You sound like me when I started looking last year. Some suggestions for your 04-06 search:

- Check the FAQ thread and follow the link to the sales brochures for the years you are interested in. The available interior and exterior color schemes can be found there.

- For silver cars in the Premium and Modern Luxury (ML) trim levels, the interior color choices were gray or black. It seemed that most were gray.

- Silver was the second most popular color behind black, so there are a number of cars out there. I suggest you make a tiered list of color choices: first choice (color, trim level, wheels, etc.), top colors, acceptable, and unacceptable. I set a 4 month search schedule and limited my first month search to first choice, added top colors the second month, acceptable colors in the third month, and other possible cars in the fourth month. I found my top choice at the start of the second month.

- Be sure you test drive cars with the regular and sport suspension. I test drove a car with sport suspension and z rated tires on a cold morning and it felt like a Flintstones-mobile. After driving a number of cars with the normal suspension, I decided I could forego the sport suspension. I have not regretted it.

- The sport suspension was only available on Premium (non-nav) and Modern Luxury trim levels. There were not very many made, so it may be hard to find one.

- Many dealers or private sellers don't know what the sport package is, so don't go by the wording in the ads. Some think any car with 18" wheels has the sport package. Look at the pictures for the badge on the front fender behind the wheel opening.

- The Mark Levinson 11 speaker sound system and nav are a single unit - they come together in the ML, CL, and UL trim levels. The base (very rare) and Premium trim levels have no nav and the standard 7 speaker premium sound system.

- SmartAccess was an option on the Premium, ML, and UL trim levels, but I've never seen a car without it.

Good luck in your search and plan on spending a few months with at least a 200 mile search radius. I searched nationally to find my Flint Mica CL with 30K miles.

 

Thanks for the info.
I did see the FAQ with the sales brochures.
What would be an interesting addition to that, which I haven't found, is production numbers broken down by year, color, etc...
I suppose they figure if I'm that picky, I can just go customize a new one.

In comparing the 01 Sport vs the others, under normal driving circumstances I couldn't really tell much of a difference.
Where I could notice a difference is in the tires.
I drove an 03 non-sport last week and it had the OEM Dunlop 5000 sport tires on it. I thought it rode very rough.

The 01 sport and silver/black 04 non-sport I drove both had the Michelin Primacy tires and they were wonderful.

Regarding tire size, I didn't realize the sport option from 01-03 had the 17" tires while the 04+ sport option had big 245-45 tires.
That's the tire size on my mustang and it is very rough. There's no way I'd want that size tire on the LS. I'm sure it probably cuts down on mileage as well, having all that rubber on the road.

 

Wow what action. First to qulaify my decision would be FWD or RWD. I drove the LS compared to the Avalon and just laughed but it is good on gas. If you go TL get the AWD steering system. My LS is fine in snow. You can get a decent lower mile car for the money, I got an 09 Camry hybrid with 10 k for 19 g's for the wife. I still get up on the weekend and just go for drives for the fun of it as it is such a joy to driven ,not in the Camry. Did you check out the 325, Ix especially. there are a ton of those around and can be gtten pretty nicely for 17 k or so and good gas mileage and relaibility. I paid 17 k for my 04 2 years ago with 55k, premium smartkey no nav. Best car buy I ever made.

Avalon touring is like a rental car avalon (jarring ride plain interior I thought), check out the XLS or limited if you must but I would got the Acura 2nd choice.

 

Also my t belt was 650 bucks with pump and serp belt. It is safe to buy on autotrader from private parrty as you can look the owner in the ey, check out recipts and call his garage for best deals, with few surprises. I drove an 05 with 245/45/18 tires and it was fine.

 

I have to second Warm's suggestion on the 3 series, or any BMW sedan for that matter. If it's refinement and quality that you are looking for (like I did) then there are plenty of nice choices for your price range. Here are just a few other suggestions, since the answers here will mostly be biased towards the LS (this is an LS forum after all)

1) 2001 BMW 740i/il. An excellent alternative to the LS. It should have that same feeling of high end build quality and luxury. Look at the last ones built, as they normally tend to be most reliable with earlier problems fixed. It puts a similar amount of hp and is likely more agile to drive than the LS is (though probably not as smooth riding). I recently took a look and found the really clean examples with less than 50k miles to be around your budget range. Check it out, I really like those things.

