Japanimal

In last month's Automobile mag(the one with the Enzo/F60 on the cover) they stated that Lexus is planning to release a special edition 5.0L 360HP LS430 in the next 2 or 3 years. They also said that the engine might be used to power the Toyota F/X concept when it goes into production. Anyone have more info about this? I guess this means that the next gen GS will have a 5.0L as well?? With 360HP and 5.0L of displacement shouldn't that engine be good for about 380-400 lb-ft??....Maybe similar nubers to the TOM's 5.0L Lex V8??

JBrady

Japanimal, interesting and good information but still, that may not be enough. Infiniti already has 340hp, BMW has 333hp in a 6 cyl and 400hp in the V8 M5, Mercedes offers 355hp in the current E55, S55, CLK55 and the NEW E55 and SL55 have 490hp supercharged V8s and they are releasing a TWIN TURBO V12 :eek: :eek: :eek:

Even Audi is introducing the 450hp TT 4.2 liter V8 RS6 for 2003. Jaguar has a supercharged V8.

In my opinion... Lexus is going to loose market share of the performance buyer if they don't step up with better than that. The SMART move in my opinion would be a super/turbocharged V8 in the 450-500hp range. I like the 5 liter idea but feel it should be the standard LS/GS engine NOT a special edition.

Otherwise, Lexus could end up like Acura. Remember, Acura INVENTED the Japanese luxury sedan market with the Legend. Failure to stay competitive when Lexus showed up and the RL is not even tested against these models anymore...

Lvangundy

I dunno, my opinion on this is that Lexus is somewhat batting an eye on the whole luxury performance thing. It's like they don't know an aftermarket world exists (of course they do, just seems like it). Why didn't they bump up power for the 2002/03 years just to ATTEMPT to compete?

It's pretty late in the game for them to try and step up, especially if we're planning on not seeing anything until 2004 or 2005. Honestly standing from a neutral ground, it's quite disappointing. ;-(

JBrady

Here is a link to info on the 450hp Audi :eek:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/index.asp

jimmit

There was a discussion on this on the SC forum too. Lexus really needs to get more power in their cars. The 92-00 SC were great in every aspect but they really lost with power. The V8 was putting put between 240 to 290HP while others could do way more and that really is the only downside. Although Lexus make REALLY awesome cars but they really do lack power. I never could figure out why no SC came to the US with turbo like they had in japan. If Lexus came out with a 5.0L standard and have a supercharged or turboed edition as an option would really heat up the compitetion with benz and BMW. I wouldnt mind driving a 6.0L V12 twin turbo SC600TT or a LS600TT. That would really get more people attracted. I say its about damn time for Lexus to step up into the 5.0L market. I still wish they had the original SC shape with a 5.0L V8 and a 6.0L V12. That would make the cars feel more like once you get it you know you're at the top of the world. Then I think the SC would be worth at least 60K. Thats my opinion tho

SW03ES

My feeling always was that Lexus traded in higher horsepower, and things like turbo and superchargers in favor of more reliable engines.

oac3

Wait a minute everyone: How many people bought their LS because it was a great performance vehicle ? I dunno about many of you, but the greater majority of LS owners are NOT on CL and probably won't place performance at the top of their reason for owning an LS.... Stuff like reliability, comfort, luxury, super quiet engine, serene environment inside the car, superb braking and handling, decent to good acceleration, competitive prices compared to its competitors, etc.. are what continues to sell LS cars, not that the engine can match the BMW or Mercedes engines. If it is the case, why is Lexus focusing on luxo features at the expense of engine/hp/torque enhancements ? i.e. the custom-lux and UL options on the new model vehicles ??? Comfort and luxury at an affordable price SELLS..... OTOH, Mercedes and BMW focus on performance and luxury but at what price points ???? Tens of thousands more just to get 100HP more ? And since our freeways are not autobahns, how many people will ever get to drive their 400+HP powered cars higher than 90MPH ? Few indeed.....

Throw in an ultra conservative Japanese culture, then you might expect Lexus to just wait awhile until they have a really good engine to compete with the Bimmers and the Merc's in the 5.0L and higher engine class. Until then, Lexus will continue to trade reliability for performance. And they will continue to increase market share at the expense of the Mercs and Bimmers.

