1996 ls400, new trani or new mounts??
05-13-12, 05:16 PM
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1996 ls400, new trani or new mounts??
Hey guys,
So I bought this 1996 Lexus ls400 from a guy for 4 grand when I was down in Arizona at school. An hour after I bought it, it overheats due to a failing clutch fan. The alternator and radiator were also replaced when it was taken to the shop. I got it back, after about $1,500 in repairs, and the dam check engine light comes on after about an hour of driving (and I was keeping my foot out of it, scared it was going to break). took it back, they got a transmission code and checked it out to see that there were some metal flaking and dust in the transmission pan, which means the transmission is going out. We had them flush the transmission oil and filter, got it back and the engine light was off (as we had expected).
Recently ive been driving A LOT, all freeway though, and it was all good until two nights ago, when the light came on. I drove a bit that night, and I drove home, and about five hours later I started it up, backed down my driveway, and as I put it from park into reverse, there was a loud thud. I went into neutral, it was good, and then when I put it in drive it made another loud thud! As I drive, it makes those noises when it shifts, and when I break the steering wheel rattles.
I’ve been doing some research and saw that some people have similar issues and look at the transmission mounts. I’m not sure if it’s that or the actual transmission. I took a video of me driving home from work today and published it on YouTube, here’s the link:
^^ it’s kind of quiet but you can see the camera shake when it shifts
im guessing its a combination of the two? not sure, but does anyone know of a good site i can go to find a transmission rebuild kit? or have any suggestions at all... im new to lexus's and i love this ls400. want it to be runnin strong soon!
thanks guys
So I bought this 1996 Lexus ls400 from a guy for 4 grand when I was down in Arizona at school. An hour after I bought it, it overheats due to a failing clutch fan. The alternator and radiator were also replaced when it was taken to the shop. I got it back, after about $1,500 in repairs, and the dam check engine light comes on after about an hour of driving (and I was keeping my foot out of it, scared it was going to break). took it back, they got a transmission code and checked it out to see that there were some metal flaking and dust in the transmission pan, which means the transmission is going out. We had them flush the transmission oil and filter, got it back and the engine light was off (as we had expected).
Recently ive been driving A LOT, all freeway though, and it was all good until two nights ago, when the light came on. I drove a bit that night, and I drove home, and about five hours later I started it up, backed down my driveway, and as I put it from park into reverse, there was a loud thud. I went into neutral, it was good, and then when I put it in drive it made another loud thud! As I drive, it makes those noises when it shifts, and when I break the steering wheel rattles.
I’ve been doing some research and saw that some people have similar issues and look at the transmission mounts. I’m not sure if it’s that or the actual transmission. I took a video of me driving home from work today and published it on YouTube, here’s the link:
im guessing its a combination of the two? not sure, but does anyone know of a good site i can go to find a transmission rebuild kit? or have any suggestions at all... im new to lexus's and i love this ls400. want it to be runnin strong soon!
thanks guys
05-13-12, 08:57 PM
#2
Ok ,, couple of things,,
In reading your post, do you know what fluid was used when the tranny fluid was changed?? Reason I asked is because Lexus tranny's are VERY sensitive to their fluid and if the incorrect fluid is used CAN produce the irratic bahavior you are experiencing. Lexus transmissions use Toyota transmission fluid only, or one that is the equivalent. I know it has been mentioned on these forums before, just cant remember what it is. Being a 96, it uses Toyota Type IV trans fluid IIRC.
You also stated that you had the tranny "flushed" when the fluid was changed. with a higher mileage car, this is NEVER a good idea; especially if you are not aware of the service history of the car. Flushing a high mileage tranny can actualy damage a trans further. Flushing uses a machine which will, for lack of beter phrasing, blast any and all contaminants out of the tranny. ONly problem is that the older a tranny gets, some of this "gunk", may actually beneficial to a higher mileage tranny, as it has gotten used to working with SOME of the contaimanent. Flush it all out and the tranny, literally, doesn't know how to act. You can literally burn the tranny out due to wrong fluid. Higher mileage cars benefit from just a simple "Drain and fill". works pretty much like changing your oil, but the only thing(unless you drop the trans pan) is that you are only gonna get about 2 qts with each drain. This will require you to "drain and fill" about 4 times over several weeks to ensure that you have fresh fluid through out the entire system,, in the pan as well as in circulation.
