fabchef

Hi gang, fabs here. I'll soon be in search of another car. I've always loved the LS model. I've seen some older models ('91-2000) as they are in my budget. First off...is it crazy to consider an older model LS, to run all year long (even in winter)? Secondly, how do they do in snow with good snow tires (which are mandatory here)? I've read lots of reviews of winter driving but with all season tires. Any model years that you recommend? Thanks.fabs

valex

I have a 99LS, live in Colorado Rockies, 1/2 year summer wheels and tires, 1/2 year winter wheels with Blizzaks.
I don't venture into steep unplowed driveways, try to keep gas tank full (more weight) and sometimes carry two sandbags in trunk.
With dedicated snow tires LS does pretty good.

Losiracer2

It'll be my first real winter in Michigan with my 97 LS, moved here from AZ in May so I really didn't have temps below 40 that often. Since my car doesn't have traction control, I opted to buy some Blizzak snow tires. I'm running IS350 18" AWD wheels though so I've got 245/45/18s on it.

i think since it hasn't really snowed yet, they don't do too good in the rain compared to my all seasons I just removed last week, even though these are nearly new Blizzaks with only 3k miles on them. Bought them from a guy on Craigslist for $200 since they wouldn't fit his new Volvo.

They do break traction easily if you're driving in the wet which it has been raining and in the 30s all this past week. I oversteered slightly one time, but I think it's was a combo of too much steering angle and throttle. But I think once some snow falls, they'll have more to grab hold of on the road. Either that or I'll need to lower my pressure from 35 to 30 psi to widen the contact patch and add 100lbs of ballast over the rear wheels.

Kansas

The 1990 LS400 we had from new until 2003 was OK enough on snow and did a little better in the later 1990's when I started using certified (mountain/snowflake symbol) winter tires. I thought the 90 LS was very scary on snow and ice on all-season tires. I always carried a bag of sand on each side of the trunk to help with traction and to use if I got stuck. The only times I got stuck was when it got high centered in deep snow.

The 2000 LS400 we bought in 2003 and sold in 2014 was incredibly better on snow and ice than the 1990. No bags of sand were needed in the trunk. I used Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires on aftermarket wheels every winter. The 1998-up LS400 has a "snow" transmission mode setting which helps immensely. The 1998-up LS400 also has VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) which is very effective on snow and ice as long as you have winter tires. ABS on the later LS400 was also more effective than the early ABS. I don't know which model year Traction Control was made standard but it was standard on the 98-up LS400. I got stuck a couple of times in the 2000 when it high centered in deep snow but I was able to dig out and keep going - we keep a snow shovel in each vehicle during winter.

Tomorrow is "snow tire day" for us. I'll be mounting our winter wheels/tires on our current vehicles as I've always done the weekend before the Thanksgiving holiday.

fabchef

Thanks for the replies gang.
Kansas, thanks for the info. So you would suggest '98 and up? I do like those model years, but did see a 91 at a good price and seemed nice in pictures. I grew up (i'm in my early 40's) driving big Chevy V8 rwd cars, so I know what it's like in snow.
in terms of areas of the car to look out (inspect) for, what do you recommend to look at?
On a different note, do the rear seats of these cars fold down or have a ski-pass in the rear?
​​​​​​​thanks fab
Thanks
fab

Losiracer2

98+ models would be more desirable. They've got the VVTi V8, 5spd auto vs 4spd. for better fuel economy and bigger 4 piston caliper brakes up front. Not to mention a better ride and longer wheelbase for more rear seat room.

Kansas

Yes, 98 and up will work much better in snow that the earlier LS400. My 2000 LS400 did better in snow than even our current front wheel drive vehicles on which I also use Blizzak winter tires.

What to inspect? Well ... these are complex, aging cars and they can be very expensive to fix. There's lots that can go wrong. The LS400 of the early 90's was especially subject to electrical corrosion. Broken wires at the left trunk hinge was also a common problem that caused transmission shifting issues. I'd be leery of relying on one as a daily driver unless you have a backup vehicle.

There's no fold-down back seat or ski pass-through in any LS400 - the gas tank is between the rear seat back and the trunk. Most LS430 have a pass-through - its gas tank is under the car.. I never used it on either of my LS400's but I found that the Yakima rack system I used on my Honda CRX Si "ski car" in the 1980's fit my 2000 LS400 when I test fitted it just for fun. Here are photos of it on my 2000 LS400 without out the ski attachment: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...ml#post6066545 I need to get rid of my Yakima rack and ski attachment. I retired from skiing in 2006 after my only major crash in 30 years of skiing when I ruined a perfectly good helmet. I was told that I had a nice stay in the Aspen Valley hospital but I was unconscious through most of it.

