Lexus vs Hyundai? Stop laughing.
05-27-02, 01:19 PM
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Lexus vs Hyundai? Stop laughing.
We owned a 1990 LS400 for 7-1/2 years, and a 1999 LS400 for 3 years, before selling it last week, so we have become quite familiar with their strengths and their quirks.
Recently, not wanting to use the 1999 LS400 as a drive-to-work rustbucket, my wife purchased a new Hyundai XG350L. She has been nice enough to let me drive it a number of times, including a 700 mile jaunt this weekend.
As background, consider also that I have had several Corvettes, a Jaguar, Cadillac, Buicks, Pontiacs, Porsche, Chevrolet Avalanche, Dodge Ram, Honda, etc. About 50 vehicles in all. My first car was a 1936 Packard purchased in 1952.
Those who are familiar with LS400 will be amazed at how the interior of the XG350 resembles it. And those of you who recall the squawks that I have had about the LS400 will be amused to hear that the Hyundai doesn't show the same quirks at all.
(Both 1990 and 1999 LS400's have absolutely awful "automatic" air conditioning systems, and the 1999 has the notorious "throttle surge" problem as well). The XG350 has several useful design features that the Lexus doesn't.
It is interesting to observe that the Hyundai XG350L can be bought for $24000 new, and has a better warranty than the Lexus. The first hint you get that this may not be just another rice box comes when you observe that the speedometer goes to 150 mph and the car has a 5-speed automatic transmission whose shifts are startlingly smooth.
You may be motivated to flame this post. Capture that energy and use it to examine and test drive the XG350L. You will find it a very illuminating experience. If you still feel like spending Lexus-like buckeroonies, buy two XG350L's, figuring that one will always be in the shop, and you'll still have as much as $10,000 or more left over for cab fare!
Recently, not wanting to use the 1999 LS400 as a drive-to-work rustbucket, my wife purchased a new Hyundai XG350L. She has been nice enough to let me drive it a number of times, including a 700 mile jaunt this weekend.
As background, consider also that I have had several Corvettes, a Jaguar, Cadillac, Buicks, Pontiacs, Porsche, Chevrolet Avalanche, Dodge Ram, Honda, etc. About 50 vehicles in all. My first car was a 1936 Packard purchased in 1952.
Those who are familiar with LS400 will be amazed at how the interior of the XG350 resembles it. And those of you who recall the squawks that I have had about the LS400 will be amused to hear that the Hyundai doesn't show the same quirks at all.
(Both 1990 and 1999 LS400's have absolutely awful "automatic" air conditioning systems, and the 1999 has the notorious "throttle surge" problem as well). The XG350 has several useful design features that the Lexus doesn't.
It is interesting to observe that the Hyundai XG350L can be bought for $24000 new, and has a better warranty than the Lexus. The first hint you get that this may not be just another rice box comes when you observe that the speedometer goes to 150 mph and the car has a 5-speed automatic transmission whose shifts are startlingly smooth.
You may be motivated to flame this post. Capture that energy and use it to examine and test drive the XG350L. You will find it a very illuminating experience. If you still feel like spending Lexus-like buckeroonies, buy two XG350L's, figuring that one will always be in the shop, and you'll still have as much as $10,000 or more left over for cab fare!
05-28-02, 01:19 AM
#4
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You're kidding right? I have driven the XG350L and while it does have a lot of features (it is a 2002 model afterall), it is NO WAY built as well as a Lexus. Give it a few months/years...you'll see...
It's also equipped with a VERY WEAK 194HP 3.5L V6....and it doesn't drive all that great IMO...how 'bout that fake wood?
Well to each his own...for $25K, I would rather buy a used LS400 over a new XG350L any day of the week! Also, their warranty is that long because it NEEDS to be...otherwise, no one would buy a Hyundai....
For $25K I would rather buy a fully decked out Camry if I was looking to spend that much on a new car...
It's also equipped with a VERY WEAK 194HP 3.5L V6....and it doesn't drive all that great IMO...how 'bout that fake wood?
Well to each his own...for $25K, I would rather buy a used LS400 over a new XG350L any day of the week! Also, their warranty is that long because it NEEDS to be...otherwise, no one would buy a Hyundai....