Cheap diagnosis, before you start to throw money at it,,drain the trans fluid that is actually in there now (unless you know for a fact that the fluid is genuine Toyota fluid), and refill using the correct fluid. Provided that your tranny is not too far gone (shaving ARE the first sign), then your problem SHOULD disappear. Most shops, unless YOU supply them with that specifically, don't really know to use it because MOST work off of the premise that a tranny is just a tranny; wrong.
With the shaking,, is it ONLY when you brake or all the time? Could be engine/tranny mount, bushing, warped rotors, tires out of balance,, a number of things. Need to try to provide as much info so we can point you in the right direction.
In reading your post, do you know what fluid was used when the tranny fluid was changed?? Reason I asked is because Lexus tranny's are VERY sensitive to their fluid and if the incorrect fluid is used CAN produce the irratic bahavior you are experiencing. Lexus transmissions use Toyota transmission fluid only, or one that is the equivalent. I know it has been mentioned on these forums before, just cant remember what it is. Being a 96, it uses Toyota Type IV trans fluid IIRC.
You also stated that you had the tranny "flushed" when the fluid was changed. with a higher mileage car, this is NEVER a good idea; especially if you are not aware of the service history of the car. Flushing a high mileage tranny can actualy damage a trans further. Flushing uses a machine which will, for lack of beter phrasing, blast any and all contaminants out of the tranny. ONly problem is that the older a tranny gets, some of this "gunk", may actually beneficial to a higher mileage tranny, as it has gotten used to working with SOME of the contaimanent. Flush it all out and the tranny, literally, doesn't know how to act. You can literally burn the tranny out due to wrong fluid. Higher mileage cars benefit from just a simple "Drain and fill". works pretty much like changing your oil, but the only thing(unless you drop the trans pan) is that you are only gonna get about 2 qts with each drain. This will require you to "drain and fill" about 4 times over several weeks to ensure that you have fresh fluid through out the entire system,, in the pan as well as in circulation.
Cheap diagnosis, before you start to throw money at it,,drain the trans fluid that is actually in there now (unless you know for a fact that the fluid is genuine Toyota fluid), and refill using the correct fluid. Provided that your tranny is not too far gone (shaving ARE the first sign), then your problem SHOULD disappear. Most shops, unless YOU supply them with that specifically, don't really know to use it because MOST work off of the premise that a tranny is just a tranny; wrong.
With the shaking,, is it ONLY when you brake or all the time? Could be engine/tranny mount, bushing, warped rotors, tires out of balance,, a number of things. Need to try to provide as much info so we can point you in the right direction.
05-14-12, 02:26 AM
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I'm sorry to hear of your troubles and unfortunately, I'm going through the same woes. I recently purchased a 97 from Cali and brought it back to Phoenix. For approximately 300-400 miles it appeared to be a solid car with a nice stack of lexus repairs/maintenance. However, I began to experience exactly what you are experiencing while placing it in REVERSE and DRIVE...
Here is what I have tried and the results....
Replaced the rear diff bushing because it was busted and you could see enormous amounts of play, thus the thud. That was a great fix for a few days. My motor mounts and trans mount is also new.
Next, I decided I wanted to check out the condition of the trans fluid and ensure it was drained and filled with only Toyota type IV. So 4.5 quarts was drained out with the pan off and the front jacked up only. I made a minor adjustment to the transmission accelerator cable and completed the service. I REALLY thought I had resolved the issue. There were no more hard gear selections or thuds. The car even felt as though it had more power and much quieter!
I'm sad to report that those attempts have resulted in "back to square one." It took approximately 300-350 miles to see the same old behavior....so unfortunately, I believe the previous owner did not disclose everything as I found extra trans pan seals under the spare tire and the mileage matches up for issues that arose.
As a final attempt, I replaced that TPS unit. I was advised by a lexus specialist that it was either the cable adjustment, worn TPS, or a trans that needed replacement.
I hope this helps a little. I will be dropping my car off to a Lexus/Toyota specialist shop and let them give the there final diagnosis, but I'm prepared for a new trans at this point. To top it off though, my car started smoking on startup out of no where today.....Valve seals it appears at this point....I beginning to believe these cars are just money pits!
Here is what I have tried and the results....
