Drove, and briefly considered, a 460 today...observations
05-31-16, 08:54 PM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Drove, and briefly considered, a 460 today...observations
I'm not in the market for a new car these days, as my beloved 430 still serves me perfectly well and has absolutely nothing wrong with it....also, most importantly, it's just about paid off. Me likey no car payment. However, I ran across a beautiful silver on gray 2011 LS460 SWB 66k miles with the chromed 19" 5 spoke rims, Navigation and ML.....same color scheme and similar trim (equipped, but not loaded out) as my 430 which is what made me say "what the hell, may as well go look...maybe it's a sign."
I now have thoroughly driven both cars and here are my observations. Like I said, I'm not really in the market right now, had I been I may have taken it home. It was a very nice car.
The '11 LS I looked at is GORGEOUS, thoroughly modern looking, and oh, those rims. I think the 2011-12 mid cycle update is probably my favorite of the 460 trims. Car looked fantastic. Head turner.
I got to drive it alone which was my original plan and was thrilled when the guy handed me the keys and told me to take my time. I ran the hell out of it, and also drove slow just to feel it out.
Bottom line? And I already had this figured out before I even looked at it:
It's not really an upgrade, just newer and more modern looking. An ES to LS is an upgrade. An LS to LS is very similar.
I really liked the car, but not enough to get rid of my 430 I love so much and sign a 5-6 year car note when I'm just about done with my current one. I liked the more modern interior, but it was noticeably less roomy and not quite as plush and comfortable inside. Seats weren't as comfy and plush. Window, lock, and seat memory switches felt cheaper. I immediately missed the swiveling vents and didn't care for the plastic area by the vents and clock. Headliner also felt cheaper. Everything else felt about the same (door thunk, stalk operations, damps in button presses, gear shifter out of P, etc.) I made sure to bring a good, loud CD and while the ML was impressive, I wasn't blown away by it, surprisingly. That's supposed to be one of the best factory systems on the market or so I thought.
The driving experience was mostly the same, also, except the handling was better and I can say the 460 is noticeably faster, though only at the peak end of the rpm range, where you can feel that extra 100 horsepower right toward redline. The 430 has more low end torque and feels better to just putter around in, but make no mistake once the 460 revs out it's noticeably quicker. I've heard on here that the 460 is no faster and can tell you from experience it is; you just have to keep the throttle buried to feel the difference. Just puttering around it didn't feel as torquey. I felt the 8 gears were too many, and it often hunted. Overall I didn't care for the 4.6L vs the 4.3. The nice, subtle 2-2.5k hum ours makes wasn't there, and winding it out it didn't have that ripping silk sound. Also, it's not as smooth as the 4.3 (due to timing chain vs timing belt).--though still plenty smooth, I admit I'm splitting hairs. That said, I'm definitely team UZ.
The cars were about the same road noise wise, though more ambient and wind noise seemed to get in the 460. The 460 did ride very nice, and I was surprised given the lower profile tires and 19" rims. A little more planted to the road it felt, but with that it also had less suspension rebound which I noticed.
Let me be clear by me saying that by no means are these "demerits" towards the 460. Because I say my seats are more comfortable and the leather is plusher, wood shinier, THAT'S NOT me saying the 460 is a bad car. I did enjoy it, and would drive it in a heartbeat. If my car were on its last leg or if I were in the market in general, I may have walked with it. But, like I said, I just don't feel it's really an upgrade from my current car (other than styling and a few modern tweaks), and I sure don't want car payments for 5 more years.
So that's my story for today. I may look for a '13 LS460 years down the road when it actually is time to retire the 430, though who knows when that will be. Like I said I'm not a fan of car payments. I don't think the 460 has a cheap interior at all as some have said, but while more dated looking, the 430 is unquestionably more luxurious inside in my opinion.
I'd post this in the 460 forums (worded differently), but I'm not trying to argue here. Any LS is an amazing car. For some I'm sure, the styling upgrade and just having a newer car are worth it, but not to me. Old faithful still has many years and 200,000 more miles left in her.
