New LS400 What Maintenence?
06-21-13, 08:45 PM
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New LS400 What Maintenence?
I just picked up a 1 owner 1997 ls400 coach edition with 180k miles from my neighbor which had been maintained at the dealership from day 1. I took it to the local "go to" Lexus mechanic who did a very thorough 2 hour PPI for me. He says car is in great shape overall but badly needs a transmission flush and air filter. Needs new brake pads in less than 10k miles. Perhaps a bit of seeping on one of the gaskets, but said he doesn't recommend doing anything in regards to that currently. Timing belt was changed at 90k service. He says waiting another 20k miles on that is not an issue as it is a non interference engine. He said to spend my money elsewhere for the time being. Oh yes, tires. Front have maybe 5k on them, rear maybe 15k. His timing belt costs are between $1400-$1600. He does ONLY Toyota and Lexus. He was SLAMMED but fit in the PPI after hours as I was worried car was going to be sold out from under me. It was like new condition inside, even the leather seats looked 95%, unlike most I had seen.....
Anyway he gave me prices for him to do the work and i called around and his prices are about 20% higher than another Lexus/Toyota/Honda/KIA/Hyundai/Acura service center.
I am NOT made of money obviously, and am wondering if I should go with the more expensive Lexus specialist who everyone raves about, or should I go with the cheaper service center? Its going to be a pretty big price difference, but he seemed to be pretty upfront and honest, not something often thought of when thinking of mechanics. But, I ain't made or money either and don't want to overpay to get my "newtome" car up and running perfectly!
Anyway he gave me prices for him to do the work and i called around and his prices are about 20% higher than another Lexus/Toyota/Honda/KIA/Hyundai/Acura service center.
I am NOT made of money obviously, and am wondering if I should go with the more expensive Lexus specialist who everyone raves about, or should I go with the cheaper service center? Its going to be a pretty big price difference, but he seemed to be pretty upfront and honest, not something often thought of when thinking of mechanics. But, I ain't made or money either and don't want to overpay to get my "newtome" car up and running perfectly!
06-21-13, 09:27 PM
#3
Welcome to Club Lexus and congrats on the '97 LS.
If this was meticulously maintained as you mentioned I'm suspicious. Ask your neighbor for the service records or go down to this dealer and get the repair history. Aside from what is "needed", my first suggestion if he is truly "familiar" being a Toyota/Lexus mechanic, find another mechanic. This is an interference motor.
1. He says car is in great shape overall but badly needs a transmission flush and air filter.
You can check those yourself to verify. Check the ATF fluid, if this is black, yup, you need to do some maintenance but not a flush.
2. Check the power steering fluid. If black, again you'll need maintenance.
If either of these fluids are bright red or dark red, this mechanic is trying to play you. A dealer maintained car and if the neighbor followed the schedule it should not need a tranny "flush". Only if the car is neglected will it need this type of service in which case, you may be in for other maintenance issues.
Timing belt at the dealer will hit your wallet $1,400-$1,600. Most independent shops will do the same drill for $1,100-$1,400 and that upper amount is replacing a good amount of other parts. Like ignition wires, caps, rotors, several seals, serpentine belt, etc.
This FAQ has the common discussions to get you going.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...questions.html
If this was meticulously maintained as you mentioned I'm suspicious. Ask your neighbor for the service records or go down to this dealer and get the repair history. Aside from what is "needed", my first suggestion if he is truly "familiar" being a Toyota/Lexus mechanic, find another mechanic. This is an interference motor.
1. He says car is in great shape overall but badly needs a transmission flush and air filter.
You can check those yourself to verify. Check the ATF fluid, if this is black, yup, you need to do some maintenance but not a flush.
2. Check the power steering fluid. If black, again you'll need maintenance.
If either of these fluids are bright red or dark red, this mechanic is trying to play you. A dealer maintained car and if the neighbor followed the schedule it should not need a tranny "flush". Only if the car is neglected will it need this type of service in which case, you may be in for other maintenance issues.
Timing belt at the dealer will hit your wallet $1,400-$1,600. Most independent shops will do the same drill for $1,100-$1,400 and that upper amount is replacing a good amount of other parts. Like ignition wires, caps, rotors, several seals, serpentine belt, etc.