2) 2002-2003 BMW 540/530/525. If you know the BMW range, then you know that these are a listing 5 series in order of descending engine sizes. The 540 is pretty much a rocketship, will outpace most things on the road. 525 is the least powerful, but should net the best gas mileage. A really good example is definitely in your price range. Again, these are end of the cycle models, so they should be pretty reliable. I personally like the E39 styling much more than the E60 styling that replaced it.

3) 2004+ BMW 3 series. Take your pic, I have seen some of the newer 06-07s go for 15k or so. These are the most popular BMWs sold and there's a good reason for that: they are fantastic to drive. I personally had a 3 and thought it was tremendous fun to drive. Manuals are pretty easy to find (if you want to continue with stick). There is much less space in the 3 than the LS though. Headroom was pretty limited in the 3 (I am 6 ft). I really like how roomy the LS is. If you're really convincing to your wife, you can pick up a late 90s E36 M3 sedan mint, for 10 grand or so...just a thought

Of course, there are many other luxo cars you can look at from Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, etc. I am personally a huge BMW fan. I have had 2 in the past and had excellent experiences with both. One word of warning, if you pick up a newer 3 series (2006+) with a manual, make sure that you can shift smoothly with the A/C on. I got rid of the 3 mainly b/c with A/C on, the revs dropped faster than the speed of light and there was no way I could get any smooth shifting unless I double clutched it everywhere (which I never really mastered). The only alternative was to shut the A/C off and drive with the windows down, which was extremely unbearable in the summer heat. I also notice that the stick in my older 5 series was much more consistent than the one in my newer 3. Now, don't let what I said scare you at all. Like I said, despite those problems I still remain a huge BMW fan, which means that the good outweighed the bad. There really is a special sense in the driving experience, with excellent steering feel/weight and flat cornering that isn't found in most other cars.

Out of the suggested cars, I would probably go with a 5 series with a smaller engine since fuel economy is a consideration for you. It is bigger than the 3 (probably Acura TL-ish in room...?) and more luxurious/refined. I drove a 09 535i and was blown away by how good of a car it was to drive (that was actually the turning point where I started to want a big luxo car).

Lastly, don't be alarmed by all the negative press german makers have gotten for being unreliable. None of the BMWs I've had or driven has ever broken down. Mercedes has been criticized for their unreliability, so I would be a bit weary of them. Audi is a bit notorious (in my mind anyways) for having electronic/computer failures. My friend with an A4 usually has 1-2 major electrical breakdowns each year...and he hardly ever drives (I think he told me he lets it sit for weeks at a time lol). I personally think BMW has done a good job in these departments. Their emphasis is much more on the driving experience, rather than electronics and gadgets in a car.

I want to apologize to anyone who disliked my review. I know that this is a Lexus forum, but underneath we are just car enthusiasts right? I still say the LS if you're looking for unmatched smoothness, refinement, build quality, and a good drive.

 

Car guy, I drove 2010 535i at a drive for cancer fundraiser at a big dealer in town. I liked the 535I alot also. Audi A6 is pretty reliable as Audi's go but the A8L was probably the car I would buy if it was as reliable as my LS. Stang why do you not like the mustang?

 

Ah yes the A8s are incredible cars! Any time I see one I always think "that is such a nice car!". However, due to some reliability issues and a significantly higher price for a low mileage CPO model, I passed over it (doesn't help I saw the transporter 2 and 3 not too long ago...god the A8 is a pretty thing). I think OP needs more room, he said something about kids in the back. I suppose if I ever had a family down the road, I would invest in a cheap wagon/van/suv and lug them around in that...instead of my fav car.

 

I like it, but my wife can't drive stick, I can't take the 3 kids in it (only 2 back seats), and it's pretty bad on rainy roads and of course snow.