How else did Lexus get to its upper tier status in the luxury vehicle class ? Certainly NOT based on engine performance, but more on a super reliable car, with great interior luxury features and nice touches all around, delivering a competitive vehicle at an affordable price point for the consumer.

brian3268

Abcedefghij

jimmit

I do agree that Lexus made a smart move by keeping their engine at what was needed and not over doing it. I also agree they gave up performance for realiability. I'm just using benz and BMWs as examples but when you see a V12 or a V12TT on the side f a car thats when you know that whoever is in that car has made it. Its almost like a symbol. I'm not saying they should do it just to show off but its something, I think, lots of people look for. Having lots of power and a big engine shows character to the car and what its able to do. Like I saw on autoweek or motortrend of something car show....."its not the amount of horsepower the car can put out....its just the sheer thought of its ability". Just knowing your can has 600+ HP does something to you. I'm not talking about someone that bought the car for its good super quiet ride and its reliable engine. thats why car makes also make basically the same car with a much smaller engine(E55 AMG and E320). If the car excells in everything why not power as well? Why should it lack anything? Of course this is just what I think but I'm sure everyone else will have very different thoughts. Thats also why most you probably drive an LS and I drive an SC. Just because they produce a V12 LS600 doesnt mean everyone will go out and buy it. Those who can afford it and want that kind of power would own one. I see so many S430 and S500 but rarely see any S600s or even S55 AMGs. Not everyone cars about power but those who do wont settle anything less.

Lvangundy

Hmm..

Another point is to look at all Lexus models over the ten year period. All of them have gained some speed, at least one second off the 0-60 times.

And also, confirmed by a dealer the IS300 5 speed sold very few numbers compared to the auto.

JBrady

I agree on many of the points made regarding "smooth, quiet, reliable" but look at the ad campaign for the GS400 when it first came out... POWER, SPEED, EXCITMENT...

Now, most LS owners are happy with the power and will NEVER push their car. Most S class Mercedes are the 430 model with 275hp, slower than 98 on LS400s but enough power for most.

Obviously NOT enough for some, MB sells the 500, the 55, the 600 and now the SC55 and TT600. Too much is never enough for some.

BUT, the LS430 is the Flagship of Lexus. One engine = limited prestige. Toyota had a V12 in Japan in the Celsior (I don't know if it is still made). They should offer a limited edition LS600 V12 model. A limited edition GS should be available with AT LEAST the 4.7 liter tuned to AT LEAST 350hp.

Having "exclusive" models available would both attract the performance addict, the image addict, and get the attention of the German Mark buyer who still feels (in the words of a friend of mine who drives MBs) the Lexus is "just" a Toyota.

LexFather

The 4.3 engine is very de-tuned. The old 4.0 could make 400hp (ala the Lexus Hot Rod) with not much tuning. The new engine can make 360 EAAAAAAAAAAASY....THANKFULLY, Lexus has stayed out the HP WAR crap unlike everyone else.

I guess it goes faster to break down quicker or something....

JBrady

Sick, you are right that these are detuned engines. But, I am surprised that you are happy that Lexus is not making more power? With vvti technology the only time the extra power is causing any extra wear is at high RPM. Otherwise, there is no reliability compromise.

Heck, my 4.0 is making 300hp through a pea shooter 1.85" ID center resonator... well, for now anyway...

Japanimal

I'd rather "just drive a Toyota", than drive an MB/Chrysler anyday...just one man's opinion. I love BMW's....hate beamer dealership's....and their prices. I've got nothing bad to say about Audi....except the black plastic panel on the bottom of the new A4 looks like S#!%. I think the sales numbers on the Q45 speak for themselves!

Rob L

Why does it matter?

The attitude of us North AMericans concerning "more power" is sickening.

Do you people realize the amount of oil in the world is not unlimited? It's been said the amount of oil left will run out in the next 25-50 years...having cars with 450+hp that get 15 or so mpg does not help that out.

And to the person that says having a carw ith a V12 or whatever odd HP is a symbol that "you've made it"....give me a break. Owning an LS430 is a pretty good symbol that you've got some bucks...and even if it wasn't, so what? I didn't know the whole point of life was to try and show off your wealth via a car.

BTW, I know some people who are easily worth multi millions that drive cars like Honda Accrods. A car means pretty much jack with regard to your financial situation.....except of course you feel the need to try and show your wealth off, which IMO, is stupid.