LS430 Compared to Modern Cars
02-02-17, 07:56 PM
#1
LS430 Compared to Modern Cars
I picked up the Gs350 about a week ago as I wanted sometime more sporty. I would not sell the LS, it will remain in the family. I'm really liking the GS350 so far, it feels like a sports car. And after driving it in a week I got in the LS430 again and I was still amazed at how nice the car still is. Its older but honestly the built quality feels better, its more comfortable too. I was a bit surprised at how loud the GS350 engine is compared to what I'm used to in the LS or even the BMW inline 6. The GS has more tech and is a nice car but something about the LS that I still love, if I had to keep 1 I honestly couldn't answer that question very quickly if I had to give one up...
For those who have bought newer cars do you feel the same way about still being amazed at how nice the LS still is for being older? The engining of the cars is really incredible, the car has like no creaks or noises, every single person who gets in the car is always amazed at the ride quality and feel, as am I. The plan is to give the LS to my parents so they can have it, but it will be always close by for me to drive it.
For those who have bought newer cars do you feel the same way about still being amazed at how nice the LS still is for being older? The engining of the cars is really incredible, the car has like no creaks or noises, every single person who gets in the car is always amazed at the ride quality and feel, as am I. The plan is to give the LS to my parents so they can have it, but it will be always close by for me to drive it.
02-02-17, 08:01 PM
#2
Pole Position
Compared to modern cars?
It is a modern car in all but date of production.
That's what makes the OG LS400s so amazing imo, it's not like they're the Everyman's Mercedes 600. It's that you can drive an 1992 LS400 back to back with a 2017 Malibu and they don't feel 25 years separated (beyond the infotainment).
It is a modern car in all but date of production.
That's what makes the OG LS400s so amazing imo, it's not like they're the Everyman's Mercedes 600. It's that you can drive an 1992 LS400 back to back with a 2017 Malibu and they don't feel 25 years separated (beyond the infotainment).
02-02-17, 08:46 PM
#3
Compared to modern cars?
It is a modern car in all but date of production.
That's what makes the OG LS400s so amazing imo, it's not like they're the Everyman's Mercedes 600. It's that you can drive an 1992 LS400 back to back with a 2017 Malibu and they don't feel 25 years separated (beyond the infotainment).
It is a modern car in all but date of production.
That's what makes the OG LS400s so amazing imo, it's not like they're the Everyman's Mercedes 600. It's that you can drive an 1992 LS400 back to back with a 2017 Malibu and they don't feel 25 years separated (beyond the infotainment).
02-03-17, 04:12 AM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
It pains me to say that every person here is able to say, "They don't make 'em like they used to."
This applies to anything. I have Snap On tools (because I like them) date stamped 2016, and 1957, and in-between. I like to think the sweet spot, like with many things, was circa 2001-2005.
BINGO!! What year were our 3rd gens made? The entire planet peaked somewhere around 2007 and then went downhill.
Drive a turbo 4 cyl. car, which are the standard now, and tell us honestly if, despite the numbers, this is what's considered smooth, powerful, etc.?
I won't give up the LS, and I've only owned it since October. I'll try to get another, but I bet it doesn't happen....
This applies to anything. I have Snap On tools (because I like them) date stamped 2016, and 1957, and in-between. I like to think the sweet spot, like with many things, was circa 2001-2005.
BINGO!! What year were our 3rd gens made? The entire planet peaked somewhere around 2007 and then went downhill.
Drive a turbo 4 cyl. car, which are the standard now, and tell us honestly if, despite the numbers, this is what's considered smooth, powerful, etc.?
I won't give up the LS, and I've only owned it since October. I'll try to get another, but I bet it doesn't happen....
02-03-17, 06:01 AM
#5
It had the same features of my LS430 - except for Nav/folding mirrors - and with a 2.0 ltr turbo four. Of course, the infotainment system was current.
It was quick when you needed it - could probably use a couple more gears for smoothness - but it was quiet (except for the engine) and the seats were uncomfortable slabs of cloth.
Seeing as how the car is about 60-65% less than my LS430 was new, I see it as a good value if someone wants a new car. However, I'm sure the longevity quality is not there. Planned obsolescence still exists, sadly.
02-03-17, 06:01 AM
#6
Moderator
I'd agree. I've driven a few new cars recently and my 2005 could easily pass for a newer car. The placement of controls and ergonomics are just as good as most cars built currently.
02-03-17, 07:16 AM
#7
Mine's a 2003 UL and about the only ting I 'miss' when I get in it these days is OEM bluetooth and backup camera. Infotainment? Couldn't care less. The rest of the car stacks up as good as any other I've driven.