I now have thoroughly driven both cars and here are my observations. Like I said, I'm not really in the market right now, had I been I may have taken it home. It was a very nice car.
The '11 LS I looked at is GORGEOUS, thoroughly modern looking, and oh, those rims. I think the 2011-12 mid cycle update is probably my favorite of the 460 trims. Car looked fantastic. Head turner.
I got to drive it alone which was my original plan and was thrilled when the guy handed me the keys and told me to take my time. I ran the hell out of it, and also drove slow just to feel it out.
Bottom line? And I already had this figured out before I even looked at it:
It's not really an upgrade, just newer and more modern looking. An ES to LS is an upgrade. An LS to LS is very similar.
I really liked the car, but not enough to get rid of my 430 I love so much and sign a 5-6 year car note when I'm just about done with my current one. I liked the more modern interior, but it was noticeably less roomy and not quite as plush and comfortable inside. Seats weren't as comfy and plush. Window, lock, and seat memory switches felt cheaper. I immediately missed the swiveling vents and didn't care for the plastic area by the vents and clock. Headliner also felt cheaper. Everything else felt about the same (door thunk, stalk operations, damps in button presses, gear shifter out of P, etc.) I made sure to bring a good, loud CD and while the ML was impressive, I wasn't blown away by it, surprisingly. That's supposed to be one of the best factory systems on the market or so I thought.
The driving experience was mostly the same, also, except the handling was better and I can say the 460 is noticeably faster, though only at the peak end of the rpm range, where you can feel that extra 100 horsepower right toward redline. The 430 has more low end torque and feels better to just putter around in, but make no mistake once the 460 revs out it's noticeably quicker. I've heard on here that the 460 is no faster and can tell you from experience it is; you just have to keep the throttle buried to feel the difference. Just puttering around it didn't feel as torquey. I felt the 8 gears were too many, and it often hunted. Overall I didn't care for the 4.6L vs the 4.3. The nice, subtle 2-2.5k hum ours makes wasn't there, and winding it out it didn't have that ripping silk sound. Also, it's not as smooth as the 4.3 (due to timing chain vs timing belt).--though still plenty smooth, I admit I'm splitting hairs. That said, I'm definitely team UZ.
The cars were about the same road noise wise, though more ambient and wind noise seemed to get in the 460. The 460 did ride very nice, and I was surprised given the lower profile tires and 19" rims. A little more planted to the road it felt, but with that it also had less suspension rebound which I noticed.
Let me be clear by me saying that by no means are these "demerits" towards the 460. Because I say my seats are more comfortable and the leather is plusher, wood shinier, THAT'S NOT me saying the 460 is a bad car. I did enjoy it, and would drive it in a heartbeat. If my car were on its last leg or if I were in the market in general, I may have walked with it. But, like I said, I just don't feel it's really an upgrade from my current car (other than styling and a few modern tweaks), and I sure don't want car payments for 5 more years.
So that's my story for today. I may look for a '13 LS460 years down the road when it actually is time to retire the 430, though who knows when that will be. Like I said I'm not a fan of car payments. I don't think the 460 has a cheap interior at all as some have said, but while more dated looking, the 430 is unquestionably more luxurious inside in my opinion.
I'd post this in the 460 forums (worded differently), but I'm not trying to argue here. Any LS is an amazing car. For some I'm sure, the styling upgrade and just having a newer car are worth it, but not to me. Old faithful still has many years and 200,000 more miles left in her.
Last edited by AJT123; 05-31-16 at 09:08 PM.
05-31-16, 10:40 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
My observations were a bit different. I wanted either a 460 or 430. I had no preference before making the purchase. Simply put, the 460 didn't have the high interior quality as the 430. The 430 felt "richer" and a bit more special..maybe even a handbuilt feeling (to be fair, my car is an UL). That's not to say the 460 is a bad...it just didn't seem as nice. The ride also didn't seem as nice. It did seem to handle better however. I preferred the modern technology of the 460. I quite like the looks of the 460. I like the modern interior styling. But there's just something about the way the 430 looks. It has great curb appeal.
