Coulter

There's always the dealership apologist that tries to make the case that every time a dealership over charges someone, they were completely in the right. In fact, they actually did the customer a favor!

$390 to change some fuses is highway robbery. And the Lexus dealer is not obligated to charge 3 hours any time a fuse blows,, I don't know why people keep insisting that it's some sort of "Lexus Law" that any fuse repair automatically means $400. Dealerships are completely independent to make common sense judgement calls. If someone has a dead battery, they don't charge $400 in labor costs to swap out the battery in order to diagnose all the wiring.

The mistake the original poster made was not getting an estimate up front, which is probably why they did what they did.

BradTank

My problem with your argument is blanket statements like "they ALL do it this way". I don't doubt your experience at YOUR dealership leads you to believe this, but my experience has been the complete opposite. And just because SOME dealerships operate this way does not mean they SHOULD operate this way.

An hour to diagnose a fuse blowing, an hour to install the fuses, and an hour to test the fuses is ripping someone off, especially considering they knew what the problem was when he walked in. I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this.

SW17LS

This is what you don't understand...a Lexus dealership does not decide what to bill per job like an independent mechanics shop does. Their services are blocked off in chunks, and they have a process they go through when completing a repair...they go through that process every time. You can't run a big business like a Lexus dealership that services as many as 100 cars every day the way an independent runs a much smaller scale business. Lexus provides a guideline of how many hours it takes to complete a certain repair for billing purposes. Alldata provides similar information to independent shops.

This is why its a bad idea to take an old Lexus to a Lexus dealership, the way they do business is designed around Lexus' warranty service policy...because the bulk of their business is newer, under warranty Lexus vehicles. That is Lexus' warranty policy...diagnose...replace...test. Why do you think everybody on the new forums ***** about the dealer always saying they "didn't experience the issue"...because what the customer says means nothing. The dealer has to experience the fault before Lexus will authorize a replacement. Notice...I keep saying replacement...the dealers replace things instead of repairing things. An example...the HVAC control on my old 2003 ES had a bulb burn out when it was under warranty. Lexus replaced the entire control panel because the bulbs "cannot be replaced". Bulb burned out recently (its still in the family)...my mechanic replaced the bulb. If they had taken it to Lexus they would have replaced the whole assembly again at an incredible cost.

You say he should have gotten an estimate before they did the work. How do you think they can give an estimate? BOOK RATES

I'm not apologizing for Lexus dealers. I have not paid $1 to a Lexus dealer for service in 5 years, I recommend that none of you do, I'm just explaining how it works. Complaining won't change anything, take your business elsewhere.

Anybody taking a 9 year old Lexus to a Lexus dealer for ANY repair and expecting to get out of there for less than $400 may as well expect it to rain diamonds. The two are about as likely.

I'm not saying how anybody should operate, just how they DO operate. Its not just Lexus, all dealerships work this way.

I'm not the only one saying this, people in this thread are agreeing with me. I'm glad you have had other experiences, but do you have 15 years worth of experiences spanning 5 Lexus vehicles? Do you have enough experience to refute what a 16 year veteran Lexus master tech says about how their service departments are run? Somehow you think you should be allowed to speak as an authority but I'm not?

Coulter

You seem to lack an understanding of what "book rate" actually is and are making some wild speculation.

Lexus (corporate) only gets involved in "book rate" repairs when it involves warranty work, because it's on Lexus' dime, and they're trying to make sure dealerships aren't pulling stunts like charging Lexus $390 to replace a fuse on a car. They don't want them milking warranty repairs.

Book rate is mainly to keep mechanics honest. If they were just paid hourly, it would take all day to change brake pads. It's both an incentive to be productive and way to estimate a customer repair.

But when a car is out of warranty, the dealership can make any arrangement they want regarding the time they want a technician to spend on a customer's car. There isn't some rule that every fuse replacement takes 3 hours or work or Lexus will shut down the dealership. Please show me the "book rate" that says all fuse replacements require 3 hours of diagnostic work.

A service advisor with two brain cells could have said to the tech "replace the fuses, don't do any further diagnostic repairs at this point" and given the car back to the customer with the understanding that if further problems persisted, he would have to come back and pay for diagnostic work but would only charge them for the fuses replaced. That's their job, to basically be a broker for repair work and come up with solutions.

SW17LS

Certainly they can make any arrangement...but they don't. They charge the book rate. There's no "rule" that says they have to do things this way...they just do because their practices are designed around servicing cars under warranty, since that is 90% of the dealer's service clientele. They treat a self pay out of warranty customers like they do all their other customers.