Replaced the rear diff bushing because it was busted and you could see enormous amounts of play, thus the thud. That was a great fix for a few days. My motor mounts and trans mount is also new.
Next, I decided I wanted to check out the condition of the trans fluid and ensure it was drained and filled with only Toyota type IV. So 4.5 quarts was drained out with the pan off and the front jacked up only. I made a minor adjustment to the transmission accelerator cable and completed the service. I REALLY thought I had resolved the issue. There were no more hard gear selections or thuds. The car even felt as though it had more power and much quieter!
I'm sad to report that those attempts have resulted in "back to square one." It took approximately 300-350 miles to see the same old behavior....so unfortunately, I believe the previous owner did not disclose everything as I found extra trans pan seals under the spare tire and the mileage matches up for issues that arose.
As a final attempt, I replaced that TPS unit. I was advised by a lexus specialist that it was either the cable adjustment, worn TPS, or a trans that needed replacement.
I hope this helps a little. I will be dropping my car off to a Lexus/Toyota specialist shop and let them give the there final diagnosis, but I'm prepared for a new trans at this point. To top it off though, my car started smoking on startup out of no where today.....Valve seals it appears at this point....I beginning to believe these cars are just money pits!
05-14-12, 07:28 PM
#4
In the OP's problem, he is experiencing more of what would seem to be incorrect fluid in the trans as the vid he posted and from what he describes, would advise me to have him check and refill with the correct fluid first.
Huffju,,, in your case, the thud sound between switching gears sounds very much like what my 92 did before sold her. Here is a part that is VERY MUCH overlooked and was what solved my problem. I felt like a real idiot for not suspecting it earlier. You may need to replace the drive shaft bushing. Remember, these cars ARE getting up in age and this most likely has never been addressed. I know that on my 92, when I changed mine earlier this year, by the condition of the bushing, it was most assuridly the original one still. Remember this IS a rubber part as well, and as all will do over time and use, WILL deteriorate with age . Here is a pic of what mine looked like when I changed it. Notice the pits and chews in it; def no good. Once I had changed this, and I did all of the same things you did as well, the thud betwen shifts disappeared. I know you changed the rear diff bushing, but these are 2 differnt things. You can find this part for a pretty reasonable price online and it MAY just solve your problem,, if not still not a bad idea to change. Before you drop the money for a new trans, and this should only be as a last alternative b/c these tranny's are ALMOST (not impossible) to kill, give this a shot. I,, like yourself, had been prepared to shell out for a new trans due to the thudding as well.
Question,, do you have a power steering leak. Puff of smoke on start is common with PS leak. Check the sticky section for the "PS Bible" for more info. Properly maintained LS is a dream to own,, gotta remember that the cars are aging, and require a bit more maintenance to bring up to date. Once done,, have some fun with it. It CAN, in the process of doing what is needed from neglect/misuse/ etc seem to be a money pit while going thru the motions. I completely agree.
Huffju,,, in your case, the thud sound between switching gears sounds very much like what my 92 did before sold her. Here is a part that is VERY MUCH overlooked and was what solved my problem. I felt like a real idiot for not suspecting it earlier. You may need to replace the drive shaft bushing. Remember, these cars ARE getting up in age and this most likely has never been addressed. I know that on my 92, when I changed mine earlier this year, by the condition of the bushing, it was most assuridly the original one still. Remember this IS a rubber part as well, and as all will do over time and use, WILL deteriorate with age . Here is a pic of what mine looked like when I changed it. Notice the pits and chews in it; def no good. Once I had changed this, and I did all of the same things you did as well, the thud betwen shifts disappeared. I know you changed the rear diff bushing, but these are 2 differnt things. You can find this part for a pretty reasonable price online and it MAY just solve your problem,, if not still not a bad idea to change. Before you drop the money for a new trans, and this should only be as a last alternative b/c these tranny's are ALMOST (not impossible) to kill, give this a shot. I,, like yourself, had been prepared to shell out for a new trans due to the thudding as well.
To top it off though, my car started smoking on startup out of no where today.....Valve seals it appears at this point....I beginning to believe these cars are just money pits!
Last edited by trukn1; 05-14-12 at 07:44 PM.
05-20-12, 12:13 AM
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Thank you for those tidbits. In fact, I am aware of my driveshaft bushings needing to be replaced. They are both cracked in multiple areas. However, I'm not sold on that as a fix to my overall issue. I will certainly be replacing them, but just as general repair in mind.