This FAQ has the common discussions to get you going.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...questions.html
06-21-13, 10:01 PM
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I'm in Raleigh. I hate to say it, but as a female, I was never encouraged to learn about cars other than how to fill it with gas. Heck, my mom hardly ever even filled up her on gas tank, LOL Honestly, I don't even have a clue how to check the oil, much less the air filter. Therefore, sadly I am at at the mercy of the mechanics. I hope to find some helpful folks to help guide me as to what is the best thing to do for my new to me car. I am willing to learn the basics but probably will ask a thousand and one dumb questions along the way.....
Thanks!
Thanks!
06-21-13, 10:53 PM
#6
Not necessary to post the full record. You'll want to see that the fluid maintenance for brake, tranny, power steering and differential were done. Usually at 60K miles but they may do them at 90K depending on condition. The 30k, 60K and 90K are important indicators of typical service schedules. Oil changes every 5-6K shows good maintenance practices as well. 
If the tranny fluid has been done and you verify it is red, you are in good shape. Tranny and power steering are important because at 130K+ miles, if neglected problems begin to show up in poor shifting and steering issues. On a car that is ~$5K in value, the repairs are big $.
If the tranny fluid has been done and you verify it is red, you are in good shape. Tranny and power steering are important because at 130K+ miles, if neglected problems begin to show up in poor shifting and steering issues. On a car that is ~$5K in value, the repairs are big $.
06-22-13, 07:32 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
here are the likely areas where you may have issues that ya might wanna take a peek at:
strut bar bushings
lower EGR pipe
transmission mount
motor mounts
Idle Air Control Valve (IACV)
ECU capacitors
PS leaks (which kill alternators)
cig lighter fuse link
climate control or radio LCD screen
upper control arms (UCA's)
+ side battery terminal
really nothing else tends to go wrong on these cars, perhaps drain & fill tranny with genuine T-IV fluid, and if it were mine, I would renew the plugs, plug wires, caps & rotors at the time of doing the timing belt!
one thing that makes these cars wonderful, it that the big 3 expensive things to replace on a car: engine, transmission, and A/C system tend to never have any problems!
if you have free time and interest, you should consider doing the timing belt with a friend who has tools and has done some of them before, it is very rewarding and you could save that $1500 at the dealership or the Lexus specialist, because the Aisin timing belt kit full of factory parts is only about $200 if you shop it hard.
strut bar bushings
lower EGR pipe
transmission mount
motor mounts
Idle Air Control Valve (IACV)
ECU capacitors
PS leaks (which kill alternators)
cig lighter fuse link
climate control or radio LCD screen
upper control arms (UCA's)
+ side battery terminal
really nothing else tends to go wrong on these cars, perhaps drain & fill tranny with genuine T-IV fluid, and if it were mine, I would renew the plugs, plug wires, caps & rotors at the time of doing the timing belt!
one thing that makes these cars wonderful, it that the big 3 expensive things to replace on a car: engine, transmission, and A/C system tend to never have any problems!
I'm in Raleigh. I hate to say it, but as a female, I was never encouraged to learn about cars other than how to fill it with gas. Heck, my mom hardly ever even filled up her on gas tank, LOL Honestly, I don't even have a clue how to check the oil, much less the air filter. Therefore, sadly I am at at the mercy of the mechanics. I hope to find some helpful folks to help guide me as to what is the best thing to do for my new to me car. I am willing to learn the basics but probably will ask a thousand and one dumb questions along the way.....
Thanks!
Thanks!
Last edited by LScowboyLS; 06-22-13 at 07:42 AM.
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06-22-13, 09:19 AM
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Honestly, it's not that I'm afraid of breaking a nail or something 
but I have never even changed the oil in a car before! Off the top of my head don't know anyone else who changes their own oil much less anyone I could ask to help me tackle something like a timing belt.