In the end, I bought the 430. It just seemed of higher quality. A bit tough to put into words, actually. But I suspect some here will know what I'm talking about.
In the end, I bought the 430. It just seemed of higher quality. A bit tough to put into words, actually. But I suspect some here will know what I'm talking about.
05-31-16, 10:56 PM
#3
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
My observations were a bit different. I wanted either a 460 or 430. I had no preference before making the purchase. Simply put, the 460 didn't have the high interior quality as the 430. The 430 felt "richer" and a bit more special..maybe even a handbuilt feeling (to be fair, my car is an UL). That's not to say the 460 is a bad...it just didn't seem as nice. The ride also didn't seem as nice. It did seem to handle better however. I preferred the modern technology of the 460. I quite like the looks of the 460. I like the modern interior styling. But there's just something about the way the 430 looks. It has great curb appeal.
In the end, I bought the 430. It just seemed of higher quality. A bit tough to put into words, actually. But I suspect some here will know what I'm talking about.
In the end, I bought the 430. It just seemed of higher quality. A bit tough to put into words, actually. But I suspect some here will know what I'm talking about.
The 460 is updated, more modern, but it didn't "wow" me to where I wanted to buy it. Wasn't much of an upgrade. I agree the 430 feels more special and luxurious.
06-01-16, 07:52 AM
#5
Moderator
It is extremely hard to beat a nice condition well taken care of LS430 for "bang for the buck" luxury and reliability. It is old fashioned to some extent and classic styling is something one appreciates or finds off putting for the more modern high shoulder design. Personally I really dislike the look of all the high shoulder small window modern car designs (although the 2011-2012 LS460 is a very nice looking car)....most of the latest designs remind me of armored cars with their way too small for scale windows (ex. current Camaro, most Chrysler products, Mercedes sedans, etc.)
06-01-16, 07:59 AM
#6
Enjoy no car payment for a couple years it's a wonderful weight reduction ^_^
I agree with you it would be nice to have the technology already in the car but you already touched on why it's hard to walk away from the 430 without a solid reason... a total loss accident is the only thing that comes to mind lol.
I agree with you it would be nice to have the technology already in the car but you already touched on why it's hard to walk away from the 430 without a solid reason... a total loss accident is the only thing that comes to mind lol.
Last edited by MikeFoxx; 06-01-16 at 08:02 AM.
06-01-16, 07:15 PM
#7
Pole Position
I own a 460, but I've always been a fan of the 430. I like its legendary reliability and I always enjoy reading the high mileage threads on here.
I think 430 owners would be pleasantly surprised by the 460. The 460 instantly got a bad rap because of the valve spring recall, but it's a pretty solid car overall. The springs have turned into a non issue and now that the car's been around a while we are starting to see just what it's flaws and strengths are. It has two major flaws right now...the control arms and the brake actuator.
The control arms were/are a nightmare if you get them repaired by Lexus, because they will crush you with an absurd price of over $3,000 to replace the 8 arms up front. Now that aftermarket parts are available (and people found out how easy it is to replace them) prices have dropped dramatically. Independent shops will replace basically your entire front suspension for $1,000. As for the brake actuator, Lexus has extended the warranty on that part to Dec 2017 with unlimited mileage. Other than that these cars are pretty reliable; there are people with 200,000 plus miles on them with minimal problems. Usually it's just the control arms, unless you have the air ride, then all the problems associated with air suspensions apply to the 460. I don't know if it will match the long term reliability of the 430 (most likely not), but it is certainly more reliable than the average car...and night and day compared to the cars it was built to compete with (Mercedes and BMW).
I think 430 owners would be pleasantly surprised by the 460. The 460 instantly got a bad rap because of the valve spring recall, but it's a pretty solid car overall. The springs have turned into a non issue and now that the car's been around a while we are starting to see just what it's flaws and strengths are. It has two major flaws right now...the control arms and the brake actuator.