 

I drove an auto. Most of the BMWs sold in the states are autos (much like every auto maker Lotus aside). I have never had a problem in rainy weather with any BMW. It will go sideways, but only if you really really push it (like the empty wet road i was on at midnight, tight right hander at 40 followed by a big powerslide). Every car is tricky in the snow if you aren't careful with it. RWD is tricky in the snow, but far more fun IMO and makes you a sharper driver with good car control. Keep in mind that FWD will just keep on going in a straight line if you corner too quickly. I am from MI (where winter = Nov-Apr, sometimes May) so I have been driving in this stuff ever since driver's ed (like 5-6 yrs ago for me). I have had both FWD (the Lincoln in my sig) and RWD (the 2 BMWs). None of those cars had snow tires on, which forced me to be even more careful. Remember, we are still talking about 200-300hp luxo sedans, not 400+hp supercars. These are built so that the avg driver can get in and drive with no issues.

That being said, if you're wife wasn't interested with any of my suggestions, then it's probably not gonna happen. If you wanted a good FWD car, then I would suggest Acura, Audi, Saab, Volvo and stay away from RWD all together if you don't think RWD is appropriate for your situation. Better yet, search for something with AWD. Subaru/Mitsubishi is a good place to start as they are renown for their ability to perform on rally circuits. Volvo is known for safety (I've driven an S80 before and felt it was very nicely made). Maybe an SUV is the answer for you. Sure you sacrifice some MPGs, but they do have the highest ground clearance and AWD to get you going in deep snow and tricky roads. Also, in case you were to crash, being in a big car that sits high is better than being in a car that sits lower. I know from experience...someone recently rear ended me (yes the beautiful LS...) in a parking lot. Driver wasn't paying attention and bam. He had a 90s Jeep Grand Cherokee. There was no visible damage to his car, but the corner of my rear bumper is destroyed with paint peeling and the plastic structure bent at one side.

Just my .02

EDIT: I just reread your post as a response to warm's question. Oops, I thought you were talking about the 535i. Ah well I might as well keep this one if RWD is a factor.

 

After 6 months of ownership with my 01 LS430 with now over 100k, not one problem other than replacing a few tail light bulbs. The Nav works flawlessly and with ease. The ML sound system is a weak area. It works but there are numerous systems out there that are far superior. Most speakers on the older cars will need refoaming and the amps are known to fail on some cars. It's amazing that I have a 10 year old used car that has no issues or problems (Knock on wood). I'm very pleased with my purchase.

 

I own an '04 LS430 with the Australian version of the UL-spec. - all the UL options,the sport package suspension,and the 18" 5 spoked wheels.

The 245/45/R18 tyre on the 18x7.5" wheel package is anything but harsh. We don't have very good roads here in Sydney,and the ride is still nice and smooth. I upgraded to a wider 18" wheel on my car today,as I personally found the soft response of the standard combo too indirect for my liking. Next year I'll be going up to 19" or 20" wheels to get more tyre under the car and a more VIP-esque look.

I've only owned the car for a month now,but I couldnt be happier with it.

I don't know what the current American version of the Avalon is like,but if it's anything like the 2005 models that we got here,it's a chalk and cheese comparison. You may as well be comparing a hyundai accent to an accord euro.


Justin...

 

In the US spec cars, the sport package suspension was not available on UL and CL trim levels. The UL had the air suspension. 18" wheels were standard on the sport package and optional otherwise.

 

1. No problems with Nav system - I use backup copies of the Nav DVDs and self-installed a VAISTech SL2Vi.

2. I haven't heard stock LS430 stereo. Regarding the ML system, the review at http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/...6/article.html states that the 2002 LS430 ML system was the best factory system they have ever heard. It sounds pretty good to me and I would not want an LS430 without the ML system.

 

No Lexus in Australia has ever been offered with Air suspension. We get everything else though.

Thanks for the info on the other specs.


Justin...

 

I thought I read that you can't use pc disk copying tools to make a backup copy of the nav dvd - or did you buy an extra used dvd?