I am very confused about the transmission flush and the interference engine thing. The mechanic said something along the lines of the transmission fluid had been mixed, green and red and was very old and smelly which was not good and I am almost certain he said in this particular case he wanted to do a flush not a drain. Perhaps I misunderstood. The interference / non interference engine: I was told by not only the mechanic but the service manager at Lexus that the 97 year model definitely had a non-interference engine. Is this something I can confirm directly with Lexus one way or another? After reading this forum for awhile over the past few days it seems most here are just as certain that it actually does have an interference engine!
but I have never even changed the oil in a car before! Off the top of my head don't know anyone else who changes their own oil much less anyone I could ask to help me tackle something like a timing belt.I am very confused about the transmission flush and the interference engine thing. The mechanic said something along the lines of the transmission fluid had been mixed, green and red and was very old and smelly which was not good and I am almost certain he said in this particular case he wanted to do a flush not a drain. Perhaps I misunderstood. The interference / non interference engine: I was told by not only the mechanic but the service manager at Lexus that the 97 year model definitely had a non-interference engine. Is this something I can confirm directly with Lexus one way or another? After reading this forum for awhile over the past few days it seems most here are just as certain that it actually does have an interference engine!
06-22-13, 09:41 AM
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Other than oil changes, tire rotations, light bulbs and fuses here is the stuff done according to the dealership records:
Dec '00-Replace rear brake pads / resurface rotors
Apr 02-Replace Struts
Nov '04- Hinge Subassy(Both sides)
Aug 05-Timing Belt / Water pump
Feb 05-Replace Struts
Aug 08-Replace power steering pump, power steering rack and pinion and power steering pressure line.
Sept 11-Replace starter assembly
There was also records of A/C work done at a Lexus dealership in Florida in 2005 so it must have gone out while they were traveling.
I have no records of another brake pads done since '00 or Struts done since 05 so I am guessing these were done since then at somewhere other than the dealership.
Is replacing the steering stuff pretty common on these cars? I don't ever remember hearing someone doing that before.
Dec '00-Replace rear brake pads / resurface rotors
Apr 02-Replace Struts
Nov '04- Hinge Subassy(Both sides)
Aug 05-Timing Belt / Water pump
Feb 05-Replace Struts
Aug 08-Replace power steering pump, power steering rack and pinion and power steering pressure line.
Sept 11-Replace starter assembly
There was also records of A/C work done at a Lexus dealership in Florida in 2005 so it must have gone out while they were traveling.
I have no records of another brake pads done since '00 or Struts done since 05 so I am guessing these were done since then at somewhere other than the dealership.
Is replacing the steering stuff pretty common on these cars? I don't ever remember hearing someone doing that before.
06-22-13, 10:45 AM
#11
Lexus Champion
I seriously doubt you need struts, but I very much expect that you need strut bar bushings and a transmission mount (both are very cheap, both parts & labor)
do not flush the transmission, drain and fill, multiple times
and YES you have an interference engine, which means the engine will be wrecked if the timing belt breaks or breaks some teeth, when was it last done? (mileage)
do not flush the transmission, drain and fill, multiple times
and YES you have an interference engine, which means the engine will be wrecked if the timing belt breaks or breaks some teeth, when was it last done? (mileage)
06-22-13, 11:24 AM
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TB/WP was done at 89K and it currently has right at 181K. How long is "safe" to wait?
I was hoping not to put more than $2000 more into this car right off the bat. Tires are gonna run me at least $500, I did get a quote from another mechanic of $1000 for the TB/WP so I might have to go with him. That leaves me another $500 which does not even cover the quote of the transmission fluid stuff according to the quote. Then, brakes were quoted at somewhere around $700-$800 or maybe a bit more. He said they would needed doing in the next few months if not earlier. Oh yea and there were a few other things he recommended doing in the next few months which came up to another grand or so. I don't have the papers in front of me.
Perhaps it would be better to go ahead and bite the bullet and get everything done now and hope that I don't get into an accident or anything. My insurance would only offer liability on a car older than 15 years so sinking $7000 plus into a car without insurance makes me a bit nervous.
oh, and thanks for the help!
I was hoping not to put more than $2000 more into this car right off the bat. Tires are gonna run me at least $500, I did get a quote from another mechanic of $1000 for the TB/WP so I might have to go with him. That leaves me another $500 which does not even cover the quote of the transmission fluid stuff according to the quote. Then, brakes were quoted at somewhere around $700-$800 or maybe a bit more. He said they would needed doing in the next few months if not earlier. Oh yea and there were a few other things he recommended doing in the next few months which came up to another grand or so. I don't have the papers in front of me.