For $25K I would rather buy a fully decked out Camry if I was looking to spend that much on a new car...
Last edited by Manaray; 05-28-02 at 01:21 AM.
05-28-02, 06:47 AM
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The point is well taken about how the Hyundai will hold up over 5 years or 10 years. My 1990 LS400 had had NO failures at 7-1/2 years, when I traded it in on a - are you ready for this - GMC Yukon. And the 1999 LS400 had had no failures in 3 years.
The common thread on many of my vehicle purchases over the years has been that I am looking for entertainment, fighting boredom, so I have often bought the first model year of an entirely new vehicle. This has turned out well in some cases (1990 LS400, 1994 Dodge Ram, possibly 2002 Chev Avalanche - too early to know for sure, but I am extremely impressed at 8500 miles) and very poorly in other cases (1961 Jaguar XK-E (total crap from reliability standpoint), 1955 Thunderbird (ditto), 1962 Peugeot 404 (extremely interesting vehicle but gawdawful reliability), 1988 Chevrolet C-10 (horrible), 1968 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (below average) with the all-new 472 cid engine, etc.). Notice the ratio of OK cars to crapola. So I know that the odds are not in our favor with the Hyundai. Still, we've already experienced quite a bit of entertainment, and I do like the way it drives.
Our Honda Prelude never had any failures, come to think of it, but my wife intensely "disliked it." Go figure.
Admittedly I never thought I'd own a vehicle assembled in either Mexico or Korea. So 2002 is shaping up to be a year of unusual risk taking!
The common thread on many of my vehicle purchases over the years has been that I am looking for entertainment, fighting boredom, so I have often bought the first model year of an entirely new vehicle. This has turned out well in some cases (1990 LS400, 1994 Dodge Ram, possibly 2002 Chev Avalanche - too early to know for sure, but I am extremely impressed at 8500 miles) and very poorly in other cases (1961 Jaguar XK-E (total crap from reliability standpoint), 1955 Thunderbird (ditto), 1962 Peugeot 404 (extremely interesting vehicle but gawdawful reliability), 1988 Chevrolet C-10 (horrible), 1968 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (below average) with the all-new 472 cid engine, etc.). Notice the ratio of OK cars to crapola. So I know that the odds are not in our favor with the Hyundai. Still, we've already experienced quite a bit of entertainment, and I do like the way it drives.
Our Honda Prelude never had any failures, come to think of it, but my wife intensely "disliked it." Go figure.
Admittedly I never thought I'd own a vehicle assembled in either Mexico or Korea. So 2002 is shaping up to be a year of unusual risk taking!
Last edited by ChasFenwick; 05-28-02 at 06:55 AM.
05-30-02, 06:39 PM
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Well u have owned a hella lotta more cars than me so I can say your opinon is well respected.
Ya'll are probably the first fam to go from an LS to a Hyandai!?!?
Hell to work and back, I guess I can live with that decision. She make it right, not you right
Ya'll are probably the first fam to go from an LS to a Hyandai!?!?
Hell to work and back, I guess I can live with that decision. She make it right, not you right
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05-30-02, 11:55 PM
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Yeah Hyundai has really strong aftermarket support too... RIGHT!
Ok, this is totally rediculous.
The LS400 and XG350L share very little in design or appointments.
The biggest difference is the drivetrain. One includes an excellent V8 and smooth-shifting auto tranny and rear wheel drive, while the other has a typically inneficient Korean V6 with a typically inneficient korean auto tranny and front wheel drive.
(Do you know what happens when you add horsepower to a FWD -even one with traction control- and then drive it in the snow? I'll make you a video...)
Not to mention weight distribution, etc, etc, etc.
The materials used within the interior aren't even comparable...
The difference is greater than night and day, black and white...
I'm appalled
Ok, this is totally rediculous.
The LS400 and XG350L share very little in design or appointments.
The biggest difference is the drivetrain. One includes an excellent V8 and smooth-shifting auto tranny and rear wheel drive, while the other has a typically inneficient Korean V6 with a typically inneficient korean auto tranny and front wheel drive.
