S55inPA

hi everyone,

i went to my local dealer(MB, Lexus,Volvo,Toyota,Acura,Cadillac,Honda,Mitsu,GMC,Chrysler,Hyundai,) and picked up a bunch of 04 brochures on Lexus and MB.
one thing that seems to be missing from the Lexus brochures is how much "high
strength steel" is used in their automobiles. i mention this because in the MB brochures
it mentions that over 50% of the weight of their vehicles(new E) is made of high strenght
steel.

also i stopped by the MB service department to ask for a part number. we talked about
cars for a bit. i brought up how the japanese vehicles seem to have less service issues
and they pointed out that the lexus service department has a full time engine rebuilder
because of the amount of engine failures that Lexus auto's experience. they blame it mainly
on sludging in the engine. i know that toyota had similiar problems with their sienna vans, and
that the V6 engines used in the pickups and suv's had major head gasket problems but i
was unaware about sludging in the Lexus V8's. has anyone here experience such a problem?

also let me add this....i didn't post this to incite anyone. i sold my S55 and in the next 9 months
will most likely replace it. Lexus is on my shopping list. it's a shame that the GS hasn't been
overhauled because that is more to my liking.

SRK

A full time engine rebuilder? Really. Ask to meet the guy, and ask him how the exhuast cam is driven in the 1UZ-FE engine. Ask him how Lexus makes the drive so silent. He probably won't know. I certainly didn't until I read the manual. They use a spring loaded double gear, like a naval gun elevating system, to eliminate backlash. If he has rebuilt these engines he will know.
I have talked to many Lexus techs. None of them have ever rebuilt a Lexus engine. Mind you, the Toyota V-6 used in the ES300 has a habit of blowing head gaskets, but the V-8 engine has no known failure points worth mentioning.
If it is sludging, then it is a service and not a design issue. Any engine will be destroyed without lubrication. But my experience is that the crankcase vent system on the V-8 is outstanding, and that the oil stays very clean as a result. One would have to truly ignore the engine for years without an oil change to cause sludging.

bluestar

S55:

Sad to hear that you sold your S55 after so short a stint. I recall reading here when you were researching your new car. BUT, the 2005 GS is almost here. Expect to see a preview at next year spring's NY auto show. Lexus has said they plan to follow a family design which *may* be based on their HPX concept.

The first of this is the 2005 GS. Think you'll like it ?

lex400sc

Sorry but that dealership employee was full of *****. There is no sludge issue with the 1UZ-FE or 2UZ-FE. It is a bulletproof motor. Look on ebay, right now there is an SC400 with 325,000 original miles and no rebuild or overhaul work. Search the CL forums for any sludge issues and you'll come up with nothing. I also know a few dealership service depts, and there is no "full time engine rebuilder". He'd be sleeping in the lunchroom all day everyday if he existed. Go to an independent and find the head engine mechanic. Ask him what he thinks about Lexus V8s. I swear I only hear that they are bulletproof for at least 400,000 miles with standard scheduled maintenance (basically just oil changes every 5,000 miles) and no rebuilding required. My V8 is only at 80,000, but all I've done is routine oil changes and new spark plugs at 60,000. The Toyota Sienna sludge problem I believe was a tranny sludging problem back in 2000 (?) and is unique to that car alone. Don't discount Lexus reliability, it's been top of the food chain since the inception of Lexus in 1989.

mooretorque

S55, to clarify a bit, the T/L corporate 3.0 L V6 has had some sludging/oil gelling issues (though I hadn't heard about head gasket failures). Though generally a problem attributable to poor maintainence, a number of posters over on the Edmunds board (when the issue was first really surfacing) were adamant that they had faithfully changed oil according to T/L recommendations. To make a long story short, T/L has now warrantied ALL of their 3.0 L V6 motors for 8 years/unlimited mileage from the date of original purchase (regardless of current owner) for sludge related damage or failure. In order for the warranty to apply, they request that the owner at least show they've changed the oil once a year!!!!! End of engine controversy.

As far as Lexus V8s, I've been a Lexus owner since 1991 and can likewise attest to the durability and longevity of the V8. Stories of 200k+ mileage V8s with no problems are actually quite common. My closest friend (another physician) has a 91 LS with 250k miles on it which they just passed on to their 16 y/o son last year. And there are NO fulltime engine rebuilders at my dealership.

I think MB, esp, felt the pinch when the LS was introduced in 1989. At $35-$38k, it was literally tens of thousands of dollars less than an S-class and had a sales/service experience like nothing previously seen on the planet. Tired of snotty dealerships, incremental annual improvements tied to elevated pricetags, and a percieved disdain by MB for what customers might WANT (as opposed to what MB engineers felt they should GET), owners/buyers headed for Lexus dealerships and many never again darkened the door of their local MB dealer. There is STILL a lot of bad feeling as a result.

So, welcome to CL. There's an updated LS for 04 and there'll be a 3rd gen GS for 05. Might be worth a look!!