Perhaps it would be better to go ahead and bite the bullet and get everything done now and hope that I don't get into an accident or anything. My insurance would only offer liability on a car older than 15 years so sinking $7000 plus into a car without insurance makes me a bit nervous.
oh, and thanks for the help!
06-22-13, 12:04 PM
#13
I think in addition to what LScowboy recommended, you need a new mechanic AND dealer service advisor.
The LS400 had an interference engine starting with model year 1995.
If they don't know that, I would not trust them with anything more complex than an oil change (and probably not even that).
I guess it is conceivable that someone put an earlier (non-interference) engine in your 1997, but that is not an easy engine swap since lots of electronics are involved, and would be quite rare.
Interference means that the valves can run into the pistons if the timing belt breaks. This causes damage that is very expensive to fix.
(The next paragraph does not apply to you) -
In a non-interference engine, the belt breaking just causes the engine to stop. So you are stranded wherever you happen to be at the time, and will need to have the car towed and the belt replaced.
Sometimes terminology is not used precisely.
Transmission power flush - Don't do this.
Transmission fluid exchange - Excellent but more expensive than drain & fill because it takes a machine.
Transmission drain & fill multiple times - Very good, but takes time and effort compared to fluid exchange.
Final thought. Find a friend who will show you how to check your engine oil level (dipstick), and transmission oil level.(another dipstick).
Engine oil should be a nice golden color and be translucent. If it is dark, black or has particles (looking like tiny dust motes) in it, it needs to be changed.
Transmission oil should be a nice pink/red color. If it is brown or dark red, it should be exchanged or drain/refilled. It should not smell burned.
The red-green mixup sounds more like coolant (water and anti-freeze mix in the radiator + cooling system) than transmission fluid. As far as I know, there is no green-colored transmission fluid.
The LS400 had an interference engine starting with model year 1995.
If they don't know that, I would not trust them with anything more complex than an oil change (and probably not even that).
I guess it is conceivable that someone put an earlier (non-interference) engine in your 1997, but that is not an easy engine swap since lots of electronics are involved, and would be quite rare.
Interference means that the valves can run into the pistons if the timing belt breaks. This causes damage that is very expensive to fix.
(The next paragraph does not apply to you) -
In a non-interference engine, the belt breaking just causes the engine to stop. So you are stranded wherever you happen to be at the time, and will need to have the car towed and the belt replaced.
Sometimes terminology is not used precisely.
Transmission power flush - Don't do this.
Transmission fluid exchange - Excellent but more expensive than drain & fill because it takes a machine.
Transmission drain & fill multiple times - Very good, but takes time and effort compared to fluid exchange.
Final thought. Find a friend who will show you how to check your engine oil level (dipstick), and transmission oil level.(another dipstick).
Engine oil should be a nice golden color and be translucent. If it is dark, black or has particles (looking like tiny dust motes) in it, it needs to be changed.
Transmission oil should be a nice pink/red color. If it is brown or dark red, it should be exchanged or drain/refilled. It should not smell burned.
The red-green mixup sounds more like coolant (water and anti-freeze mix in the radiator + cooling system) than transmission fluid. As far as I know, there is no green-colored transmission fluid.
06-22-13, 01:19 PM
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I think you are correct, it was probably the coolant he said had 2 different mixtures.
I am in the car now looking at the estimates.
All it says:
Flush automatic fluid
Replace auto transmission filter
Reseal pan /replace gasket
Castrol ATF multi vehicle
14 6.7 93.80
Transfilter kit
1 96.30 96.30
$500
Other estimate for antifreeze. Stupid question probably :-) but anyway... I am driving the car to my house in Central Mexico in September where it will live and it never gets below 55 degrees. Does it still need antifreeze change?
Brakes are estimated at $800, but he said they are good to go for awhile so I will
Probably wait and do them in mexico where labor costs are much less expensive.
Another estimate was for replacing valve cover gaskets and PVC valve. This one was $700 but he said only one gasket was peeking a bit but not something he would do now but he gave me price on it anyway.
I am in the car now looking at the estimates.
All it says:
Flush automatic fluid
Replace auto transmission filter
Reseal pan /replace gasket
Castrol ATF multi vehicle
14 6.7 93.80
Transfilter kit
1 96.30 96.30
$500
Other estimate for antifreeze. Stupid question probably :-) but anyway... I am driving the car to my house in Central Mexico in September where it will live and it never gets below 55 degrees. Does it still need antifreeze change?