Please keep in mind, car has 217k miles on it. Most parts have been replaced once, but not all. So as it turns out, many parts are due to be repaired for round 2. All of this in mind drives me to want to sell it and purchase a lower mileage 98+ for all of the money I'm dumping into this 97....I estimate I will have 10k+ in this car once I am done...not including my 3k in wheels.
My PS does have a leak minor leak. I will certainly check up on the PS Bible...Thank you.
One side note to add...My neighbor and I were talking about the fact that I had used a large amount of fuel system cleaner with low fuel content the day that the car began to smoke. I have not driven the car since that day due to other suspension repairs I am making. (Replacing all lower control arm bushing and installing STANCE coilovers).....but I will add more fuel in the morning and recheck the symptom over the next few days. When I fired it up today, it barely was noticeable....JFYI *shrug*
Please keep in mind, car has 217k miles on it. Most parts have been replaced once, but not all. So as it turns out, many parts are due to be repaired for round 2. All of this in mind drives me to want to sell it and purchase a lower mileage 98+ for all of the money I'm dumping into this 97....I estimate I will have 10k+ in this car once I am done...not including my 3k in wheels.
My PS does have a leak minor leak. I will certainly check up on the PS Bible...Thank you.
One side note to add...My neighbor and I were talking about the fact that I had used a large amount of fuel system cleaner with low fuel content the day that the car began to smoke. I have not driven the car since that day due to other suspension repairs I am making. (Replacing all lower control arm bushing and installing STANCE coilovers).....but I will add more fuel in the morning and recheck the symptom over the next few days. When I fired it up today, it barely was noticeable....JFYI *shrug*
Last edited by huffju; 05-20-12 at 12:42 AM. Reason: add notes
05-20-12, 08:54 AM
#7
Does the 2LS have the same drive shaft bushing? I was not able to find it on Sewell catalog.
Editted: Got it, under a different name. FLEXIBLE COUPLING 3751150040
Editted: Got it, under a different name. FLEXIBLE COUPLING 3751150040
In the OP's problem, he is experiencing more of what would seem to be incorrect fluid in the trans as the vid he posted and from what he describes, would advise me to have him check and refill with the correct fluid first.
Huffju,,, in your case, the thud sound between switching gears sounds very much like what my 92 did before sold her. Here is a part that is VERY MUCH overlooked and was what solved my problem. I felt like a real idiot for not suspecting it earlier. You may need to replace the drive shaft bushing. Remember, these cars ARE getting up in age and this most likely has never been addressed. I know that on my 92, when I changed mine earlier this year, by the condition of the bushing, it was most assuridly the original one still. Remember this IS a rubber part as well, and as all will do over time and use, WILL deteriorate with age . Here is a pic of what mine looked like when I changed it. Notice the pits and chews in it; def no good. Once I had changed this, and I did all of the same things you did as well, the thud betwen shifts disappeared. I know you changed the rear diff bushing, but these are 2 differnt things. You can find this part for a pretty reasonable price online and it MAY just solve your problem,, if not still not a bad idea to change. Before you drop the money for a new trans, and this should only be as a last alternative b/c these tranny's are ALMOST (not impossible) to kill, give this a shot. I,, like yourself, had been prepared to shell out for a new trans due to the thudding as well.
Question,, do you have a power steering leak. Puff of smoke on start is common with PS leak. Check the sticky section for the "PS Bible" for more info. Properly maintained LS is a dream to own,, gotta remember that the cars are aging, and require a bit more maintenance to bring up to date. Once done,, have some fun with it. It CAN, in the process of doing what is needed from neglect/misuse/ etc seem to be a money pit while going thru the motions. I completely agree.
Huffju,,, in your case, the thud sound between switching gears sounds very much like what my 92 did before sold her. Here is a part that is VERY MUCH overlooked and was what solved my problem. I felt like a real idiot for not suspecting it earlier. You may need to replace the drive shaft bushing. Remember, these cars ARE getting up in age and this most likely has never been addressed. I know that on my 92, when I changed mine earlier this year, by the condition of the bushing, it was most assuridly the original one still. Remember this IS a rubber part as well, and as all will do over time and use, WILL deteriorate with age . Here is a pic of what mine looked like when I changed it. Notice the pits and chews in it; def no good. Once I had changed this, and I did all of the same things you did as well, the thud betwen shifts disappeared. I know you changed the rear diff bushing, but these are 2 differnt things. You can find this part for a pretty reasonable price online and it MAY just solve your problem,, if not still not a bad idea to change. Before you drop the money for a new trans, and this should only be as a last alternative b/c these tranny's are ALMOST (not impossible) to kill, give this a shot. I,, like yourself, had been prepared to shell out for a new trans due to the thudding as well.
