oac3

Hello everyone:

I need some help. In May this year I bought a loaded '99 LS. Had the carfax pulled on it with no problems identified whatsoever. Yesterday, I took the car to the dealership for its 60K service. Got a call this morning that the car had been in a frontal accident and had damages to the front suspension, strut bars, and stuff around it. I was just in shock and couldn't just believe what I was hearing... How can that be ? I mean, how is it that carfax failed to pick this accident up ? Where else can a buyer find information on accidents if not from Carfax ? The dealership told me that the repair work must have been done in a non-Lexus shop ! So ??? Does work done at independent body shops not traceable with teh VIN of the car ? I am confused here, and I need your help desperately.

The second part of my post deals with the cost of repairing this problems. The dealership estimate is $1600. Is that typical for replacing bent strut bars, front suspension shocks, some bearings and wheel alignment ? BTW, the car drives fine to me, maybe the suspension appears a little soft to me and I mentioned this to the service tech. at the Lexus dealership yesterday for them to check up. I noticed no noise coming from the suspension, yet they tell me there is some noise... It is unbelievable to me ! I have been driving this car for 5 weeks and have never heard a single sound from outside or inside the car. I occassionally have the windows down so I should have heard it...

Finally, the final part of my post deals with the dealership where I bought the car from. It is a Toyota dealership in LA. If it turns out that the car did indeed have an accident, how culpable are they in not informing me of this at purchase time ? Are they by law required to provide this information to me ? Is there any recourse I have with them paying to fix this or having them fix this instead of me paying for it ?

Any help, opinions, suggestions, etc are highly appreciated. As you can tell, I am pretty bummed out on this !

SharpLS-96

If the previous owner didn't report the accident to his insurance carrier or the police or DMV then carfax wouldn't pick it up. The owner likely fixed it on his own so then there will be no trace of the accident through carfax or DMV or any other vehicle service check. Also, if the car was never registered or insured at the time of the accident then the repair was an out of pocket expense. Carfax collects their data from DMV and insurance carriers.

When buying a used car you should always go through it with a fine toothbrush regardless of who is selling it (Dealerships or private parties) , especially having the car put on a lift and checking the frame, looking for overspray on the body lines etc. Sometimes carfax will pay you if you can prove that in deed there is written documentation with DMV or with an insurance company that a previous accident did exist and carfax failed to pick it up. http://www.carfax.com/cfm/hctermsanddef.cfm


Dealerships are not required to tell you if the car was in an accident unless it was written off as a total loss by an insurance company making the vehicle unroadly and a safety hazard. In your case there isn’t documentation showing the previous damage. Plus if there are no records of an accident then they are not liable of misinforming you but I would raise hell anyway.

Try to find out where the dealership got the car from. A trade in or a private party or an auction.


Remember, they are in the business of "selling" but it would be nice if they did inform the consumer!


If you bought it from a dealership you should have some type of warranty. Tell them of your findings and to call your Lexus dealership since they are the same company or your going to notify the BBB and the consumer complaint department. Try to first handle in a civil manner before you start threatening them. I would think they would want to work with you but you never know. If not absorbing the complete repair then maybe them paying for parts and you labor or you paying cost for parts and them absorbing the labor for repairs etc. I am sure you get the gist of it. :eek:

Good luck and let me know what happens.

oac3

Thanks, Sharp...

I am trying to work this out through BOTH dealerships. I called the Sales manager at the Toyota dealership where I purchased the car and had him call the lexus dealership where the car is being serviced. I specifically wanted the former to sort this out with the Lexus dealership. When I bought the car, they warranteed it for 60 days, and I am solidly within the 60-day warranty period. Hopefully, it will be resolved amicably.

BTW, the Toyota dealership told me damage resulting from a previous accident had to be far worse than $1600 for an LS, and that maybe the Lexus dealership was trying to sell me a lemon to rip me off. Standard practice when you take your car in for a simple oil chagne and they suddenly "found" all sorts of things wrong with your car for much more $$$ to jack their revenues up.

I will keep you informed of progress or resolution.

SharpLS-96

Also,

Run your VIN through www.autocheck.com and see if this company comes up with anything.

oac3

after calls between the two dealerships, the resolution is as follows:

I get the 'estimate' from the Lexus dealership, pick my car up and drive it over to the Toyota dealership. The latter will inspect and see if indeed there are problems as found by the other dealership. If any problems are found, the Toyota dealership will fix my car, give me a rental car until the work is completed. So far, no one has told me if I would be responsible for any cost. One dealership is balking at letting me walk out w/out a $1600 work (Lexus), while the other is looking at how to manouver itself out of a possible 'free' repair on a car. It's gonna get very interesting tomorrow when I go get my car.

Meanwhile, I am thoroughly enjoying the RX loaner I got. It is sure a fun 'car' to drive around.

More updates to follow tomorrow (Friday)...

ps: was there ever a TSB on the operation of the outside mirrors tilting up and down with the car in D or R, respectively ? Lexus dealership claims they will fix my malfunctioning passenger-side mirror on warranty due to a 'known' problem from Lexus ! Hmmmm... they made it sound like they were doing me a favor (in return for letting them fix the suspension work for $1600) as the service rep reminded me that technically, my car is out of warranty at 61K miles.

oac3

And so it passed that it was afterall a ruse to skim $$$ off me by the Lexus dealership.... There was nothing, absolutely NOTHING wrong with the car. No accident, no damages, no suspension problem, NOTHING wrong.

