Neofate

iTrader: (1)

I just purchased my 1994 LS 400. It came from a master mechanic who did a host of maintenance major and minor on it before I picked it up.

Of those things was a Power Steering leak. He replaced the Rack and Pinion to alleviate the leak.

It has only been 3 days since pick up, but the PS fluid is still full.

However it is presenting an odd problem, which is hard to describe:

A) At a standstill, brake on or in Park -- The car will make a dull not high pitched, sound when moving the steering wheel back and forth. It does not sound like your typical high pitch PS problem,.. but sounds like the brake pads skimming the surface of the rotors, but turn that sound into a dull/muffled sound and that is what is occuring. *Edit: I just went out on a cold start and turned the wheel back and forth and it made no noise. -- So I drove it for about 10 minutes then stopped and turned it and the noise was definitely there. I was listening trying to think of a way to describe it to you guys. It sounds more like the car is 'moaning'. Not high pitched,.. very audible, and only at speeds of less than 3mph and at a complete stop. You can almost imagine the pump working hard at that basicly idle speed, and when you are moving at normal speed the pulley's are turning faster and it is effortless. Hope that helps.


B) The steering is perfect when driving, and does not make any sound at speed.

C) The PS pump has not been replaced

D) The Rack and Pinion has.

E) I believe it will make this noise at VERY slow speeds, like 1-5Mph. (Dull/low moaning noise -- Like the system is being strained)

F) Occaisonally at this low speed it will be a bit harder to turn the wheel, but again, anything 2-3Mph and faster is smooth as butter with no noise whatsoever. (On cold start , it does not make the noise until you let it heat up)

G) Looking at the pulleys when the engine is running. The PS Pump pulley wobbles a little. In constrast to every other pulley on the drive belt, the other pully's are 100% perfectly balanced, and show absolutely no signs of 'wobbling' aside from the PS Pump.

H) So far, (3 days), the PS fluid in resevoir has gone unchanged.

The mechanic said he sold the car with the PS working perfectly, so if it presents problems to bring it back and he will put on a new PS pump for no charge. So I can get this fixed free -- I am just trying to determine if it is the PS pump, or what else this might be.

I do not want to bring it up to him if I am not 100% sure it is simply, a problem of a new PS pump needs to be installed.

Thanks !

Sixdown

The one time i heard the low moaning noise at standstill or low speeds was when i turned the wheel back and forth. It turned out to be my PS pump, and it eventually started to leak. A lot of old pumps will moan and not show signs of leaking. My old Volvo's PS did the same and ran years with no problems.

If it isnt the PS, then I'm not sure. Best wait on expert opinions.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Great -- I am actually HOPING this is the PS Pump. Because he , the mechanic, specifically mentioned he wouldn't have a problem buying a new pump and quickly replacing it for free. Given the location of it, it wouldn't take him long to do it. I believe I could bring it in, and just walk over to another store for an hour and he could get it finished.

If that is, indeed, the problem.

So I will wait for other opinions, but I do appreciate yours. Man I hope this is the PS Pump. Judging by the noise, I am not sure what else it could possibly be.

Thanks,

Sixdown

Yeah, the PS pump is the cheapest bet if the whinning noise is getting worse. $200-400 depending on where you get it. The dealer wanted $400 for a new OEM one, and online there are some going for $200.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Hrmm -- Any sort of test or whatnot to ensure it IS my PS pump?

Cause if it is the PS pump, it is a free fix for me. Would be nice, because then the car would be basically perfect mechanically.

bigste

I would do this to see if the PAS pulley shaft is knackered. Get at 14mm wrench on the tensioner pulley of the serpentine belt. that is the one next to the PAS pulley. Pull the wrench anti clockwise, this takes the tension off the belt. With the tension eased off check for play in the PAS pulley. You say the pulley looks like its wobbling. It should not have a wobble, it should run perfectly true so I suspect the PAS bearing is knackered. Doing this test should show no play at all, if it does it's goosed.

shern

iTrader: (6)

Apologies but this has been discussed about 5000 times.

To make a long story short:
1) drain and flush fluid with air
2) clean the reservoir filter
3) clean the selenoid filter screen (on the rack)
4) refill and bleed

If that doesn't work, get a new pump. If you're getting a new pump, ensure you clean both filters and flush with air.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

I am assuming PAS = Power steering pump (and all that goes with it/pulley etc).

So loosen the tensioner and wiggle the pulley on the PS pump? Or should I spin it?

Of course it should spin freely right? Or no?

What exactly am I looking for , 'playwise' .. Like the pulley wheel moving side to side or up and down.. Or it being able to spin or 'not spin' whatever the case should be..?

Thanks for the test -- I will do that today once this is answered.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Just about everything has been discussed many MANY times.. I have searched, but it still doesn't specifically describe 'my' specific problem. Usually there is leaking, or high screeching noise.. and so on.

Anyhow -- The PS fluid has just been changed less than 60 miles ago. I should drain and flush again? (I didn't do it).

For all the rest I will have to find whatever post has all these 'DIY' guides in it and go at it.

I just figured the way it is acting.. At a dead stop, engine on, it makes a noise (as described above) constantly when turning the wheel from side to side. I mean I could play jingle bells with the wheel if I wanted to, it is that predictable.

So I figured that would be some dead give away symptom of , Yes without a doubt this is the problem.

Though you seem to think I can clean some filters, flush some fluids, and my noise will go away? The wobble in the pulley isn't indicative of anything really?