You keep arguing with me like I'm on the dealer's side...I'm not...I'm just telling you how they operate based on my experiences, and what I have been told by my mechanic friend who I have mentioned. I have said, repeatedly, that if you need a repair on an older Lexus that is out of warranty you should not take it to the Lexus dealer, because it will be expensive. How much clearer can I make that? I've owned Lexus cars with upwards of 200k miles on them, and I have had them repaired at Lexus dealers and independent shops. Take the example of my lower control arm replacement. The Lexus book says 12 hours labor. Every Lexus dealer's estimate is miraculously for...12 hours of labor...I called 5. My mechanic did it in 5 hours and charged me for 5. Why did every dealer quote me the exact same number of hours? Because thats the book rate. Do you think if the dealer quoted me 12...and it only took them 5 they would charge me for 5 not 12? I have a bridge to sell you then.

I understand the logic, but the service advisors do not direct the activities of the master tech, the master tech is in charge of determining what needs to be done, and carrying out the job based on Lexus' specifications. They inform the service advisor what needs to be done, not the other way around. They also have the dealership's liability policies to adhere to. They don't have the autonomy you assign to them, there is a protocol when dealing with an electrical fault like this, I promise you.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Coulter

Again, you're really making some strange claims.

A "master tech" is someone who's passed a certain number of ASE exams and worked a number of years, it's not the guy that calls all of the shots at a dealership, there's usually several technicians working that have that have the certification "master technician". It's not actually a "master" of the dealership that makes all the decisions.

A service advisor can ask for a specific repair at customer request, if the technician refuses, they can either work it out take it up with the service manager. But I would love to see the argument over wanting to charge $400 to replace some fuses because a customer put a battery in backwards. If a technician refused to replace a few fuses unless he got paid 3 full hours, he's not going to last long.

Again, there's no specific rule that a fuse replacement where the cause is known requires 3 hours of billable labor. If someone came in with a dead battery because they left their headlights on, the dealership doesn't require 3 hours of labor to check all other electronic systems.

If you've been told that, you've got shady people hiding behind made up protocol to try and justify ripping you off.

warminwisc

Unless you get a estimate before work is done buyer be wear dealer or independent. Really don't be afraid to walk or bargain, I have done it before it is only a car no contract. My LS I took to the dealer for a 75 dollar Mobil One O/C like 1 month ago. Last minute I asked for a tire rotation, no estimate bill was 133 dollars with rotation. No No No I told the Lexus service guy, dropped it down to 110. Everybody's got to hit there numbers, all of you included I am sure, just buyer be aware.

I had an old clunky dodge van, was missing took it to an indy, told the guy I needed estimate by 10 am(good practice in my book) called a couple times "havn't gotten to it yet" 3 o clock got a call "dodge is done 500 bucks" for a tune up. Told the guy I would pay 350 never went back learned my lesson that day again.

Had a wheel bearing go out on my old LS, 600 bucks called around told Yota I would pay 500 deal.

The fuses you might of said "OK which ones can I do myself, where I can drive out of here and get home". Then they might of swung a deal or ya get yur hands dirty. I feel for ya 400 bucks seems unfair, but gottas hit yur numbers.

SW17LS

You are taking what I'm saying 100% the wrong way. I am not saying that there is only one master tech, or that a "master tech" is in charge of the dealership. There is however a tech thats assigned to complete the work on each specific case, or customers vehicle. That tech makes determinations about what work needs or does not need to be done for that specific concern or vehicle, not the service advisor.

There's no rule...I never said that...I am just sharing my experience about how Lexus dealerships service departments are run based on my considerable experience doing business with them, and my relationships with people who have worked for them. Take it for whatever you want, take your older Lexus there if you want. I'm tired of arguing with you about statements you're assigning to me that I haven't even made.

You feel like my claims are strange because I am not making any of the claims you keep saying I am.

Nobody rips me off because I DONT USE THE DEALERSHIP. How many times do I have to say that? If you want to use the dealer, fine, but you are overpaying for your repair work on an older car by hundreds to thousands of dollars because of the way the dealership approaches servicing a vehicle vs how an independent approaches servicing a vehicle. Thats all I've ever been saying.

jimbosr1

time to put this thread to bed.

BradTank

To me, this is the perfect analogy of what happened and why I don't blame the OP for being upset.

The stealership was trying to say the only way they could fix an obvious and easy reapair was with hours of additional diagnostic work that the customer didn't need.

I'm done arguing about this, but there is no hard and fast rules that dealerships need to follow where every problem requires hours of additional troubleshooting in order to address.

SW17LS

I also agree that we should just let this go, but again to clarify, I never said there were any "rules" that said a dealership has to operate this way...I'm just saying that based on my experience and what I have been told by people that do in fact know from experience this is how they operate. You guys seem to think I'm defending them and I'm not, you just can't blame a dog for being a dog.

You can shake your fists at the sky and hope for something different...or you can just find a good independent mechanic and stop using the dealer, which is what I would suggest. The OP has every right to be upset, he paid a lot for something that didn't have to cost him a lot, but when he told the tow truck driver to take a 9 year old Lexus to the dealer he sealed his fate IMHO. Hopefully this will be the experience that makes him spend some time to find a trustworthy mechanic like I have.