The honeymoon is over
02-17-17, 08:32 AM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
The honeymoon is over
Took my new-to-me '96 LS 400 to my local Toyota dealership for a 175k mile service (oil and filter change plus rotate tires) and to get the valve cover gasket leak checked out. Well, it turns out that I have 3 major leaks and some other issues; valve cover gasket, engine pan gasket, transmission pan gasket, need a fuel injector service and throttle body cleaning, and I came home with a new battery.
The service advisor told me that my car was only fine to drive short distances and check fluids every time I drive. So, this morning I picked up a few things from CVS (5 miles roundtrip). As soon as I pulled my Lex into the driveway, the car stopped itself and the check engine light, low oil light, and battery light came on. I turn off the engine, turn it back on, and all the lights are gone. I left the car where it was in my driveway and checked the oil. Before I left, there was plenty of engine oil and now it's bare. The transmission fluid looked alright.
Besides the obvious (need leaks fixed asap), should I be majorly concerned here? Did the car stop itself to prevent any damage or did it seize up?
The service advisor told me that my car was only fine to drive short distances and check fluids every time I drive. So, this morning I picked up a few things from CVS (5 miles roundtrip). As soon as I pulled my Lex into the driveway, the car stopped itself and the check engine light, low oil light, and battery light came on. I turn off the engine, turn it back on, and all the lights are gone. I left the car where it was in my driveway and checked the oil. Before I left, there was plenty of engine oil and now it's bare. The transmission fluid looked alright.
Besides the obvious (need leaks fixed asap), should I be majorly concerned here? Did the car stop itself to prevent any damage or did it seize up?
Last edited by lexslexus; 02-17-17 at 09:13 AM.
02-17-17, 10:08 AM
#2
Two things, its funny how people buy "OLD" cars and think they are going to be like brand new ones, yeah LS400's were built nice and are good cars, but things deteriorate with age and all cars have certain "known" problems the LS's are not immune to problems.
The other funny thing is, I do find it interesting how some people can take their cars to a car fix it business and then drive home to have all sorts of problems with it.
Makes me wonder if someone is trying to bring in more work? Meaning sabotage.
And in the end if you are not a DIY person, then an old car is not for you. It costs a bunch to have someone fixing it all the time. Unless you do plan to spend the big bucks needed to rebuild the car and make it new again. If you are not a DIY person and are buying an old car thinking your saving big money that is not always going to be the case. Yeah if the outside and inside are pristine then its worth spending what ever it takes to make the power train and suspension brand new. If the outside and inside are trash, the car would then be better as a parts house.
The other funny thing is, I do find it interesting how some people can take their cars to a car fix it business and then drive home to have all sorts of problems with it.
Makes me wonder if someone is trying to bring in more work? Meaning sabotage.
And in the end if you are not a DIY person, then an old car is not for you. It costs a bunch to have someone fixing it all the time. Unless you do plan to spend the big bucks needed to rebuild the car and make it new again. If you are not a DIY person and are buying an old car thinking your saving big money that is not always going to be the case. Yeah if the outside and inside are pristine then its worth spending what ever it takes to make the power train and suspension brand new. If the outside and inside are trash, the car would then be better as a parts house.
02-17-17, 10:37 AM
#4
Driver
Thread Starter
In my original post, I said several times that my car is not getting any younger and I'm not expecting it to be perfect or anywhere close. Of course it will have some issues! Even new cars have issues lol. The LS 400 is known to have its own set of issues too but they're issues I can handle. I bought this car for 1 reason: because it is known for being a hell of a lot more reliable than my old Passat W8. Added bonus, I wanted to start DIYing my cars and again, unlike my Passat, it seems like a much better fit for that. Also, I don't mind at all bringing it back to where it should be. The car has maintenance records showing it has been routinely serviced all the way up to 1k miles before I purchased it but even with that, it's not new or CPO, it will have some issues so I'm not surprised. All I wanted to know is if the engine might have been damaged but it seems just fine for now.
02-17-17, 10:51 AM
#5
Moderator
At this point, top off the oil and fire it up. If it runs smoothly, then you know you're back at square one. HOWEVER, you need to address the leaks immediately, or you'll be leaking oil everywhere you go, like the Exxon Valdez. The Valve covers aren't that bad to change. The trans gasket is even easier (service the transmission while you're in there) but the engine pan gasket might be the toughest one to do. I have not tackled that one.