Montana, eh? I'm thinking an AWD Subaru WRX hatchback with winter tires and a ski rack would be fun.

fabchef

Hey Kansas, i'm from the great white north..Canada. My better-half has a forester, not too bad in snow, I find it a little light in weight. I currently have an SUV, but want to go back to a car.
I was looking for fun at the Classifieds and saw the lexus GS, seems to be the same as the LS but more of a "sportier" ride, is this correct? Is it much different than the LS? They seem to be a little cheaper priced than LS, and some come with awd system. Is the awd good on a lexus?
​​​​​​​thanks fab

Kansas

Yes, the GS is sportier. 2006 was the first year that AWD was available on the GS. Toyota/Lexus AWD is apparently very reliable - have seen very few reports of problems. I don't know if any pre-2006 GS have a trunk pass-through for skis but I know that the non-hybrid 2006-up GS does. IIRC, the hybrid GS does not have a trunk pass-through but it is available only in RWD anyway.

A 2006-up GS AWD would probably cost quite a bit more than an LS400 but you would get more modern technology.

I doubt that we will ever buy another "3-box" sedan with a traditional trunk. We seem to have rediscovered the joys of hatchbacks - no more struggling to bring home stuff from the big-box store. We were able to bring home a 46" flat screen TV in our Prius v wagon and a 60" flat screen TV in our Sienna with both TV's standing up the way they are supposed to be transported - try doing that in a sedan.

fabchef

Thanks again. In terms of pricing, it seems that I can find a few more 2006-2008 GS model with awd at the same price I can find a 2002 LS. The pricing here for used LS's is not olny crazy, but harder car to come by.
trhe awd system is a plus, but I also like a "cruiser" car that can handle our horrible, pot-holes roads.
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Amskeptic

I enjoy the early Lexus LS400 in the snow. I drove a 1990 LS400 and a 1992 LS400 through several upstate New York winters and one epic blizzard in 1999. They both were equipped with traction control. The 1990 had M+S tires (Michelin Harmony) and the 1992 had Michelin Arctic somethingorothers.

As often as not, I would shut the traction control off so I could set up my corners with just a little blast of throttle. You might think that is self-defeating, but in fact, I could use the throttle to much greater effect for steering. I strongly suggest that people not become dependent upon electronic assists. With the traction control on, you'd lose throttle and perhaps get a little brake application chatter even as the front end decides to plow wide anyway. Then what?

To prepare myself for the long upstate snow belt winters, I'd take my Lexii to the nearest large shopping center parking lot in the dead of night and set up a nice little slalom course for myself. Then I would throw the car into slides over and over again until it became utterly second nature to catch and correct. As my slalom course would get "icy" from packed snow, I would enjoy all of the likely surprises you'd confront out on the roads, super slippery on one side but not the other, ridges that throw the car, etc. Over time, the limitations of traction control and ABS became apparent. If you needed to re-direct the car NOW, the electronics would say "ah, no." Without traction control, I could use the throttle to much greater effect for steering. Braking was actually better in fresh deep snow without ABS because the tires could make little snow dams, but de-activating the ABS is not an option from the driver's seat and resetting the thrown code is annoying.

I recommend that all snow belt drivers invest some time in having a blast at a parking lot in the dead of night with falling snow, It changes the entire calculus of winter to enjoy driving sideways.

deanshark

The only way to drive in the snow. Steer with the back tires instead of the front.
I keep my traction control off ALL the time. I just don't like how it feels when it kicks on, and ya cant spin yourself out of a slide. Driving almost 40 years of New England winters has been fun.

fabchef

Oh man, now I got the "rwd-fishtail" buzz again. I always enjoyed having the butt slide, letting go of gas, and regaining your direction. I grew up driving caprice's, so I know what that was like. My '96 with limited slip diff, blizzak tires was a tank!

Kansas

If you like fishtailing, DO NOT buy a newer car with stability control. The 98-up LS and GS have Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) which intervenes when skidding starts and puts you back on course, i.e. to where the steering wheel is pointed.

Newer vehicles made by Toyota have an even more advanced version of VSC that detect skids earlier and corrects them quicker. Beyond Advanced VSC is "Vehicle Dynamics Enhanced Management" (VDIM) which detects impending skids before they start and controls the brakes, gas pedal and even the steering - all totally seamless.

All these electron aids really don't take the fun out of driving - only the drama and danger.

fabchef

Hey, allow me to correct myself. I don't mind if the read end brakes loose; however, if the vsc works well and keeps the car as much as it can from breaking loose, that's ok. What I don't like, and we had this on our 2007 passat wagon, was when I was trying to merge into a lane and the power just bogged down cause the nanny was trying to correct the slipping and the car was going nowhere...that I hate! If the vsc works and the car is still moving, i'm ok with it.