LuvLuxury

s55, If you don't mind...Why did you sell your AMG??? I love Lexus to the heart, but I cannot help but stare at the S55's S600's ect....What was your inital reaction to the car? I amvery curious.

Thanks

LL

S55inPA

hey everyone,

tomorrow i am going back to my local dealer. my ml500 is getting a new set of tires. i'll ask them
again about the engine rebuilder. the service manager that made the comment on the engine problems actually drives an acura so i wouldn't think he is biased against lexus. i dig a little deeper and come
up with more info.

as for selling my 02S55 there are several reasons....1st...put my house up for sale and i am going to
start building a new one in march or april of next year. the house is supposed to take about 8 months
to build. my house now has a very good chance of selling very quickly. that would leave me with 3 vehicles and one garage(i plan on renting a home). i figured if i put the car in storage i would not use
it much and also incur the cost of insurance, storage, and depreciation(new S coming in 05). plus i live in the northeast and my S wouldn't move all winter long. so selling now seemed to be the best thing. one thing i learned when it comes to high end cars is that the resale market is so small it makes selling them
on your own very difficult. so next time i buy it will be a car that is more moderate in price. i like to turn my personal vehicles over every 2 years so buying such expensive vehicles can be a very expensive proposition. i figure my next vehicle to be either a new LS, GS, E500,or even maybe an Acura. i really
like the new TL and i'm very curious what Acura is going to do with next generation RL. i really
like the changes made to the 03 LS and i'm very anxious to see one in person. i wish the new GS would apppear because i've got to think that Lexus is going to drop a bomb on everyone with an outstanding
performing car.

kbconv

I'd be pretty surprised to find an engine builder at any corporate auto "service" center. They just order assemblies and bolt them together. Bad valves, order a new head, slap it on. Break a piston ring or score a cylinder, order a new short block and away you go.

Shops nowadays do not do basic repair work. That's for independent mechanics and backyard DIY'ers. For one, they can't take a chance on rebuilding the component and then have a failure due to sloppy machine work. Then they get to fix it right for free the next time. Also, at the $80-100 hourly rates it make sense overall financially to just buy the assembly. So I say no just for this reason.

Also, the parts that come off the factory production lines have pretty good tolerences and are assembled correctly (some brands more than other). So you get darn good parts from them rather than whoever they would farm the work out to. Try to find a machine shop at any dealer, it's just not going to happen. Your doing good if you can even get them to turn your rotors. (And this would again cost an arm and a leg, so I have them done where ever I like).

Shops just don't rebuild anything much anymore. Tell him we enjoyed the story. In fact, as him to see their well stocked machine shop.

Just like in the computer field, no-one does board level repair in the field anymore, and I work on large systems. The previous generation did, but no more. Now it's FRU's. Field Replacement Units. Pull one out, slap another in. Send it back and let someone else fix it if it's worth it.

Just for fun, John

vraa

iTrader: (2)

Good job trading in that AMG!

VVT-i

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S55inPA
[B]hey everyone,

tomorrow i am going back to my local dealer. my ml500 is getting a new set of tires. i'll ask them
again about the engine rebuilder. the service manager that made the comment on the engine problems actually drives an acura so i wouldn't think he is biased against lexus.
LOL. the manager at MB's driving an Acura. If I'm a service manager at MB, I want an AMG or a new S-class as my demo.
Lexus got a slude problem on the V-6 engines fromt the 98-01 ES and RX because the owner dont' take care of their cars. After 40K miles with 1 oil change, comon....
I'm a Lexus tech for 6 years and I know some of the tech that work at Lexus for 12 years since 1990. If we have to do the engine on the V-8, I don't care if it's just remove and replace or an overhaul, I can tell you right now....nobody know how to do it. They have to go get the Repair Manual, read it and do the work page by page .
Last year I got a 94 LS400 with overheated problem. The car ran until its quits. Tow in, I found out that the lower radiator hose was disconnected, due to an aftermarket radiator was installed by some independent shop. The LS loose all the coolant and overheated until the engine shut off by the ECM. Reinstalled the lower radiator hose, filled with coolant and send her on the road.

S55inPA

hey guys,

went back to my dealer to pick up my ML.
i asked my service rep again about the Lexus engine problems.
he held firm saying that cars from 3 to 4 years old were having
consistant engine work done. he said sludging was the main
culprit. i told him that i post at a web site about Lexus autos and
there were no reported problems with the owners. then he said
Lexus owners like to think there cars don't ever break down(denial). he also
said that he would find out more details for me so i would not look like
i was crazy. so i'm waiting for him to email me with some more details.
like i said before i don't think he's saying this out of a bias against Lexus.
my local dealer carries something like 15 brands and it's not uncommon
for service reps to be moved from brand to another. .......

ok different topic.....there are some new photos of the 04 LS posted
on CL. i like the changes. it seems a lot people don't care for the 18"
wheels. i think they make the car look a lot sportier. i even like the
gold color. i'm curious with the economy not being red hot if Lexus
dealers are going to discount them or will they try to move them close
to MSRP?