The control arms were/are a nightmare if you get them repaired by Lexus, because they will crush you with an absurd price of over $3,000 to replace the 8 arms up front. Now that aftermarket parts are available (and people found out how easy it is to replace them) prices have dropped dramatically. Independent shops will replace basically your entire front suspension for $1,000. As for the brake actuator, Lexus has extended the warranty on that part to Dec 2017 with unlimited mileage. Other than that these cars are pretty reliable; there are people with 200,000 plus miles on them with minimal problems. Usually it's just the control arms, unless you have the air ride, then all the problems associated with air suspensions apply to the 460. I don't know if it will match the long term reliability of the 430 (most likely not), but it is certainly more reliable than the average car...and night and day compared to the cars it was built to compete with (Mercedes and BMW).
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06-01-16, 08:40 PM
#8
Pole Position
Would this be the LS430 forum if we didn't grossly exaggerate quality differences? Heck, people even nit-pick the 05/06 vs the 04.
But perhaps the minute differences matter more here because 05/06 LS430s are the high watermark for toyota car reliability in the 21st century.
I test drove an LS460 recently, and it's a great car. If someone swapped me out for an LS460 that'd be great. But I was underwhelmed by the LS460. And now I realized why -
When I first drove the LS430, it blew my mind that such an old car could be so good. Heck, that a car could be so far up my alley. It had waftable torque, a plush interior, excellent suspension (IMO), almost no noise, and it wasn't just 'pretty reliable' it was one of the most reliable toyotas available!
I came from a Honda element that was much worse - it got worse milage, was 30 db louder at 70 mph, had a ~10 second 0-60, and wasn't well put together.
From my frame of reference, the LS430 looked like salvation.
Now that I'm calibrated to the LS430, all the incremental improvements in the LS460 don't blow my mind. they just make a lot of sense and it's what you'd expect from a new car.
It's not that the LS460 is a bad car, just that it's a tough sell if you already have an LS430 in good condition.
The 1950s Rolls Royces and Jaguars gave us a template for what makes an excellent sedan or saloon. The LS430 is 95% of the ideal conventional saloon and the LS460 is 97%.
It's better. But it's not mind warping better. Heck, I bet most of us would do fine in a brand new 1998 LS400 - who wouldn't it's a great car?
Between us pals. if I wanted a mind warping car I'd get the Toyota Mirai (were it available in my state) or 4th gen Prius. Those cars are the future.
Just as our cars are excellent 1950s cars, the Prius and Mirai are like beta versions of a car circa 2050.
But I can't justify selling my car for the price dealers would give me and there's a real chance this will be the last car I own before I just buy rides from an autonomous uber.
But perhaps the minute differences matter more here because 05/06 LS430s are the high watermark for toyota car reliability in the 21st century.
I test drove an LS460 recently, and it's a great car. If someone swapped me out for an LS460 that'd be great. But I was underwhelmed by the LS460. And now I realized why -
When I first drove the LS430, it blew my mind that such an old car could be so good. Heck, that a car could be so far up my alley. It had waftable torque, a plush interior, excellent suspension (IMO), almost no noise, and it wasn't just 'pretty reliable' it was one of the most reliable toyotas available!
I came from a Honda element that was much worse - it got worse milage, was 30 db louder at 70 mph, had a ~10 second 0-60, and wasn't well put together.
From my frame of reference, the LS430 looked like salvation.
Now that I'm calibrated to the LS430, all the incremental improvements in the LS460 don't blow my mind. they just make a lot of sense and it's what you'd expect from a new car.
It's not that the LS460 is a bad car, just that it's a tough sell if you already have an LS430 in good condition.
The 1950s Rolls Royces and Jaguars gave us a template for what makes an excellent sedan or saloon. The LS430 is 95% of the ideal conventional saloon and the LS460 is 97%.
It's better. But it's not mind warping better. Heck, I bet most of us would do fine in a brand new 1998 LS400 - who wouldn't it's a great car?
