Healfdane

Hi, everyone.

I've definitely decided on a used LS-something as my "new" commuter car. I've done enough research here and on the 400 forum, and elsewhere on the internet, to know that it seems I can't really go horribly wrong, especially if I have a bit of a $ buffer to fix any issues that I buy along with the car (which I do).

My question is this: Given the same uncertain maintenance records, and comparable price, I'm torn between a 2001 with 75k, and a 2004 with 150k. With the same mileage, I'd assume newer is better, but I don't know how much existing mileage cancels out the year difference. I'd also like to know how much changed, generationally, from 2003 to 2004; or to put it differently, how much the 2004 is a 2001 with the kinks worked out, and how much it's a new design.

Or do I really have to hold out for good/perfect maintenance records?

I'm aware that 04 has a new transmission, too - is it reliable like the previous one? and I believe I have to check for recalls with 04, right?

I'm also curious about low mileage 97-00 400 vs low mileage 01 430, but I'm not sure where to ask, since all the forums are model-dedicated.

Jbthompson

Hi there. Great questions. The LS is a great car. I have owned a 2002, 2001, a 98 LS400 and I am currently driving a 2001 Ultra LS430. I personally prefer the styling of the 04 and newer, I thinks it's very sharp and classy. However, I just couldn't justify the additional cost. The LS is an interesting car in that it has grown slowly over the years. Sitting an LS400 versus the 430 is a very similar experience. The buttons are in the same place, yet the car has matured and gotten larger and more modern over the years. I prefer the 430 over the 400. It feels newer and more substantial. My car is 13 years old but looks and drives like a much newer car which I appreciate.

Maintenance is key with these cars. Don't settle and find one that has been taken care of.

SaleenS7

04+ had the 6 speed transmission. Although it has the 'lifetime fluid' I'd replace it with fresh fluid and it should be as bulletproof as the engine. No worries there. The only major thing I'd be worried about is timing belt for the engine. Check to see it's been done. Although I haven't heard of any timing belt failures on the LS430, it's bound to happen if it's still on the original waterpump and belt.

Recalls have likely been taken care of by now.

Cosmetically the car is refreshed, it looks much more modern on the outside for 04'. The hood, fenders, front bumper, rear bumper and trunk are slightly different. Adaptive xenons headlamps, Full LED tail lights (minus the blinkers for some strange reason). Interior is basically the same but I understand they added a few options as standard in 2004 such as rear heated seats for example. 0-60 is also slightly faster due to the new transmission.

If the car looks good and it's priced good don't be afraid to pull the trigger. A PPI from the dealer is always a good idea, but not necessary if you have done this before. These cars aren't nightmares and they certainly don't hide problems. I won't write down what to look for here since it's pretty much self explanatory as with most other cars, but make sure everything works! If you have access to a lift look underneath. Check for any leaks.

This is also an interesting read if you have time:
http://www.newcartestdrive.com/revie...ound-interior/

airchomper

I was in the same situation - 2001 with 69k and 2004 with 150k.

I went with the 2001 and the only thing I regret is the Mark Levinson amp.

There are a few things around the edges that are better in the 2004 (lower control arm bushings, auto-unlock on the passenger door, 6 speed, and parking gear). But my 2001 base with a sunroof and ML audio is the best car I ever owned. Are there better cars out there? Absolutely. But they're probably the 2005/2006s - base.

It's hard to talk about these things without bringing value into the equation. 150k miles is a lot of time for stuff to be neglected. Frankly, I was miffed that my 2001 LS430 with full service records was in the condition it was in (broken fasteners in the engine bay, improperly torqued bolts, ect.) and that was only with 70k miles to go wrong. Without a doubt, the extra 70k miles of minimal maintenance would have taken its toll. And the 2004s have some teething issues on the transmission, so I think they're the LS430 with the most acute need for maintenance. And although there are tons of cases of the 6 speed transmissions going 200k miles with nothing - if you want to hit 250k miles with certainty, you need to have fresh fluid in there at 100k.

But if you're (as the kids these days say) ballin' on a budget we have to talk about the value of these cars. If I were one of these lucky ducks who get 2005s for less than 10k in excellent condition, I would have a 2005 rather than an '01. The 2004 even had some issues that the 2001s had - TSB for the steering wheel telescoping function comes to mind. It's a very annoying rattle.

But you want a quiet, comfortable, and high quality car and that's why your here.

A low mile LS430 is bound to wow. You can take the money you save and get the timing belt done, get some nice tires, get a nice head unit for the stereo, and get some fresh fluids in transmission, differential, and engine and you've got a car that's going to do another 100k on a timing belt and some fluids.

Personally, my vote is ball on a budget. Get good deal on a low miles 2001-2002 and spend the money you save investing in the car.

I don't know too much about the LS400s. They have some issues that we don't - ECU capacitor issues and coolant temperature issues come to mind although I'm not sure the LS430s safe from the coolant temperature sensor issues and I don't know whether the 1998-2000 LS400s suffer as badly as the 1990-1997s.

Between us two, if I found a good deal on a low-milage 2000 LS400, I'd have that car instead of my LS430. By most accounts, the LS430s are 'nicer' (quieter, better ride with the same rims, better electronics) and more modern. But the 2000 LS400s are the high water mark of Lexus quality. IF the LSs are the gold standard of quality, the 2006 LS430s and 2000 LS400s are the platinum standard. And the LS400s don't have the Mark Levinson audio issue - but they don't have in-dash CD changers, IIRC.