There are threads on here that have discussed each of those leaks individually, so you've got help at your finger tips to do it step by step.
There are threads on here that have discussed each of those leaks individually, so you've got help at your finger tips to do it step by step.
02-17-17, 10:56 AM
#6
Moderator
Cleaning the Throttle Body is a pretty easy job on this engine, so that's one more item that you could accomplish yourself. The fuel injectors could stand a cleaning with the mileage you have on the car, but the dealership uses a pressurized can of cleaner which is attached to the fuel rails, to force dirt out of the injectors. You could run a couple bottles of Techron through the tank and that would help as well. That's about the only fuel system cleaner I would use.
02-17-17, 12:25 PM
#7
That isn't a whole lot of repairs considering the age, this may be worthwhile.
That is concerning that the dipstick shows bare when they did an oil service. Check under the car to verity the oil pan bolt is there.
I had a slight AFT leak in ours and the culprit wound up being the selector shaft seal that is just above the pan. This drips down and onto that ridge that makes it look like the pan gasket is leaking. One transmission related symptom was that the first couple cold miles of driving there was a bit of harshness to the shift but went away once warm. There was minimal fluid loss when it is pressurized and in operation, this did not show up when the car was parked though. Looking under the car the AFT fluid trial was obvious/messy residue. The transmission has been shifting as normal with the seals replaced and no fluid loss. Cost for that seal repair was $206.
Had the valve cover gaskets done too, I dislike an oily grimy engine. This is fairly involved but DIY'able. Ours was in the shop for other service so this was added in since they could do the routine much faster than I would. Cost was $632. With the top open like this I'd suggest replacing the plugs, ignition wires and may as well do caps and rotors. Along with the vacuum lines in the area. PCV valve, gasket and hose too.
The dealers love injector service more for padding their profits. Can pass and DIY cleaning the throttle body. What kind of MPG is the car getting now? Run a good premium fuel (Shell V-Power, 76 Premium, Sunoco Premium or 93) the included detergents are IMO sufficient. Optional Techron is a popular cleaner to try.
That is concerning that the dipstick shows bare when they did an oil service. Check under the car to verity the oil pan bolt is there.
I had a slight AFT leak in ours and the culprit wound up being the selector shaft seal that is just above the pan. This drips down and onto that ridge that makes it look like the pan gasket is leaking. One transmission related symptom was that the first couple cold miles of driving there was a bit of harshness to the shift but went away once warm. There was minimal fluid loss when it is pressurized and in operation, this did not show up when the car was parked though. Looking under the car the AFT fluid trial was obvious/messy residue. The transmission has been shifting as normal with the seals replaced and no fluid loss. Cost for that seal repair was $206.
Had the valve cover gaskets done too, I dislike an oily grimy engine. This is fairly involved but DIY'able. Ours was in the shop for other service so this was added in since they could do the routine much faster than I would. Cost was $632. With the top open like this I'd suggest replacing the plugs, ignition wires and may as well do caps and rotors. Along with the vacuum lines in the area. PCV valve, gasket and hose too.
The dealers love injector service more for padding their profits. Can pass and DIY cleaning the throttle body. What kind of MPG is the car getting now? Run a good premium fuel (Shell V-Power, 76 Premium, Sunoco Premium or 93) the included detergents are IMO sufficient. Optional Techron is a popular cleaner to try.
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02-17-17, 01:08 PM
#8
You went to nearly the most expensive option for repairs on your LS400, second to a Lexus dealer. Although it may be about the same as my local Toyota dealer has different labor rates for Toyota and Lexus. Maybe you can call around to some independent shops and ask on their experience level with LS400's. The valve cover leaks can usually be slowed by simply tightening the bolts. They are 10mm head. They like to simply loosen on the LS400 and will leak a lot that way. I doubt it will totally seal your leak as the valve cover gaskets are probably very hard and brittle. Oil pan gaskets very rarely leak. They are pretty much glued on at the factory with Toyota's form of RTV and it does a great job staying sealed through the life of the car. Unless it's been removed at some point... Same goes for the trans pan. But, most every LS400 has had it's trans pan off at some point so there is a new leak point there. The lower oil pan is an easy job, the upper oil pan is a bit more difficult. But they VERY RARELY leak. front crank seals are more common.
I say clean as much of the engine from the valve covers down as you can and look for leaks when it's clean. Most 1UZ's are covered in oil and grime down the front of the engine. That is usually from leaking front crank seals and valve cover gaskets. The valve cover gaskets leak on the exhaust manifolds too.