(Do you know what happens when you add horsepower to a FWD -even one with traction control- and then drive it in the snow? I'll make you a video...)
Not to mention weight distribution, etc, etc, etc.
The materials used within the interior aren't even comparable...
The difference is greater than night and day, black and white...
I'm appalled
05-31-02, 04:55 AM
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"The biggest difference is the drivetrain. One includes an excellent V8 and smooth-shifting auto tranny and rear wheel drive, while the other has a typically inneficient Korean V6 with a typically inefficient korean auto tranny and front wheel drive."
You are certainly correct that the Lexus engine is excellent. But I am wondering what basis you have for labeling the Korean engine "typically inefficient." The 3.5L V-6 is new to the XG this year.
The tranny in our XG shifts every bit as smoothly as the ones in our LS's. In fact, many shifts can be seen on the tach but not heard or felt AT ALL! The logic that controls the shifting is considerably more aggressive in the XG, so much so that it has been criticised in one road test report I read, but personally I like the fact that it is trying to keep engine speed in optimum torque range. Whether all of that shifting results in premature transmission failure remains to be seen.
Reference to Lexus rear wheel drive brings back memories. I bought my first LS in Feb 1990, middle of winter here in Iowa. I quickly learned that there was no way that it could be driven on snow or ice. The traction was not terrible, it was non-existent! So for the first four winters that I owned the car, it stayed in the garage. ALL WINTER! Then I put on a set of Goodyear Aquatreads and there was a big improvement. Still, it was nowhere near as good as some of the other cars that I had owned. (The car didn't have the traction control option, but then again neither had any of my previous cars). (My drive-to-work workhorse during those years was a 2WD Chevrolet pickup truck, which would run rings around the Lexus in traction, for no apparent reason).
"(Do you know what happens when you add horsepower to a FWD -even one with traction control- and then drive it in the snow? I'll make you a video...)"
It will be a while before we learn the answer to that one. Another characteristic of the XG that has been criticised in road test reports is the unusual connection between trottle pedal and vehicle action. From stop, a small amount of depression of the pedal causes the car to literally LEAP forward, something you have to get used to if you are going to avoid rear-ending the guy in front of you. Once you become familiar with that characteristic, it can add to the fun of driving. On the other hand, I can see that it might present a problem on slippery surfaces. As of yet we haven't had the pleasure of encountering any slippery surfaces to test it on.
But problems adding horsepower to FWD, even one with traction control? Well, we had an Olds Aurora for 5 years and it did very very well on snow and ice. A real mountain goat. Didn't have traction control, if memory serves.
I guess my main point in starting this thread was to point out that the Hyundai XG seems to be an honest attempt to design something that comes across as unique, at an amazingly low price point, while at the same time borrowing judiciously and unashamedly from other manufacturers' designs that have been successful in the marketplace. By contract, several times over the years we have test driven Toyota Camrys and Avalons and come way thinking that they were simply boring, dull, plain, uninteresting. And overpriced.
Oh, and speaking of price, would you guys believe that we paid $35,000 for our new 1990 LS400? We did.
You are certainly correct that the Lexus engine is excellent. But I am wondering what basis you have for labeling the Korean engine "typically inefficient." The 3.5L V-6 is new to the XG this year.
The tranny in our XG shifts every bit as smoothly as the ones in our LS's. In fact, many shifts can be seen on the tach but not heard or felt AT ALL! The logic that controls the shifting is considerably more aggressive in the XG, so much so that it has been criticised in one road test report I read, but personally I like the fact that it is trying to keep engine speed in optimum torque range. Whether all of that shifting results in premature transmission failure remains to be seen.
Reference to Lexus rear wheel drive brings back memories. I bought my first LS in Feb 1990, middle of winter here in Iowa. I quickly learned that there was no way that it could be driven on snow or ice. The traction was not terrible, it was non-existent! So for the first four winters that I owned the car, it stayed in the garage. ALL WINTER! Then I put on a set of Goodyear Aquatreads and there was a big improvement. Still, it was nowhere near as good as some of the other cars that I had owned. (The car didn't have the traction control option, but then again neither had any of my previous cars). (My drive-to-work workhorse during those years was a 2WD Chevrolet pickup truck, which would run rings around the Lexus in traction, for no apparent reason).