Between us pals. if I wanted a mind warping car I'd get the Toyota Mirai (were it available in my state) or 4th gen Prius. Those cars are the future.
Just as our cars are excellent 1950s cars, the Prius and Mirai are like beta versions of a car circa 2050.
But I can't justify selling my car for the price dealers would give me and there's a real chance this will be the last car I own before I just buy rides from an autonomous uber.
06-02-16, 12:26 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
It's a newer car and flashier and will turn heads more but that's literally it (for me at least). That's not worth $31,000.
06-02-16, 08:07 AM
#10
Pole Position
I'm not in the market for a new car these days, as my beloved 430 still serves me perfectly well and has absolutely nothing wrong with it....also, most importantly, it's just about paid off. Me likey no car payment. However, I ran across a beautiful silver on gray 2011 LS460 SWB 66k miles with the chromed 19" 5 spoke rims, Navigation and ML.....same color scheme and similar trim (equipped, but not loaded out) as my 430 which is what made me say "what the hell, may as well go look...maybe it's a sign."
I now have thoroughly driven both cars and here are my observations. Like I said, I'm not really in the market right now, had I been I may have taken it home. It was a very nice car.
The '11 LS I looked at is GORGEOUS, thoroughly modern looking, and oh, those rims. I think the 2011-12 mid cycle update is probably my favorite of the 460 trims. Car looked fantastic. Head turner.
I got to drive it alone which was my original plan and was thrilled when the guy handed me the keys and told me to take my time. I ran the hell out of it, and also drove slow just to feel it out.
Bottom line? And I already had this figured out before I even looked at it:
It's not really an upgrade, just newer and more modern looking. An ES to LS is an upgrade. An LS to LS is very similar.
I really liked the car, but not enough to get rid of my 430 I love so much and sign a 5-6 year car note when I'm just about done with my current one. I liked the more modern interior, but it was noticeably less roomy and not quite as plush and comfortable inside. Seats weren't as comfy and plush. Window, lock, and seat memory switches felt cheaper. I immediately missed the swiveling vents and didn't care for the plastic area by the vents and clock. Headliner also felt cheaper. Everything else felt about the same (door thunk, stalk operations, damps in button presses, gear shifter out of P, etc.) I made sure to bring a good, loud CD and while the ML was impressive, I wasn't blown away by it, surprisingly. That's supposed to be one of the best factory systems on the market or so I thought.
The driving experience was mostly the same, also, except the handling was better and I can say the 460 is noticeably faster, though only at the peak end of the rpm range, where you can feel that extra 100 horsepower right toward redline. The 430 has more low end torque and feels better to just putter around in, but make no mistake once the 460 revs out it's noticeably quicker. I've heard on here that the 460 is no faster and can tell you from experience it is; you just have to keep the throttle buried to feel the difference. Just puttering around it didn't feel as torquey. I felt the 8 gears were too many, and it often hunted. Overall I didn't care for the 4.6L vs the 4.3. The nice, subtle 2-2.5k hum ours makes wasn't there, and winding it out it didn't have that ripping silk sound. Also, it's not as smooth as the 4.3 (due to timing chain vs timing belt).--though still plenty smooth, I admit I'm splitting hairs. That said, I'm definitely team UZ.
The cars were about the same road noise wise, though more ambient and wind noise seemed to get in the 460. The 460 did ride very nice, and I was surprised given the lower profile tires and 19" rims. A little more planted to the road it felt, but with that it also had less suspension rebound which I noticed.
Let me be clear by me saying that by no means are these "demerits" towards the 460. Because I say my seats are more comfortable and the leather is plusher, wood shinier, THAT'S NOT me saying the 460 is a bad car. I did enjoy it, and would drive it in a heartbeat. If my car were on its last leg or if I were in the market in general, I may have walked with it. But, like I said, I just don't feel it's really an upgrade from my current car (other than styling and a few modern tweaks), and I sure don't want car payments for 5 more years.