So what did happen ?

While dropping off the car on Wednesday for the 60K mile service, I commented that maybe they should check the suspension. It appeared soft to me. The Lexus dealership figured out an avenue to make more money from me. So they claimed that they were ordering a computer ECU to fix my passenger-side mirror not returning back to pre-set when the car goes into Drive. And the ECU unit would not be available until Friday, two days later. I could smell they were onto something but I could never have guessed where they were going. Here are what Lexus dealership quoted needed replacing:

Arm assy, suspension $335.49
Bar Asy, Strut, Left $66.95
Arm sub-assy, suspension $206.93
Support assy, FR S $103.10
Absorber assy, SHO 74.98
Bracket, sub-assy, $110.91
Labor $672
Total $1639.98 + TAX

I asked them to fax me a copy of the estimate, they said they would but never did. The Toyota dealership wanted to make things right for me, besides I had a 6-month warranty with the car that covered major components including the suspension. So I took the car over to them and we hoisted it up and took a good long look. Turned out there was absolutely no bent struts, the suspension system was intact, solid and had no problem. We looked everywhere with a flashlight, every nook and cranny, we turned up nothing. A technician took the car for a test drive, found the car drove straight as an arrow, no noise from the suspension, no floatiness to the ride, nothing out of the ordinary. We checked all the VIN stickers on all parts of the hood, they were original and could not have been there if the car had been in accident and these body parts had been replaced.

I was infuriated. How could the Lexus dealership lie to me this way ? I mean, they simply expected me to agree to the so-called suspension repair and ask no questions ? Interesting note: at the Lexus dealership, I asked to speak to the technician that actually worked on my car. The response: "well, he is busy right now and cannot come to talk to you, is there anything I can answer for you ?" I knew they were stonewalling, knowing that I was going to get a second opinion and actually find out they have been caught in a lie... They even lied in the print out of the work they did, they claimed my brakes (front and rear) had 40% left. At the Toyota dealership, we re-checked and found the front had 90% left, and the rear had 75%. I am at a point where I believe the Lexus dealership simply took my money and did nothing !

As to the mirror repair they promised to fix with an ECU chip order. They claimed the replaced computer chip did NOT fix my mirror problem. I will need a new mirror assembly. Cost: $400 + labor + tax. Talk about rip-off artists !!! They were bummed that I was taking my car away to another dealership to be checked out and instead of honoring their promise to fix the mirror, they balked and lied that the fix didn't work. I said I'd like them to show me what they replaced and how it didn't work, they said they cannot since it would mean taking the thing apart.... Just a bunch of bull ! I got fed up and just paid the $600 for the service and left.

I plan to call up the Lexus dealership GM or Service manager to report the incident. If I am not satisfied, I will call Toyota Motor Corp, or Lexus to complain of the bad tactic used by this dealership.

The Lexus dealership is TUSTIN LEXUS....

I guess, all is well that ends well. I am happy that my car is fine and have not had these problems. I am a happy camper now. Just to check things again. On my way back home, I had the car at 90mph and it drove straight, no alignment issue whatsoever.

Thanks Sharp for your timely help. I truly appreciate it.

kreativ

I've heard bad things about Tustin Lexus before.

By the way, Lexus Headquarters is right in Torrance.

SharpLS-96

Glad to hear that everything worked out in your favor.

What did they do that you had to pay $600 to Tustin Lexus? I hope that included a timing belt change at 60k.

Most dealerships make more money from the service department then from the new car department. Rip off artists! If your knowledgable about cars next time you go to any repair facilty only specify what you want done. Don't leave it up to them otherwise they will take you for an arm and a leg.

Also, if you need anything done by Lexus in the future try to have Longo Lexus do the work.

oac3

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SharpLS-96
<Glad to hear that everything worked out in your favor>

Same here. And thanks for your insightful tips. Once again, I truly appreciate them.

<What did they do that you had to pay $600 to Tustin Lexus? I hope that included a timing belt change at 60k>

That did NOT include timing belt change which is not due until the 90K service. Turns out that Tustin quoted the lowest 60K mile service of 5 dealerships - Carlsbad, Kearney Mesa, Bob Baker, Mission Viejo and Tustin. I had originally wanted to use Longo but somehow chose Tustin due to the distance (Longo was another 20 miles or so farther). Next time I will suck it up and take the extra mileage to Longo. My regrets now.

The 60K mile serivce also did not include changing spark plugs, those are left to the 90K HUGE service charge.

Here were the quotes I received for the 60K service:

carlsbad - $702
Karney mesa - $1002
Bob Baker - $776
Mission Viejo - $840
Tustin - $565

So I chose Tustin.... and that is the last time. I have put together a 3-page letter to the GM at Tustin copied to the GM at the Toyota dealership. Incidentally, both dealerships are owned by the same person....

SharpLS-96

So you bought it from Joe MacPherson.....k.

Your welcome and anytime you need help just give a shout.