TLDR - the 2001 LS430 is great, the 2004 isn't that much better. The 2005/2006s are probably the ones that are a step better, but they're pricey. If you want the best bang for your buck, get an LS430 and put some time and money into it to get it back to the condition it left Tahara in. 2000 LS400s are the wild-card, if you can find a good low milage one with someone who wants to make a deal on it, that's the car to get. But those are Unicorns, especially in California.

Stu

so very true.

Every older LS is very inexpensive to buy now as a used car. But remember when it needs parts or service, you don't get a break on the price. You are fixing a luxury car that sold for $60,000 + when it was new 10 years ago, and the parts for sure, and labor ( if you go to Lexus) are a LOT more than the same part in a Camry !

Healfdane

Thanks for the replies.

People talk about LS400's going 400k, can 430's do that too? Or has it not been long enough for anyone to find out?

I'm getting a message that maintenance is more important than miles or year - does that mean a 150k with good maintenance is a better buy than half mileage with unknown maintenance? (assuming similar price) Or is it better to go with sub 100 because you can still remedy all the bad-maintenance problems?

I really, really love the black leather & wood interior on the 430's that have it. I assume that look is specific to 430's? I haven't seen it on other models. I originally was thinking of a 400 because I like the boxy exterior better, but then it occurred to me that I'll be inside the car most of the time, so the best interior is what I really should look for.

In terms of value, how much extra is it worth paying for an 05-06 with similar miles and maintenance over an 04?

warminwisc

The 05-06 is virtually the same car as the 04. They really are similar besides, 6 speed tranny WS fluid, steer into corner headlights(nice but not essential), smart access potential, and refreshed look in front back. Look for service history but if comparable I would take the LS with 75 k miles as they are so similar. 150k miles is still 150k miles even to an LS.

An 04 with 75 ki miles cost how much more than the 01 3500-4K?

2KHarrier

FWIW, I just purchased an 01' LS in Millenium Silver with the Black interior. It has 104K on it. I paid 7300 for it and it just had the TB completed in October. It does need brakes, and that was one of the negotiating points of the deal, as well as an inop tilit motor (easy fix) and a noisey sub woofer (another easy fix). So far, after 1 week, I'm pleased as punch!!

Healfdane

What I've found is more than that - I found an 04 that was $2k more than an 01, but with double the mileage - 150k vs 75k.

The sub-100 04's I've seen are all in the $16-17k range (as opposed to $10k for the 01)

lsdude

16-17k sounds high. I bought an 06 last year with 47k miles for $19.5k from an old lady going to a retirement home. Car was immaculate. Keep looking and I'm sure you'll run into better prices.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

Dealer and private owner prices are usually about 2 - 6 grand apart. I paid almost retail for my 04 UL from a Lexus dealer nearly two years ago. I paid $18.5 and the car had 104k miles. KBB had the car at just above that. About $20,000. This may seem a lot but as mentioned you get what you pay for when it comes to a well kept car. Prices have dropped but in my opinion the best time to get them is after the first TB/WP job. About 85k - 110k miles. 100k miles on a LS430 is nothing. Saves your $1400 immediately plus many times the car will have new Michelin tires and brakes as well as some other reconditioning like mine. That's like $2500 in just those 3 items not to mention the minor things. I have found Lexus dealers also tend to have a cream puff more often.

XJSFan

You do get what you pay for!

I have a 2006 LS 430 that had 77K miles when purchased last year and I paid $15,900... It had Lexus service records all the way up to when I purchased it. I would wait until you find the one that has all service records and save a few extra bucks up and purchase a 2006. Last year of a vehicle is always the best... LOL. You have to think that all the bugs are out by the last year of a model...

BradTank

The 2001 with half the mileage is probably a better value. The price difference between the model refresh is not worth it in my opinion, and the depreciation will hit harder when it comes time to sell if you get a 2004+. It's 99% the same car, the 6 speed transmission maybe adds 1-2mpgs (if that) and the GPS is a joke in this day in age. I have a 2004 and I like some of the subtle upgrades, but if I could say have gotten a 2001 with half the mileage for thousands less, I would likely go in that direction.

Age can be an issue, but 3 years is pretty negligible. I don't really see any additional problems on a 2001 vs 2004 that are age related if the mileage were the same. It would make a difference though if one car was garaged and one wasn't. You could have weatherstripping issues, paint issues, upholestery issues, etc.

The problem with 150k miles is, even a well maintained car at that mileage is probably going to need most of the suspension rebuilt. I would go in with that in mind. At 79k miles, I could easily see several years without any issues, but you may have a timing belt service coming up.

I would also buy on condition, not everyone takes care of their car.

Acura2Lex

iTrader: (1)

I've owned a 2002 Base LS430, 2001 Ultra Luxury LS430 and currently a 2005 Custom Luxury LS430. Go for the newer LS even if it has more miles. Just make sure it's been maintained properly. I never looked back from upgrading to my 2005 LS. More class, more style, more power, mpg roughly the same.

Acura2Lex

iTrader: (1)

It's a Lexus, don't let the miles scare you. My last car was a 2004 SC430 with a total of 220,000 original miles. Still ran strong when I sold it.