So that's my story for today. I may look for a '13 LS460 years down the road when it actually is time to retire the 430, though who knows when that will be. Like I said I'm not a fan of car payments. I don't think the 460 has a cheap interior at all as some have said, but while more dated looking, the 430 is unquestionably more luxurious inside in my opinion.
I'd post this in the 460 forums (worded differently), but I'm not trying to argue here. Any LS is an amazing car. For some I'm sure, the styling upgrade and just having a newer car are worth it, but not to me. Old faithful still has many years and 200,000 more miles left in her.
I now have thoroughly driven both cars and here are my observations. Like I said, I'm not really in the market right now, had I been I may have taken it home. It was a very nice car.
The '11 LS I looked at is GORGEOUS, thoroughly modern looking, and oh, those rims. I think the 2011-12 mid cycle update is probably my favorite of the 460 trims. Car looked fantastic. Head turner.
I got to drive it alone which was my original plan and was thrilled when the guy handed me the keys and told me to take my time. I ran the hell out of it, and also drove slow just to feel it out.
Bottom line? And I already had this figured out before I even looked at it:
It's not really an upgrade, just newer and more modern looking. An ES to LS is an upgrade. An LS to LS is very similar.
I really liked the car, but not enough to get rid of my 430 I love so much and sign a 5-6 year car note when I'm just about done with my current one. I liked the more modern interior, but it was noticeably less roomy and not quite as plush and comfortable inside. Seats weren't as comfy and plush. Window, lock, and seat memory switches felt cheaper. I immediately missed the swiveling vents and didn't care for the plastic area by the vents and clock. Headliner also felt cheaper. Everything else felt about the same (door thunk, stalk operations, damps in button presses, gear shifter out of P, etc.) I made sure to bring a good, loud CD and while the ML was impressive, I wasn't blown away by it, surprisingly. That's supposed to be one of the best factory systems on the market or so I thought.
The driving experience was mostly the same, also, except the handling was better and I can say the 460 is noticeably faster, though only at the peak end of the rpm range, where you can feel that extra 100 horsepower right toward redline. The 430 has more low end torque and feels better to just putter around in, but make no mistake once the 460 revs out it's noticeably quicker. I've heard on here that the 460 is no faster and can tell you from experience it is; you just have to keep the throttle buried to feel the difference. Just puttering around it didn't feel as torquey. I felt the 8 gears were too many, and it often hunted. Overall I didn't care for the 4.6L vs the 4.3. The nice, subtle 2-2.5k hum ours makes wasn't there, and winding it out it didn't have that ripping silk sound. Also, it's not as smooth as the 4.3 (due to timing chain vs timing belt).--though still plenty smooth, I admit I'm splitting hairs. That said, I'm definitely team UZ.
The cars were about the same road noise wise, though more ambient and wind noise seemed to get in the 460. The 460 did ride very nice, and I was surprised given the lower profile tires and 19" rims. A little more planted to the road it felt, but with that it also had less suspension rebound which I noticed.
Let me be clear by me saying that by no means are these "demerits" towards the 460. Because I say my seats are more comfortable and the leather is plusher, wood shinier, THAT'S NOT me saying the 460 is a bad car. I did enjoy it, and would drive it in a heartbeat. If my car were on its last leg or if I were in the market in general, I may have walked with it. But, like I said, I just don't feel it's really an upgrade from my current car (other than styling and a few modern tweaks), and I sure don't want car payments for 5 more years.
So that's my story for today. I may look for a '13 LS460 years down the road when it actually is time to retire the 430, though who knows when that will be. Like I said I'm not a fan of car payments. I don't think the 460 has a cheap interior at all as some have said, but while more dated looking, the 430 is unquestionably more luxurious inside in my opinion.
I'd post this in the 460 forums (worded differently), but I'm not trying to argue here. Any LS is an amazing car. For some I'm sure, the styling upgrade and just having a newer car are worth it, but not to me. Old faithful still has many years and 200,000 more miles left in her.