"(Do you know what happens when you add horsepower to a FWD -even one with traction control- and then drive it in the snow? I'll make you a video...)"
It will be a while before we learn the answer to that one. Another characteristic of the XG that has been criticised in road test reports is the unusual connection between trottle pedal and vehicle action. From stop, a small amount of depression of the pedal causes the car to literally LEAP forward, something you have to get used to if you are going to avoid rear-ending the guy in front of you. Once you become familiar with that characteristic, it can add to the fun of driving. On the other hand, I can see that it might present a problem on slippery surfaces. As of yet we haven't had the pleasure of encountering any slippery surfaces to test it on.
But problems adding horsepower to FWD, even one with traction control? Well, we had an Olds Aurora for 5 years and it did very very well on snow and ice. A real mountain goat. Didn't have traction control, if memory serves.
I guess my main point in starting this thread was to point out that the Hyundai XG seems to be an honest attempt to design something that comes across as unique, at an amazingly low price point, while at the same time borrowing judiciously and unashamedly from other manufacturers' designs that have been successful in the marketplace. By contract, several times over the years we have test driven Toyota Camrys and Avalons and come way thinking that they were simply boring, dull, plain, uninteresting. And overpriced.
Oh, and speaking of price, would you guys believe that we paid $35,000 for our new 1990 LS400? We did.
05-31-02, 07:47 AM
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When the yen was favorable back in 89 and Toyota wanted to make a SPLASH with Lexus, they really did it with the 35k price for the LS 400 or SC series cars. INCREDIBLE.
Automobile magazine did a 25k comparo vs the new Benz Hatchback vs the Hyandai XG whatver.
The Hyandai won, they said it basically was a better overall car than the Benz, not as fun to drive but so what.
I am getting a lil annoyed with these non-luxury cars with luxury car names though. Hyandai XG 350, Altima 2.5, or 3.5, WTF!?!?!?
Automobile magazine did a 25k comparo vs the new Benz Hatchback vs the Hyandai XG whatver.
The Hyandai won, they said it basically was a better overall car than the Benz, not as fun to drive but so what.
I am getting a lil annoyed with these non-luxury cars with luxury car names though. Hyandai XG 350, Altima 2.5, or 3.5, WTF!?!?!?
05-31-02, 08:13 AM
#11
Chas:
All kidding aside, you do have a point.
If Hyundai can make a car even remotely like a LS, and sell it for $25,000 they should be congratulated. Unfortunately, the temptation for those of us who are fortunate enough to have enough surplus money to buy a fine auto like a Lexus is to look down on anything that costs less (witness the vitriol on the Mercedes Benz bulletin boards anytime Lexus is mentioned...).
I really appreciate my LS. It is clearly better than my old Crown Vic, but I can't honestly say that it is twice as good, although it costs twice as much. There are cars that are very good which, although inferior to the LS are very good, at least in the same league: Lincoln LS, Cadillac, Crown Vic, Avalon, and from your recommendation the Hyundai XG. For half the money, if price is any object,its hard to criticize someone...
All kidding aside, you do have a point.
If Hyundai can make a car even remotely like a LS, and sell it for $25,000 they should be congratulated. Unfortunately, the temptation for those of us who are fortunate enough to have enough surplus money to buy a fine auto like a Lexus is to look down on anything that costs less (witness the vitriol on the Mercedes Benz bulletin boards anytime Lexus is mentioned...).
I really appreciate my LS. It is clearly better than my old Crown Vic, but I can't honestly say that it is twice as good, although it costs twice as much. There are cars that are very good which, although inferior to the LS are very good, at least in the same league: Lincoln LS, Cadillac, Crown Vic, Avalon, and from your recommendation the Hyundai XG. For half the money, if price is any object,its hard to criticize someone...
06-04-02, 03:17 PM
#14
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
I have three rear-wheel drive cars........winter is nothing nice in Chicago and i get around just fine. you just have to know how to handle these cars. oh and as with everything we buy......you get what you pay for!
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