't connect more with the 430 since it offered everything that I was seeking -- impeccable quality, famous LS ride and quietness, and the 04-06 offered many performance, comfort, and safety features that modern mainstream cars still lack. I fully expected the 430 to be the last car I would ever want or need. The car went about its business and did everything asked of it and did everything well, but it was soulless. I hold the 430 in high regard for accomplishing what it was designed to be and do. If only the design goals included some personality or automotive spirit. It was the automotive equivalent of a purely platonic relationship. None of this is meant to lambast the car. The 430 is a great, great car and I could never have imagined that a lack of connection would be such a deal breaker for me. I still struggle to understand it as the car is perfect in so many other ways.
09-07-17, 09:02 PM
#26
Racer
see I do get the soulless part. It is a beautiful but bland automotive relationship. I do love mine yet I am looking to replace it. The only reason I don't is because it does everything I need so perfectly and honestly dont know if I can find a better car ... for me. Really liked your take on the 430 .... it struck a chord.
09-08-17, 04:19 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
What would be interesting to see.....in 2028, compare a '17 LS460 to a '18 LS500, my hunch is the sale price used is a big delta. People in our sub forum are picking up really reliable cars for $6k to $12k--in 2017 dollars in 2028, it would not surprise me if a 10 y.o. LS500 goes for 25-30k....the LS430 is a very unique scenario buying it 10-13 y.o....the reliability is off the charts...I also wonder, with Irma, if now SE cars are off the table for used. A guy who deals cars in the office felt that is affirmative.
09-08-17, 04:32 AM
#28
If you look at the LS460 site, you will likely find many satisfied former LS430 owners who now drive LS460's and are happy about it. Sad to say but we may all find ourselves there one day.
09-08-17, 05:28 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Another observation, on this sub forum there are folks with 2-4 LS430's, that is atypical of the general society....are there folks with 2-4 LS460's, will there be folks with 2-4 LS500's? There is something very unique about the LS430. Most people here would have been able to buy a A8L used, cheaper, major reason why they did not...
09-08-17, 06:30 AM
#30
Racer
I bought my LS 7 years ago and looked at the Audi A8. At the time it was $8,000 to $10,000 more. I wasn't going to buy a car that was more expensive to buy and more expensive to own. If I didn't care about the cost, for sure I would have bought the Audi. They are amazing cars but just not "right" for me.