06-02-16, 08:38 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
An excellent and well thought out review for sure! Funny how we talked about this just yesterday lol. I think you really hit the nail on the head when you say an LS to LS upgrade just isn't that signifcant. I think for all of us, when we first decided to step foot into our first LS (or indeed the first flagship car), it was a total game changer. I went from a '07 328i to an '04 LS430 about 6 yrs ago and was absolutely blown away by how much quieter, smoother, and just nicer the LS was compared to my newer 3 series. Fast forward about a yr ago when I was shopping for my 460, I tried all sorts of different cars. Heck even the S-class and 7 series (while incredibly cool tech wise) didn't wow me as much as I had hoped. Really for us the only cars that we are truely going to get amazed by are cars from the next tier up, like Bentley or Rolls Royce. The only luxury car that has truely made my jaw drop ever since owning the LS has been sitting inside a Phantom - talk about craftsmanship!
06-02-16, 10:06 AM
#12
I could see myself buying a used LS460 someday, I'm not going to drive my LS430 forever, but I definitely think the car took a step backwards in terms of quality.
It sort of reminds me of Mercedes Benz in the late 90's, they just started to have a cheapness about them that was hard to put your finger on, but it just wasn't the same.
I like the lines on the LS460 and think the LS430 now looks a bit dated, but the new one just doesn't feel "flagship".
I was looking at a new LS460 and ES350 at a dealership, and if you didn't see the rear badges, it was hard to tell the difference. It just didn't feel near the step up that warranted almost double the price.
It sort of reminds me of Mercedes Benz in the late 90's, they just started to have a cheapness about them that was hard to put your finger on, but it just wasn't the same.
I like the lines on the LS460 and think the LS430 now looks a bit dated, but the new one just doesn't feel "flagship".
I was looking at a new LS460 and ES350 at a dealership, and if you didn't see the rear badges, it was hard to tell the difference. It just didn't feel near the step up that warranted almost double the price.
06-03-16, 12:59 AM
#13
We obtained a '14 SWB LS460 to replace the wife's '01 430 (not a UL) that she got in '04 so around 11 years worth of service.
She really likes her 460 over the 430 since it has more modern bells and whistles and is "new" to her. Different color and different interior - not better just different.
Driving wise, the 460 is bit better than the 430 but now I am driving the 430 as a DD (replaced my '07 Civic coupe) and I have to say the 430 is a really nice driving car all the way around and value wise is a bargain in the $10-20K range depending on year and mileage. (We could buy several for what it took to get the 460....).
I think they are both great cars and all of the above observations I agree with. I would be perfectly happy to stay with the 430 but when it comes time to "catch" her 460 as a "hand me down" I don't think I'll turn it down... (not unless I was able to "score" an LC500 in a couple of years....
)
She really likes her 460 over the 430 since it has more modern bells and whistles and is "new" to her. Different color and different interior - not better just different.
Driving wise, the 460 is bit better than the 430 but now I am driving the 430 as a DD (replaced my '07 Civic coupe) and I have to say the 430 is a really nice driving car all the way around and value wise is a bargain in the $10-20K range depending on year and mileage. (We could buy several for what it took to get the 460....).
I think they are both great cars and all of the above observations I agree with. I would be perfectly happy to stay with the 430 but when it comes time to "catch" her 460 as a "hand me down" I don't think I'll turn it down... (not unless I was able to "score" an LC500 in a couple of years....
)
06-03-16, 04:49 AM
#14
Moderator
Just read through everyone's comments. Good read... We all seem to look at this pretty much from the same angle. Over the years I've had a few "Luxury" cars before stepping into ownership of a Lexus (notice luxury is in quotes there...)
1992 Buick Park Avenue Ultra
2003 Oldsmobile Aurora
1992 Mercedes 190E 2.6
1997 Mercedes E300
They all had good/bad points, but the LS was the game changer. No other car has come this close to ticking all the boxes like the LS did.
So, when we look at the LS460 perhaps we're setting our expectations a little too high?