I would get a second opinion before resealing the oil pans man... That's pretty big bucks and I'd bet money they're wrong on that one.
Also, you're saying you had nothing on the engine oil dipstick once you got home? You would have to literally be trailing a cloud of smoke to leak out 5+ quarts on the way home from the dealer to the point where the oil pump can no longer suck up oil. Did you hear any knocking prior to shutdown or when you started it back up? The oil pressure light will illuminate when the engine is off so maybe your car died for another reason. The throttle body cleaning may help a low idle if you have one. How is your fuel economy?
I say clean as much of the engine from the valve covers down as you can and look for leaks when it's clean. Most 1UZ's are covered in oil and grime down the front of the engine. That is usually from leaking front crank seals and valve cover gaskets. The valve cover gaskets leak on the exhaust manifolds too.
I would get a second opinion before resealing the oil pans man... That's pretty big bucks and I'd bet money they're wrong on that one.
Also, you're saying you had nothing on the engine oil dipstick once you got home? You would have to literally be trailing a cloud of smoke to leak out 5+ quarts on the way home from the dealer to the point where the oil pump can no longer suck up oil. Did you hear any knocking prior to shutdown or when you started it back up? The oil pressure light will illuminate when the engine is off so maybe your car died for another reason. The throttle body cleaning may help a low idle if you have one. How is your fuel economy?
02-17-17, 02:09 PM
#9
The injector service and TB cleaning are the least of your problems . Don't do them now. TB is really easy to do yourself.
Jack up the car and look underneath for leaks.
look from the top and see if you see a new trail anywhere.
wipe everything off really good then start it and see if the leak flows out from anywhere.
take it to any different mechanic dont tell them anything the other dealer said.
try repairpal.com
how much did they charge you for a new battery?
Jack up the car and look underneath for leaks.
look from the top and see if you see a new trail anywhere.
wipe everything off really good then start it and see if the leak flows out from anywhere.
take it to any different mechanic dont tell them anything the other dealer said.
try repairpal.com
how much did they charge you for a new battery?
02-17-17, 04:43 PM
#10
Driver
Thread Starter
Hey everyone, thanks for the great information. I will take all the advice given, especially with tracking down the leaks and taking care of them first.
I looked into my service history on Lexus Drivers and it shows that the transmission pan gasket and oil pan gasket were replaced around 15 years ago. It actually seems like they got replaced until the true source of the leak got tracked down. First, the transmission pan gasket got replaced then shortly afterward a few other things then the leak stopped when it got a new crankshaft seal. Then, 20,000 miles later, the same thing happened with the oil pan gasket then the leak stopped when my LS got a new pinion seal.
I've barely driven the car but when I drove it back from the dealer (1.5 hour trip) the MPG seemed fine. The gas tank was 3/4 full and only dropped half a quarter by the time I got home.
When I got home today, the oil dipstick wasn't empty but it had barely enough oil on it. Before I left, it had more than enough oil covering it.
The new battery cost me $100.
No knocking or any other abnormal sounds.
I looked into my service history on Lexus Drivers and it shows that the transmission pan gasket and oil pan gasket were replaced around 15 years ago. It actually seems like they got replaced until the true source of the leak got tracked down. First, the transmission pan gasket got replaced then shortly afterward a few other things then the leak stopped when it got a new crankshaft seal. Then, 20,000 miles later, the same thing happened with the oil pan gasket then the leak stopped when my LS got a new pinion seal.
I've barely driven the car but when I drove it back from the dealer (1.5 hour trip) the MPG seemed fine. The gas tank was 3/4 full and only dropped half a quarter by the time I got home.
When I got home today, the oil dipstick wasn't empty but it had barely enough oil on it. Before I left, it had more than enough oil covering it.
The new battery cost me $100.
No knocking or any other abnormal sounds.
Last edited by lexslexus; 02-17-17 at 06:03 PM.
02-17-17, 06:55 PM
#14
Driver
Thread Starter
Not at all. Just a very faint oil smell for about 30 secs after startup. Would never have known there was a leak if I didn't look under the hood. Pretty strange. I'm very interested to see what the local Toyota/Lexus specialist has to say when I get my car back after getting a 2nd opinion.
02-17-17, 07:00 PM
#15
If you had the oil changed at the dealer and it was almost off the dipstick after two hours on the road, stop driving the car until you fix the leak. That is a massive leak.