04-06 Sealed Transmission fluid change interval? (The Mother thread)
07-01-14, 05:54 AM
#196
"Severe" is clearly defined in the manual, as is the term "sealed transmission" and the dealership's refusal to performe a change. Furthermore, the previous post clearly stated that Asin designed the transmission to be serviced; this, to, seems to be clearly stated according to the previous post. Proof of this would be helpful, because given these facts all put together, Asin designed the transmission to be replaced only for "severe" conditions; as the manual states. Therefore the deslarships's refusal, the manual's "lifetime" / "severe" terminology, and Asin would all be in sgreement. But if someone on here has proof that Asin intended the transmission fluid to be changed "regularly" as some here suggest, it would be helpful if proof could be provided.
07-01-14, 05:57 AM
#197
P.S. I'm going to have to re-read the definition of "severe" in the owners manual, and try to figure out why many dealerships have a different definition.
07-01-14, 06:32 AM
#198
The first proof is in the transmission itself. There is nothing sealed about it and it is not the proper technical name of the unit. It lacks a dipstick. The fill and drain holes enable the technician to add the required fluid whether just performing a simple drain and refill. 2-3 quarts. Or when fixing / replacing the transmission. Up to 9 quarts. There are detailed technical instructions on how to get the car to temperature, etc. Dropping the pan to replacing the unit, a drain and refill, the fluid goes in at the same place.
Second, the lab tests done on the fluid at around 100k show a reduction of up to 85% of various clutch pack additives, reduced viscosity, and added metal content from wear. In other words, the fluid had about 30% of the original additives left. Also, the clutches wearing is what causes the fluid to dirty or turn color. What helps them wear less is the special additives in the fluid. It's only logical to keep this fluid in ideal condition.
Third, general information known about transmissions and what almost every other Lexus dealer is doing. Why yours is doing this is beyond me. Probably worried about liability alone... Most Lexus dealers do the drain and refill. Some have the very expensive flushing machine.
Call around and you will see. This is the same story on the ls460, BMW, and a few other manufacturers. They can get away with this because by far majority of first owners will not keep the vehicle but only 3-5 years.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 07-01-14 at 06:39 AM.
07-01-14, 02:05 PM
#200
My proof is below.
The first proof is in the transmission itself. There is nothing sealed about it and it is not the proper technical name of the unit. It lacks a dipstick. The fill and drain holes enable the technician to add the required fluid whether just performing a simple drain and refill. 2-3 quarts. Or when fixing / replacing the transmission. Up to 9 quarts. There are detailed technical instructions on how to get the car to temperature, etc. Dropping the pan to replacing the unit, a drain and refill, the fluid goes in at the same place.
Second, the lab tests done on the fluid at around 100k show a reduction of up to 85% of various clutch pack additives, reduced viscosity, and added metal content from wear. In other words, the fluid had about 30% of the original additives left. Also, the clutches wearing is what causes the fluid to dirty or turn color. What helps them wear less is the special additives in the fluid. It's only logical to keep this fluid in ideal condition.
Third, general information known about transmissions and what almost every other Lexus dealer is doing. Why yours is doing this is beyond me. Probably worried about liability alone... Most Lexus dealers do the drain and refill. Some have the very expensive flushing machine.
Call around and you will see. This is the same story on the ls460, BMW, and a few other manufacturers. They can get away with this because by far majority of first owners will not keep the vehicle but only 3-5 years.
The first proof is in the transmission itself. There is nothing sealed about it and it is not the proper technical name of the unit. It lacks a dipstick. The fill and drain holes enable the technician to add the required fluid whether just performing a simple drain and refill. 2-3 quarts. Or when fixing / replacing the transmission. Up to 9 quarts. There are detailed technical instructions on how to get the car to temperature, etc. Dropping the pan to replacing the unit, a drain and refill, the fluid goes in at the same place.
Second, the lab tests done on the fluid at around 100k show a reduction of up to 85% of various clutch pack additives, reduced viscosity, and added metal content from wear. In other words, the fluid had about 30% of the original additives left. Also, the clutches wearing is what causes the fluid to dirty or turn color. What helps them wear less is the special additives in the fluid. It's only logical to keep this fluid in ideal condition.
Third, general information known about transmissions and what almost every other Lexus dealer is doing. Why yours is doing this is beyond me. Probably worried about liability alone... Most Lexus dealers do the drain and refill. Some have the very expensive flushing machine.
Call around and you will see. This is the same story on the ls460, BMW, and a few other manufacturers. They can get away with this because by far majority of first owners will not keep the vehicle but only 3-5 years.
100 Percent in agreement with this. I change mine every 45-50k. Period. I also plan on keeping my Lexus for a long time.....
i cant believe this thread is still gooooing.