It would be interesting to read through the 460 threads and see reviews from owners who stepped into the 460 from a lesser vehicle. I'm sure they'd sing it's praises much like we do to the 430.
That being said, I agree that the 460 in some ways feels cheaper than the 430 (perhaps costs needed to be saved someplace??)
Looking back to my 190E and the E300 I had, comparing them to my dad's 2011 C300 Sport, they don't appear to be cut from the same cloth. The quality is just not there.
Similarly, I believe the LS430 represents the Zenith of car quality. We may never see any single car that accomplished what it did again. Innovation, technology AND reliability all in one.
.02
1992 Buick Park Avenue Ultra
2003 Oldsmobile Aurora
1992 Mercedes 190E 2.6
1997 Mercedes E300
They all had good/bad points, but the LS was the game changer. No other car has come this close to ticking all the boxes like the LS did.
So, when we look at the LS460 perhaps we're setting our expectations a little too high?
It would be interesting to read through the 460 threads and see reviews from owners who stepped into the 460 from a lesser vehicle. I'm sure they'd sing it's praises much like we do to the 430.
That being said, I agree that the 460 in some ways feels cheaper than the 430 (perhaps costs needed to be saved someplace??)
Looking back to my 190E and the E300 I had, comparing them to my dad's 2011 C300 Sport, they don't appear to be cut from the same cloth. The quality is just not there.
Similarly, I believe the LS430 represents the Zenith of car quality. We may never see any single car that accomplished what it did again. Innovation, technology AND reliability all in one.
.02
06-03-16, 09:16 AM
#15
Instructor
Back in 2012, I test-drove a 2011 LS600hL, fully loaded with every possible option. Compared to my 2002 UL, road/wind noise was the same, same smoothness on the road, and handling seemed slightly worse than my 2002 UL likely because because the LS600hL is longer, bigger, and heavier.
I disliked the following items in the LS460-LS600hl generation:
* Steering feel - electronic steering has zero road feedback and it felt odd to drive.
* Braking feel - regenerative brakes feel very different than normal brakes.
* Turning radius - the LS430 can turn on a dime, incredibly sharp turning radius. Not so in the LS600hL.
* GPS touchscreen - requires significantly more finger pressure than my 2002. I can accurately type on my 2002's touchscreen in the winter while wearing thick gloves. This is impossible with the LS600hL touchscreen.
* GPS screen - is equivalent in color range, resolution, and style as my 2002, at least on the default map screen.
* GPS updates - requires going to the dealership and using specially-coded USB keys or disk drives, whereas the LS430 maps can be updated for free using properly-copied DVDs
* Folding mirrors - the LS430's truly fold into the car and saves a ton of horizontal space. The LS460-600hL mirrors just rotate slightly upwards, barely making a difference in how much the mirrors protrude from the body.
* Body style - the LS460 looks very similar to the ES
* Engine bay - more complicated to change oil and other fluids than in the LS430. It is extremely easy to change fluids in the LS430.
I disliked the following items in the LS460-LS600hl generation:
* Steering feel - electronic steering has zero road feedback and it felt odd to drive.
* Braking feel - regenerative brakes feel very different than normal brakes.
* Turning radius - the LS430 can turn on a dime, incredibly sharp turning radius. Not so in the LS600hL.
* GPS touchscreen - requires significantly more finger pressure than my 2002. I can accurately type on my 2002's touchscreen in the winter while wearing thick gloves. This is impossible with the LS600hL touchscreen.
* GPS screen - is equivalent in color range, resolution, and style as my 2002, at least on the default map screen.
* GPS updates - requires going to the dealership and using specially-coded USB keys or disk drives, whereas the LS430 maps can be updated for free using properly-copied DVDs
* Folding mirrors - the LS430's truly fold into the car and saves a ton of horizontal space. The LS460-600hL mirrors just rotate slightly upwards, barely making a difference in how much the mirrors protrude from the body.
* Body style - the LS460 looks very similar to the ES
* Engine bay - more complicated to change oil and other fluids than in the LS430. It is extremely easy to change fluids in the LS430.