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02-03-17, 07:21 AM
#8
Moderator
Bluetooth... That's one thing I do miss. Whether it's with my phone or my Ipod, I would like to be able to have connectivity without using a cassette adapter! Fortunately, it's an easy fix with the Vais kit. Perhaps when tax return $ gets delivered...
02-03-17, 07:33 AM
#9
Pole Position
I don't know if I buy the idea that 'quality peaked' in the early 2000s.
GM's quality is on the up and up, compare a 2001 Lumina with a 2017 Malibu - GM has managed to improve quality.
And the most reliable cars from the most reliable auto manufacturer seem better - the Lexus LX / Toyota Land Cruiser still kick butt, and they're kinda hamstrung by 'more features' but I'd wager that each individual feature is more reliable.
Besides, the biggest problem IMO isn't the reliability difference between a good Toyota and a great Toyota, it's parts cost and availability.
Drive an LS430 long enough and eventually you'll answer the question:
How much does a door lock actuator go for?
It's $500 from the dealer and $250 if you buy it online. Add up enough of those things and you'll write one of those sour puss threads, "I thought this car was supposed to be good but it's nickle and diming me"
Toyota's moving an insane amount of their volume to the TNGA platform. The first TNGA car, the 2016 Prius, has set the high watermark for reliability, IIRC it's the most reliable Toyota car in Consumer Report's estimation (idk how it compares to the land cruiser), but it unseated the Prius C - the Prius C has been in production for 6 years in its current iteration and that's known to be a very well built and reliable car.
Toyota knocked it out of the park with TNGA if the first example of a TNGA car can unseat a perennial quality champ like the Prius C.
The TNGA parts should be quite a bit more available and it bodes well for cost - look at how cheap F150 parts are - if the volume is there, the aftermarket will follow. And that's critical to keeping a car on the road.
I'm very, very excited for the TNGA Camry, it could be the most competitive Camry since the 1992 Camry that everyone paints as one of the high points of Toyota.
Now, I don't expect any TNGA car to feel as 'solid' as our LSs. But there's something to be said for materials efficiency. Toyota squeezes water from a dry rag when it comes to shaving the last few ounces off of some of their parts, and the pressure is absolutely there with the TNGA cars - some day something like 80% of Toyota's annual output will be built on TNGA: that's something like 10.5 million cars a year, I'm sure Toyota knew they would build fewer than 300k LS430s / UCF30s and they probably didn't didn't budget for a ton of 'shaving the last ounces' off each and every part.
But there are plenty of solid feeling cars that aren't that reliable so it's probably a bad proxy for quality. I can remember the article in the 2013 issue of Consumer Report: 'we would expect a 1993 LS400 to have fewer issues in 2013 than a new Mercedes S class'. Though it might have been another year.
I can tell you all this, I could easily see myself upgrading to a TNGA Camry with the V6. My only criteria for my next car is this: I'm willing to upgrade if I get a car that's faster, more fuel efficient, safer, and as reliable. And if the TNGA camry follows the TNGA Prius' foot steps, I could upgrade cars without feeling as though I've downgraded on quality.
GM's quality is on the up and up, compare a 2001 Lumina with a 2017 Malibu - GM has managed to improve quality.
And the most reliable cars from the most reliable auto manufacturer seem better - the Lexus LX / Toyota Land Cruiser still kick butt, and they're kinda hamstrung by 'more features' but I'd wager that each individual feature is more reliable.
Besides, the biggest problem IMO isn't the reliability difference between a good Toyota and a great Toyota, it's parts cost and availability.
Drive an LS430 long enough and eventually you'll answer the question:
How much does a door lock actuator go for?
It's $500 from the dealer and $250 if you buy it online. Add up enough of those things and you'll write one of those sour puss threads, "I thought this car was supposed to be good but it's nickle and diming me"
Toyota's moving an insane amount of their volume to the TNGA platform. The first TNGA car, the 2016 Prius, has set the high watermark for reliability, IIRC it's the most reliable Toyota car in Consumer Report's estimation (idk how it compares to the land cruiser), but it unseated the Prius C - the Prius C has been in production for 6 years in its current iteration and that's known to be a very well built and reliable car.
Toyota knocked it out of the park with TNGA if the first example of a TNGA car can unseat a perennial quality champ like the Prius C.
The TNGA parts should be quite a bit more available and it bodes well for cost - look at how cheap F150 parts are - if the volume is there, the aftermarket will follow. And that's critical to keeping a car on the road.
I'm very, very excited for the TNGA Camry, it could be the most competitive Camry since the 1992 Camry that everyone paints as one of the high points of Toyota.