Brakes are estimated at $800, but he said they are good to go for awhile so I will
Probably wait and do them in mexico where labor costs are much less expensive.
Another estimate was for replacing valve cover gaskets and PVC valve. This one was $700 but he said only one gasket was peeking a bit but not something he would do now but he gave me price on it anyway.
I think in addition to what LScowboy recommended, you need a new mechanic AND dealer service advisor.
The LS400 had an interference engine starting with model year 1995.
If they don't know that, I would not trust them with anything more complex than an oil change (and probably not even that).
I guess it is conceivable that someone put an earlier (non-interference) engine in your 1997, but that is not an easy engine swap since lots of electronics are involved, and would be quite rare.
Interference means that the valves can run into the pistons if the timing belt breaks. This causes damage that is very expensive to fix.
(The next paragraph does not apply to you) -
In a non-interference engine, the belt breaking just causes the engine to stop. So you are stranded wherever you happen to be at the time, and will need to have the car towed and the belt replaced.
Sometimes terminology is not used precisely.
Transmission power flush - Don't do this.
Transmission fluid exchange - Excellent but more expensive than drain & fill because it takes a machine.
Transmission drain & fill multiple times - Very good, but takes time and effort compared to fluid exchange.
Final thought. Find a friend who will show you how to check your engine oil level (dipstick), and transmission oil level.(another dipstick).
Engine oil should be a nice golden color and be translucent. If it is dark, black or has particles (looking like tiny dust motes) in it, it needs to be changed.
Transmission oil should be a nice pink/red color. If it is brown or dark red, it should be exchanged or drain/refilled. It should not smell burned.
The red-green mixup sounds more like coolant (water and anti-freeze mix in the radiator + cooling system) than transmission fluid. As far as I know, there is no green-colored transmission fluid.
The LS400 had an interference engine starting with model year 1995.
If they don't know that, I would not trust them with anything more complex than an oil change (and probably not even that).
I guess it is conceivable that someone put an earlier (non-interference) engine in your 1997, but that is not an easy engine swap since lots of electronics are involved, and would be quite rare.
Interference means that the valves can run into the pistons if the timing belt breaks. This causes damage that is very expensive to fix.
(The next paragraph does not apply to you) -
In a non-interference engine, the belt breaking just causes the engine to stop. So you are stranded wherever you happen to be at the time, and will need to have the car towed and the belt replaced.
Sometimes terminology is not used precisely.
Transmission power flush - Don't do this.
Transmission fluid exchange - Excellent but more expensive than drain & fill because it takes a machine.
Transmission drain & fill multiple times - Very good, but takes time and effort compared to fluid exchange.
Final thought. Find a friend who will show you how to check your engine oil level (dipstick), and transmission oil level.(another dipstick).
Engine oil should be a nice golden color and be translucent. If it is dark, black or has particles (looking like tiny dust motes) in it, it needs to be changed.
Transmission oil should be a nice pink/red color. If it is brown or dark red, it should be exchanged or drain/refilled. It should not smell burned.
The red-green mixup sounds more like coolant (water and anti-freeze mix in the radiator + cooling system) than transmission fluid. As far as I know, there is no green-colored transmission fluid.
06-22-13, 02:21 PM
#15
Lexus Champion
why would brakes be this expensive? - that is truly something you can do yourself, a set of pads for mine was $50 for the front and seems like $40 for the back, and that was real Lexus pads!
and yes, the red and the green was coolant, not transmission fluid, and that does need to be flushed and replaced with 50/50 mix of genuine Toyota red & distilled water
there are many jobs on this car that are easy to do yourself, no car this old is worth it if you have to pay for mechanic work, but they are great if you can do most things yourself and most jobs on LS400 are easy!
and yes, the red and the green was coolant, not transmission fluid, and that does need to be flushed and replaced with 50/50 mix of genuine Toyota red & distilled water
there are many jobs on this car that are easy to do yourself, no car this old is worth it if you have to pay for mechanic work, but they are great if you can do most things yourself and most jobs on LS400 are easy!
Last edited by LScowboyLS; 06-22-13 at 02:31 PM.