I don't doubt you, just curious. (I've read about 23 threads on the PS and its problems.. so I'm not posting this without doing my homework).

Even if you do post on a subject that has been discussed before (It is sort of hard not to given the length , popularity, and scope of this forum) -- Some people have to tell you the obvious , that it has been spoken about before, and to SEARCH. They assume you logged in, and just posted your problem like you were the first one in the world to have the problem.

That really bugs some people (I'm ok with it.. I understand it bugs the snot of some of you guys..) -- But in speaking with several people in email and PM's they have mentioned how some specific people will bite your neck off if you don't figure something out before you ask the question

Sorry, this isn't directed at you Shern,.. Just letting the world know , Yes I have researched this! I still am..

If any of you have answered one too many PS questions in your lifetime, just ignore the thread. I assure you , telling me it isn't a new topic, or that there is this rich feature called 'search' is going to help me at this point.

Hehe.. For all you that are trying to help out. It is more appreciated than you know.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

If the car just had a new rack and pinion installed 3 days ago,.. Would this filter screen still be dirty? -- I assume it would be since that is in my Original post.. Just wanted to verify.

Gracious

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

I posted this exact message in the Power Steering Bible, but it is a sticky so not sure how much attention it would get -- So just updating my original thread to try and get any more opinions on the matter.

---------

My Power Steering problem is a mystery to me. I've read all of this thread, and asked others.. still dont' have a definite answer.

Here is the short of it:

Problem currently: -- There is a 'dull' moaning/straining sound that is not high pitched when I turn the steering wheel either when the car is at a complete stop, or going under 2Mph. After I get 'rolling' basically (engine revved up more than idle) it makes no noise. During this time when it is making this noise the steering wheel is harder to turn.

Of interest: -- This does NOT occur on a complete cold start. It takes it a few minutes at least to start doing this. Then from there on out it will do it constantly at stop lights or such.

Also of interest: -- The PS fluid is not leaking (reservoir is full).

The mechanic has replaced the Rack and Pinion to alleviate the Power Steering leak it had before. So it doesn't leak, but it makes this noise at a dead stop when turning the wheel, and is harder to turn the wheel at a dead stop.

Also of interest: The pulley that drives the PS Pump wobbles a little in comparison to the other pulleys. (Others don't move at all.. perfect rotation).

That about covers any aspect I can think of.

So my question is:

With all of those characteristics does this point to any one thing?

IE: Yup, you've replaced the Rack, it makes that noise and is hard to turn wheel at dead stop, it is definitely a bad pump. Replace your PS pump and the noise will go away and it will be easy to turn wheel at a stand still.

Or whatever you think these clues lead to.

I just don't want to replace the PS pump if that isn't the problem. It sure seems like it would be, but my problem isn't like any I've read about thus far.. If I had a leak it would be more obvious, but I don't anymore.

Thanks

bigste

After reading several of your posts I'd say there can only be 2 faults on this system. First as the pump is not leaking it should be perfect. If not it either has air in the system or the pump is worn out. Can't see anything else. Getting the air out can be a pig. There are several posts on this but in my case the only way was to jack up the front and move the road wheels from end to end maybe as much as 50 times. That was the only way I could do it. I think it is unlikely that the pump is goosed. Also regarding the pulley, there should be no play in the shaft, if there is there's lies the fault. Patience is a vitrue and you needs lots of it sometimes or you can spend money like drinking water.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Hrmm..

A non leaking pump = perfect? A wobbling pully is part of that pump,.. Are you saying that the 'wobble' could be causing my issue? So if so, don't get a new pump, but fix the pulley? (How would I go about this) -- Or is it built into the pump housing? AKA: If I got a new PS pump it comes with the pulley attached?

I am heading to adv auto parts now to take back these Bosch spark plugs because everyone says use NGK or Denso's.. that these Bosch Iridium plugs will make my car run like heck.. (I don't get it, but the spark is pretty important, so I'll heed the advice) -- Anyhow my point is I am going to be picking up a new air filter (non-K&N becaues of the MAF problems).. and a new Serpentine belt.

The one I have has cracks in the ribs (which is ok according to the repair manual) But is still wise to replace.

So while I am replacing the Serpentine belt today I will have the perfect opportunity between belts to wiggle that PS pump pulley without tension on it.

Accoridng to others it should not move at all (other than I suppose in a rotary motion) -- So if there is play in there in any other manner (which I suspect because it is WOBBLING hehe) then that is a problem.

However, is this slight wobble probably the cause of the noise and 'harder effort at the complete stop?" -- or is it just another problem that is unrelated?

As I said earlier,.. can just this pulley part be fixed on the pump I have? Is it wise to do that, or just get another pump?

**I forgot about the air trick. Turning the wheels -- But you have to do it jacked up? Is that to keep strain off the system and tires? Or does it serve some other purpose?

Tommyboy72

If the other poster is right and the bearing that holds the shaft for the pulley is going this would explain the behavior.

As for bleeding, yes you put the front end in the air and turn the wheel lock to lock slowly with the car running and the reservoir cap off. A lot of people believe its best not to quite touch the lock at the end of each direction for fear of cavitation creating more air bubbles. I've done this with the ever fun to bleed early model 4runners. On those, usually the sign it needs to be bled is a substantial effort to turn the wheel.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

So if the bearing is bad, then that could be all that is required to fix this? Can I fix simply the shaft bearing to stop the wobble on the pulley and the noise and 'hard to turn' will cease?


Would this be a pump rebuild? Also would a new pump automatically alleviate this because the bearing/shaft and pulley are all included in a new pump?