07-06-14, 08:48 PM
#202
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I had my transmission guy drop my pan and service it for around $155. I did this at 100k and he said it definitely needed it. He also stated that it was tricky putting in the right amount of fluid to refill. It's worth it, I noticed it shifting smoother right away.
07-22-14, 03:28 PM
#203
The following bellowis the procedure I copied from the service manual:
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID
ADJUSTMENT
1. BEFORE TRANSMISSION FILL
_ This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
_ It is necessary to refill the transmission with the correct
amount of fluid.
_ The vehicle must remain level while adjusting fluid level.
2. TRANSMISSION PAN FILL
(a) Remove the two bolts and transmission case cover.
(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.
(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins
to trickle out of the overflow tube.
(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.
3. TRANSMISSION FILL
(a) Fill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid as
listed in the table below.
(b) Reinstall the refill plug to avoid fluid splash.
Performed Repair Fill Amount
Transmission pan and drain plug removal
1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
HINT:
If you cannot add the listed amount of fluid, do the following:
(1) Install the refill plug.
(2) Allow the engine to idle with air conditioning OFF.
(3) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
fluid.
(4) Wait for 30 seconds with the engine idling.
(5) Stop the engine.
(6) Remove the refill plug and add fluid.
(7) Reinstall the refill plug.
4. FLUID CIRCULATION
(a) Allow the engine to idle with the air conditioning OFF.
(b) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
the fluid.
5. FLUID TEMPERATURE CHECK
NOTICE:
_ On vehicles equipped with air suspension, perform
step (c) if it necessary to jack up the vehicle while the
engine running.
_ The fluid temperature should be less than 30_C (86_F)
before beginning the fluid temperature check.
(a) With hand-held tester
(1) Connect the hand-held tester to the DLC3.
(2) Select the tester menus: OBD/MOBD, ENGINE,
DATA LIST and A/T.
(3) Check A/T OIL TEMP.
(4) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(b) Without hand-held tester (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4) and TC (13) of
the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D every 1.5 seconds for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator will come on again when the
fluid temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will
blink when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle unit the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(c) For vehicles with air suspension (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4), OPA (11) and
TC (13) of the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
Terminal OPA is connected to prevent air suspension
height adjustment from occurring when the vehicle
is lifted off the ground with the engine running.
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D at 1.5 seconds interval for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator comes on again when the fluid
temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will blink
when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
6. FLUID LEVEL CHECK
NOTICE:
The fluid temperature must be between 46_C (115_F) and
56_C (130_F) to accurately check the fluid level.
(a) Remove the overflow plug with the engine idling.
(b) Check that the fluid comes out of the overflow tube.
_ If fluid does not come out, proceed to step 7
_ If fluid comes out, wait until the over-flow slows to
a trickle and proceed to step 8.
7. TRANSMISSION REFILL
(a) Install the overflow plug.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Remove the refill plug.
(d) Add 0.4 liters (0.42 US qts, 0.35 Imp. qts) of fluid.
(e) Allow the engine to idle and wait for 10 seconds.
(f) Proceed to step 6.
8. COMPLETE
(a) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Install the refill plug with a new gasket.
(d) Install the transmission case cover with the two bolts.
Torque:
20 Nm (205 kgfcm, 15 ftlbf) for overflow plug
39 Nm (400 kgfcm, 29 ftlbf) for refill plug
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID
ADJUSTMENT
1. BEFORE TRANSMISSION FILL
_ This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
_ It is necessary to refill the transmission with the correct
amount of fluid.
_ The vehicle must remain level while adjusting fluid level.
2. TRANSMISSION PAN FILL
(a) Remove the two bolts and transmission case cover.
(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.
(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins
to trickle out of the overflow tube.
(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.
3. TRANSMISSION FILL
(a) Fill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid as
listed in the table below.
(b) Reinstall the refill plug to avoid fluid splash.
Performed Repair Fill Amount
Transmission pan and drain plug removal
1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
HINT:
If you cannot add the listed amount of fluid, do the following:
(1) Install the refill plug.
(2) Allow the engine to idle with air conditioning OFF.
(3) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
fluid.
(4) Wait for 30 seconds with the engine idling.
(5) Stop the engine.
(6) Remove the refill plug and add fluid.
(7) Reinstall the refill plug.
4. FLUID CIRCULATION
(a) Allow the engine to idle with the air conditioning OFF.
(b) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
the fluid.
5. FLUID TEMPERATURE CHECK
NOTICE:
_ On vehicles equipped with air suspension, perform
step (c) if it necessary to jack up the vehicle while the
engine running.
_ The fluid temperature should be less than 30_C (86_F)
before beginning the fluid temperature check.