Now, I don't expect any TNGA car to feel as 'solid' as our LSs. But there's something to be said for materials efficiency. Toyota squeezes water from a dry rag when it comes to shaving the last few ounces off of some of their parts, and the pressure is absolutely there with the TNGA cars - some day something like 80% of Toyota's annual output will be built on TNGA: that's something like 10.5 million cars a year, I'm sure Toyota knew they would build fewer than 300k LS430s / UCF30s and they probably didn't didn't budget for a ton of 'shaving the last ounces' off each and every part.
But there are plenty of solid feeling cars that aren't that reliable so it's probably a bad proxy for quality. I can remember the article in the 2013 issue of Consumer Report: 'we would expect a 1993 LS400 to have fewer issues in 2013 than a new Mercedes S class'. Though it might have been another year.
I can tell you all this, I could easily see myself upgrading to a TNGA Camry with the V6. My only criteria for my next car is this: I'm willing to upgrade if I get a car that's faster, more fuel efficient, safer, and as reliable. And if the TNGA camry follows the TNGA Prius' foot steps, I could upgrade cars without feeling as though I've downgraded on quality.
02-03-17, 11:20 AM
#10
02-03-17, 05:58 PM
#11
Pole Position
My LS is built a **** ton better than a lot of the late model garbage that comes through our workshop. I think the only thing that would come close are the VF Commodores (Chevy SS and V6 version of), they're screwed together fairly well for a GM I must say
02-03-17, 06:13 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
I saw a brand new twin turbo XT6 today. It struck me as super beautiful.. I also saw a brand new A8L. I'm not nuts, I know my '06 LS430 isn't as nice, but maybe the motor is.
V6 twin turbo is not ideal. Forget about 40x/400, those are numbers. V8 is more balanced, although I6 is king.
Our cars are really nice, everybody who rides in them says so. Are they old? Yep. But they're aging well imho and built nicely.
V6 twin turbo is not ideal. Forget about 40x/400, those are numbers. V8 is more balanced, although I6 is king.
Our cars are really nice, everybody who rides in them says so. Are they old? Yep. But they're aging well imho and built nicely.
02-03-17, 06:52 PM
#13
Instructor
My 2002 is now 15 years old (all 15 in Canada), I've owned it the past 8 years, it drives and operates beautifully, and only had 2 repairs in my 8 years of driving through salty Canadian winters:
1) leak in the high pressure refrigerant line going to the UL's rear air conditioning unit, causing total loss of AC cooling, repaired with 7 hours of Lexus dealership labor and $560 CAD in parts.
2) Y-pipe leak on the passenger side, underneath the heat shield nearest the entry point of road salt water, causing DTC P0430, repaired with an aftermarket Y-pipe ($650 CAD) and 1 hour of local shop labor. You can get the Y-pipe for under $300 if not in a rush. I was in a rush since my DTC lit up the week before I needed to pass emissions testing.
I do all basic maintenance myself - fluid changes, brakes, subwoofer repair, bulbs, door lock actuator, etc. All of that is extremely minor in terms of both time and money. The car becomes much more expensive to maintain if you have to take it to a shop for every little thing.
I agree the LS430 has aged fantastically and is built extremely well. I will probably buy another 2001-2006 if I can find another low-mileage UL with colors I like.
02-03-17, 08:38 PM
#14
Moderator
Until very recently, I traveled fairly often on business and usually rented full size and "premium" rental fleet cars when out of town. None of them came close to being as nice overall as my 06 LS430. I am always happy to get home and get back in the LS and always still surprised at how much better it feels then whatever the latest rental crap-box I was driving while out of town.
02-04-17, 05:42 AM
#15
Intermediate
I just came out of a 10-day Chevrolet Cruze LT rental; newly engineered for 2017.
It had the same features of my LS430 - except for Nav/folding mirrors - and with a 2.0 ltr turbo four. Of course, the infotainment system was current.
It was quick when you needed it - could probably use a couple more gears for smoothness - but it was quiet (except for the engine) and the seats were uncomfortable slabs of cloth.
Seeing as how the car is about 60-65% less than my LS430 was new, I see it as a good value if someone wants a new car. However, I'm sure the longevity quality is not there. Planned obsolescence still exists, sadly.
It had the same features of my LS430 - except for Nav/folding mirrors - and with a 2.0 ltr turbo four. Of course, the infotainment system was current.
It was quick when you needed it - could probably use a couple more gears for smoothness - but it was quiet (except for the engine) and the seats were uncomfortable slabs of cloth.
Seeing as how the car is about 60-65% less than my LS430 was new, I see it as a good value if someone wants a new car. However, I'm sure the longevity quality is not there. Planned obsolescence still exists, sadly.