2000LS400 High Copper in Oil Sample
06-01-18, 03:20 PM
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2000LS400 High Copper in Oil Sample
Need some guidance, my last two oil sample analysis' from Blackstone Labs show high levels of Copper and Iron, 14 ppm detected v. 4 ppm
average copper and 13 ppm detected v. 7 ppm average iron. I'm wondering if there is someway to determine if it's a top or bottom end problem.
Using my stethoscope, the valve train on the front, passenger side sounds louder than the rest. If it turns out to be a valve train issue, what sort
of can of worms am I opening up? It's time for the second timing belt with 177K miles. So, the question is whether it's time to bail and look for
something newer or patch it together?
average copper and 13 ppm detected v. 7 ppm average iron. I'm wondering if there is someway to determine if it's a top or bottom end problem.
Using my stethoscope, the valve train on the front, passenger side sounds louder than the rest. If it turns out to be a valve train issue, what sort
of can of worms am I opening up? It's time for the second timing belt with 177K miles. So, the question is whether it's time to bail and look for
something newer or patch it together?
06-05-18, 02:38 PM
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I have not pulled the pan, so chips and swarf are not seen in the drained oil. These levels of copper
and iron are not visible to the naked eye.
Tim....I'm using Moble1 and I don't know what OCI is.
Copper would be found in bushings and/or bearings. Bearings would point to crankshaft, rods or
camshaft bearings. Valve guides normally are bushed.
and iron are not visible to the naked eye.
Tim....I'm using Moble1 and I don't know what OCI is.
Copper would be found in bushings and/or bearings. Bearings would point to crankshaft, rods or
camshaft bearings. Valve guides normally are bushed.
06-06-18, 04:52 PM
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OCI...first some history, this LS400 was purchased second hand at 85K miles, timing belt, oil change to Mobil1 and transmission serviced.
I acquired it from my son at 163K and changed oil & filter, oil change at 171K (7.8K), oil analysis showed Cu 13ppm v. 4ppm average,
iron 15ppm v. 7ppm average. Latest oil change at 176K (5K) shows Cu 14ppm and iron 12ppm. Tomorrow it goes into the shop for
an exploratory of the camshafts before I throw any more $$$ at it.
I acquired it from my son at 163K and changed oil & filter, oil change at 171K (7.8K), oil analysis showed Cu 13ppm v. 4ppm average,
iron 15ppm v. 7ppm average. Latest oil change at 176K (5K) shows Cu 14ppm and iron 12ppm. Tomorrow it goes into the shop for
an exploratory of the camshafts before I throw any more $$$ at it.
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06-07-18, 10:25 AM
#8
what oil are you using now? still mobil 1 syn? what oil filter are you using?
makes sense that copper may be from the bearing journals but why so high...
I have never heard of any valve train issues on these cars, nor have I heard lubrication issues, but not everyone does oil analysis here.
makes sense that copper may be from the bearing journals but why so high...
I have never heard of any valve train issues on these cars, nor have I heard lubrication issues, but not everyone does oil analysis here.
06-07-18, 02:54 PM
#9
Just my opinion - I would not worry about the 2x or 3x factor in Iron and Copper. Yes, you might have a problem in there, but who knows how long it will take to develop into something real? Maybe 50k miles? I'd expect that if you've got a significant wear problem with the bearings, the levels would be much higher than 2-3x, and they'll certainly get a lot higher than that when the real damage is about to occur.
So maybe this info would make me pause before investing more $$ in the car, but I would not go digging into it to find the root cause. Good to continue to track it like you're doing, but based on this info, let I'd let the problem find me rather than me finding it.
Like most of the car, these engines are very unlikely to have problems unless they are neglected / abused.
So maybe this info would make me pause before investing more $$ in the car, but I would not go digging into it to find the root cause. Good to continue to track it like you're doing, but based on this info, let I'd let the problem find me rather than me finding it.
Like most of the car, these engines are very unlikely to have problems unless they are neglected / abused.
Last edited by oldskewel; 06-07-18 at 02:59 PM.
06-07-18, 05:43 PM
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I agree Oldskewel, but since it's time for a timing belt and the right front cylinder sounded noisier than the
rest I thought I'd, at least investigate the cam situation. As it turned out the lobes looked fine, no swarf,
no debris. But what does intrigue me is whether or not there are cam bearings. I can't imagine anything
except a motorcycle using the aluminum heads for a bearing surface. I'm old school too, but then again
I've only delved into Fords, Chevy's, Dodges, Honda's and Yamaha's. Hell, I even had to scrape the
cam bearings in the last 302 I built 20 years ago. And it's still running! At any rate, after opening up
the LS400, and shortly after an oil change, I will change the oil and filter again( don't trust anyone else
to open and close my engines since I'm an **** SOB). So, as you suggested, I'll just drive 'er 'til she drops.
rest I thought I'd, at least investigate the cam situation. As it turned out the lobes looked fine, no swarf,
no debris. But what does intrigue me is whether or not there are cam bearings. I can't imagine anything
except a motorcycle using the aluminum heads for a bearing surface. I'm old school too, but then again
I've only delved into Fords, Chevy's, Dodges, Honda's and Yamaha's. Hell, I even had to scrape the
cam bearings in the last 302 I built 20 years ago. And it's still running! At any rate, after opening up
the LS400, and shortly after an oil change, I will change the oil and filter again( don't trust anyone else
to open and close my engines since I'm an **** SOB). So, as you suggested, I'll just drive 'er 'til she drops.
06-08-18, 12:31 AM
#11
Racer
Just my opinion - I would not worry about the 2x or 3x factor in Iron and Copper. Yes, you might have a problem in there, but who knows how long it will take to develop into something real? Maybe 50k miles? I'd expect that if you've got a significant wear problem with the bearings, the levels would be much higher than 2-3x, and they'll certainly get a lot higher than that when the real damage is about to occur.
So maybe this info would make me pause before investing more $$ in the car, but I would not go digging into it to find the root cause. Good to continue to track it like you're doing, but based on this info, let I'd let the problem find me rather than me finding it.
Like most of the car, these engines are very unlikely to have problems unless they are neglected / abused.
So maybe this info would make me pause before investing more $$ in the car, but I would not go digging into it to find the root cause. Good to continue to track it like you're doing, but based on this info, let I'd let the problem find me rather than me finding it.
Like most of the car, these engines are very unlikely to have problems unless they are neglected / abused.
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