(a) With hand-held tester
(1) Connect the hand-held tester to the DLC3.
(2) Select the tester menus: OBD/MOBD, ENGINE,
DATA LIST and A/T.
(3) Check A/T OIL TEMP.
(4) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(b) Without hand-held tester (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4) and TC (13) of
the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D every 1.5 seconds for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator will come on again when the
fluid temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will
blink when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle unit the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(c) For vehicles with air suspension (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4), OPA (11) and
TC (13) of the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
Terminal OPA is connected to prevent air suspension
height adjustment from occurring when the vehicle
is lifted off the ground with the engine running.
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D at 1.5 seconds interval for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator comes on again when the fluid
temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will blink
when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
6. FLUID LEVEL CHECK
NOTICE:
The fluid temperature must be between 46_C (115_F) and
56_C (130_F) to accurately check the fluid level.
(a) Remove the overflow plug with the engine idling.
(b) Check that the fluid comes out of the overflow tube.
_ If fluid does not come out, proceed to step 7
_ If fluid comes out, wait until the over-flow slows to
a trickle and proceed to step 8.
7. TRANSMISSION REFILL
(a) Install the overflow plug.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Remove the refill plug.
(d) Add 0.4 liters (0.42 US qts, 0.35 Imp. qts) of fluid.
(e) Allow the engine to idle and wait for 10 seconds.
(f) Proceed to step 6.
8. COMPLETE
(a) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Install the refill plug with a new gasket.
(d) Install the transmission case cover with the two bolts.
Torque:
20 Nm (205 kgfcm, 15 ftlbf) for overflow plug
39 Nm (400 kgfcm, 29 ftlbf) for refill plug
07-22-14, 04:06 PM
#204
It is important but if you are able to refill the amount you removed it should not be an issue. The 2nd half is really if she is acting like she is full but is not. There is very little room to work with. Also, you need to pump the new fluid in. Disable the air suspension (fuse) if you are working on a UL off the ground.
07-23-14, 07:17 AM
#205
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Which fuse please
It is important but if you are able to refill the amount you removed it should not be an issue. The 2nd half is really if she is acting like she is full but is not. There is very little room to work with. Also, you need to pump the new fluid in. Disable the air suspension (fuse) if you are working on a UL off the ground.
I understand there are several fuses related to the air suspension.
Could you describe which one?
Also, does this disable also apply when changing suspension to mechanical?
Thanks for the info,
Alan
07-23-14, 10:56 AM
#206
Pull the fuse for the compressor. I don't know which one it is but I know it's there somewhere.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...n-infos-9.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...n-infos-9.html
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 07-23-14 at 11:00 AM.
10-04-14, 09:32 AM
#208
So this morning I decided to drain and fill my trans with 177,000 miles. I get the car up on a lift and see signs of a leak in pic 1.
Decide to continue with the procedure and drain out less than 2 quarts which was brown but no burn smell and no particles. I refilled with the same amount of new WS fluid but now I'm wondering how much fluid leaked out? Should more than 2 have been drained and how would I check the proper amount with no dipstick as well as the appearance on only one fill hole. The lower one seems to not be removable in pic 2 which has the plastic cover removed, looking up at the fill hole.
Any suggestions?
A few pictures are provided below.
Decide to continue with the procedure and drain out less than 2 quarts which was brown but no burn smell and no particles. I refilled with the same amount of new WS fluid but now I'm wondering how much fluid leaked out? Should more than 2 have been drained and how would I check the proper amount with no dipstick as well as the appearance on only one fill hole. The lower one seems to not be removable in pic 2 which has the plastic cover removed, looking up at the fill hole.
Any suggestions?
A few pictures are provided below.
10-04-14, 02:29 PM
#209
Sure. Maybe add 1/3 of a quart. It's better to be a little over then be a little under. The procedure to check the level is right above too.
Thanks for showing everybody the fluid. You can see the condition. Not terrible but not the good either.
Thanks for showing everybody the fluid. You can see the condition. Not terrible but not the good either.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 10-04-14 at 02:59 PM.
10-04-14, 09:23 PM
#210
8. COMPLETE
(a) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Install the refill plug with a new gasket.
In my photo the lower hole seems sealed. So it seems logical that the upper hole is the refill and the lower hole is the overflow hole. You'd pump fluid in the top hole until it seeps out of the lower hole. I can't get that plug out to have any fluid seep out so I could easily overfill.
In step 6b, where is the overflow tube?
Could it be 35104 in the diagram? Listed as: PLUG, AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION CASE NO.1
This bolt is not under the plastic cover.
Also 35141B is listed as PLUG (FOR AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION CASE)
Last edited by chunkyda; 10-04-14 at 10:16 PM. Reason: added Sewell digram