Question,, do you have a power steering leak. Puff of smoke on start is common with PS leak. Check the sticky section for the "PS Bible" for more info. Properly maintained LS is a dream to own,, gotta remember that the cars are aging, and require a bit more maintenance to bring up to date. Once done,, have some fun with it. It CAN, in the process of doing what is needed from neglect/misuse/ etc seem to be a money pit while going thru the motions. I completely agree.
Last edited by dashan; 05-20-12 at 08:58 AM.
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05-21-12, 08:02 PM
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sorry havent replied in a bit, my cars been driving fine. it shifts ok, just the shutter on deceleration and when i brake still, as well as the thud on drive, reverse, and when it shifts. you guys think it is just oil?
the check engine code says it is the transmission, but it shifts pretty good still and mostly thuds when i put it in drive and reverse. it also runs worst when cold.. I'm thinkin that it may be a problem in the U joint, going to look into that too.
any other thoughts??
the check engine code says it is the transmission, but it shifts pretty good still and mostly thuds when i put it in drive and reverse. it also runs worst when cold.. I'm thinkin that it may be a problem in the U joint, going to look into that too.
any other thoughts??
05-22-12, 11:49 AM
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Make no mistake, I'm not a "broke, must modify everything, irrational individual"...though thank you for your "deep" inquisition and fatherly tone.
Just came from the shop and they do not believe it is at all the transmission. I will follow up in a few days after I try a couple of suggestion from the owner. He has specialized in Lexus for over 20 years and owns a LS of his own. So hopefully we are on the right track to resolving this oddity.
05-22-12, 11:58 AM
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sorry havent replied in a bit, my cars been driving fine. it shifts ok, just the shutter on deceleration and when i brake still, as well as the thud on drive, reverse, and when it shifts. you guys think it is just oil?
the check engine code says it is the transmission, but it shifts pretty good still and mostly thuds when i put it in drive and reverse. it also runs worst when cold.. I'm thinkin that it may be a problem in the U joint, going to look into that too.
any other thoughts??
the check engine code says it is the transmission, but it shifts pretty good still and mostly thuds when i put it in drive and reverse. it also runs worst when cold.. I'm thinkin that it may be a problem in the U joint, going to look into that too.
any other thoughts??
Best of luck
05-22-12, 02:06 PM
#11
You mean installed coilovers and new front bushings.... Yes, because all items are being addressed and due to the fact that my struts were also blown, they should be upgraded. If items are broke, I replace them...fairly simple logic
Make no mistake, I'm not a "broke, must modify everything, irrational individual"...though thank you for your "deep" inquisition and fatherly tone.
Make no mistake, I'm not a "broke, must modify everything, irrational individual"...though thank you for your "deep" inquisition and fatherly tone.
Second: If something is broken, I too believe it needs to be fixed. But in my book a working transmission is slightly more important than your shocks being in good condition.
Last edited by SpencerT; 05-23-12 at 02:52 PM. Reason: because
05-24-12, 06:35 PM
#12
Gentlemen,, we would like to keep this discussion on a fairly friendly level. Please hold off on the "borderline" attcks on one another. OP has asked for help with a problem and we are here trying to give him areas in which to address. Personal feelings concerning the manner in which he maintains HIS car need not be a factor in this thread.
Thank you!!
Thank you!!
06-01-12, 03:37 PM
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So i swapped the transmission, it was slipping really bad. got one with less than 50k and it runs great! problem is... it still knocks/lurkes when i put into reverse and drive from neutral. it also thuds a little when it shifts sometimes.. but i can tell the actual transmission is shifting fine. anyone know what this could be from?
06-01-12, 04:12 PM
#14
As I suggested before,, check your driveshaft bushing, is what cured my ailement when my 92 did the same thing. Also check your rear differential bushings. Pretty common fail items and is what may help.
